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Some prominent pushback on the 24-team playoff

18IsTheMan

18IsTheMan

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Being reported today that ESPN is not in favor of it. They would prefer to stay at 12 or 14....16 max. Of course, more rounds of games means more money to pay out.

It sounds like the big proponents are the ACC and Big 12, which isn't surprising as they are the weaker conferences and want their teams to get a piece of the pie.

The SEC is also not in favor. The Big 10, reportedly, is.

How this goes will likely signal where the power lies in college football. Is the SEC still the big dog, or have they been chased off by the Big 10?
 
Harvard Gamecock

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18IsTheMan said:
Being reported today that ESPN is not in favor of it. They would prefer to stay at 12 or 14....16 max. Of course, more rounds of games means more money to pay out.

It sounds like the big proponents are the ACC and Big 12, which isn't surprising as they are the weaker conferences and want their teams to get a piece of the pie.

The SEC is also not in favor. The Big 10, reportedly, is.

How this goes will likely signal where the power lies in college football. Is the SEC still the big dog, or have they been chased off by the Big 10?
Click to expand...
B1G is definitely not only in favor put pushing for the 24 team format, and will agree to 16 teams intially but only for the purpose to ending eventually at 24.
https://www.espn.com/college-footba...eyes-24-team-cfp-no-league-championship-games

This is going to rub some on here the wrong way, but it sure looks like the B1G is the current top dog.
 
18IsTheMan

18IsTheMan

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Harvard Gamecock said:
B1G is definitely not only in favor put pushing for the 24 team format, and will agree to 16 teams intially but only for the purpose to ending eventually at 24.
https://www.espn.com/college-footba...eyes-24-team-cfp-no-league-championship-games

This is going to rub some on here the wrong way, but it sure looks like the B1G is the current top dog.
Click to expand...
I don't really think there's much debate the Big 10 has edged their way to the top. The SEC is still pretty successfully clinging to its brand power for whatever weight they can throw around. In spite of its decline, the SEC is still viewed by many to "still be the SEC". If the Big 10 gets their way on this, it'll signal clearly that the SEC is #2.
 
Harvard Gamecock

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18IsTheMan said:
I don't really think there's much debate the Big 10 has edged their way to the top. The SEC is still pretty successfully clinging to its brand power for whatever weight they can throw around. In spite of its decline, the SEC is still viewed by many to "still be the SEC". If the Big 10 gets their way on this, it'll signal clearly that the SEC is #2.
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No argument on that point.
 
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Piscis

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Harvard Gamecock said:
B1G is definitely not only in favor put pushing for the 24 team format, and will agree to 16 teams intially but only for the purpose to ending eventually at 24.
https://www.espn.com/college-footba...eyes-24-team-cfp-no-league-championship-games

This is going to rub some on here the wrong way, but it sure looks like the B1G is the current top dog.
Click to expand...
The B1G and the SEC are both very top heavy. Both have two or three teams that are head and shoulders above the rest of the conference. The difference is, the B1G has a lot more money and has 18 teams to the SEC's 16. Now that money pretty well rules college football, the B1G is definitely top dog.

I could see the SEC, ACC and Big XII forming an alliance of sorts to blunt the power of the B1G in controlling the CFP.
 
18IsTheMan

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Piscis said:
The B1G and the SEC are both very top heavy. Both have two or three teams that are head and shoulders above the rest of the conference. The difference is, the B1G has a lot more money and has 18 teams to the SEC's 16. Now that money pretty well rules college football, the B1G is definitely top dog.

I could see the SEC, ACC and Big XII forming an alliance of sorts to blunt the power of the B1G in controlling the CFP.
Click to expand...
That would be most damning indictment if the SEC needed to team up with the ACC and Big 12 fight off the Big 10. You're not wrong, though.
 
Uscg1984

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As much as playoff expansion means more money for ESPN, it also expands their NFL problem. Expansion means a lot more early-round games to juggle on the schedule so they don't directly compete with those Saturday NFL games. The 12-team format allows ESPN to sell a couple of games to TNT and mostly avoid the problem, but many more than that becomes tough to fit on the calendar.
 
Harvard Gamecock

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18IsTheMan said:
Being reported today that ESPN is not in favor of it. They would prefer to stay at 12 or 14....16 max. Of course, more rounds of games means more money to pay out.

I
Click to expand...
Well now we know why ESPN is against CFP expansion. Hint: it has nothing to do with the sanctity of CFB.

ESPN holds exclusive rights to the CFP up to a 14-team format, a part of which is sublicensed to TNT. Meanwhile, Fox Sports and the Big Ten have endorsed an expanded postseason, even up to 28 teams.
https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/espn-pushing-back-against-proposed-194333943.html

Add more games and Fox Sports get some of the action.
 
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will110

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18IsTheMan said:
Being reported today that ESPN is not in favor of it. They would prefer to stay at 12 or 14....16 max. Of course, more rounds of games means more money to pay out.

It sounds like the big proponents are the ACC and Big 12, which isn't surprising as they are the weaker conferences and want their teams to get a piece of the pie.

The SEC is also not in favor. The Big 10, reportedly, is.

How this goes will likely signal where the power lies in college football. Is the SEC still the big dog, or have they been chased off by the Big 10?
Click to expand...
My understanding is that ESPN only has exclusive rights to a 14 team playoff. So any expansion beyond that puts those additional games on the open market. Of course the B1G is in favor of that because their main media partner is FOX.

If ESPN had the rights to expansion they'd probably be in favor of it.

Edit: I see that @Harvard Gamecock beat me to this information.
 
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Harvard Gamecock

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will110 said:
My understanding is that ESPN only has exclusive rights to a 14 team playoff. So any expansion beyond that puts those additional games on the open market. Of course the B1G is in favor of that because their main media partner is FOX.

If ESPN had the rights to expansion they'd probably be in favor of it.

Edit: I see that @Harvard Gamecock beat me to this information.
Click to expand...
Of this I have no doubt.
 
atl-cock

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18IsTheMan said:
I don't really think there's much debate the Big 10 has edged their way to the top. The SEC is still pretty successfully clinging to its brand power for whatever weight they can throw around. In spite of its decline, the SEC is still viewed by many to "still be the SEC". If the Big 10 gets their way on this, it'll signal clearly that the SEC is #2.
Click to expand...
IMO, the B1G edging occurred by adding west coast schools to the conference. I'm not keen on expansion.
 
18IsTheMan

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Here's the insanity of the 24-team CFP: it would be 5 rounds of games. You're talking about teams who play 12 regular season games playing almost an additional half season. NFL only has 4 rounds.

No matter how you look at, it's insane. You will very likely see a team who lost 4 regular season games getting a shot at 5 more games. Lunacy. I also think it's insane to tell a team who went 12-0 that they have to win 4 more games (with a bye).

The regular season, truly, would mean nothing whatsoever. There would be a little bit of playing for seeding, but we've seen there hasn't been much advantage to having a bye.

You will definitely have players opt out if their team happens to be a low seed and they are longshots to win it all. We will have gone from players opting out b/c their team didn't make the CFP to players opting out b/c their team wasn't a high enough seed in the CFP.
 
atl-cock

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18IsTheMan said:
Here's the insanity of the 24-team CFP: it would be 5 rounds of games. You're talking about teams who play 12 regular season games playing almost an additional half season. NFL only has 4 rounds.

No matter how you look at, it's insane. You will very likely see a team who lost 4 regular season games getting a shot at 5 more games. Lunacy. I also think it's insane to tell a team who went 12-0 that they have to win 4 more games (with a bye).

The regular season, truly, would mean nothing whatsoever. There would be a little bit of playing for seeding, but we've seen there hasn't been much advantage to having a bye.

You will definitely have players opt out if their team happens to be a low seed and they are longshots to win it all. We will have gone from players opting out b/c their team didn't make the CFP to players opting out b/c their team wasn't a high enough seed in the CFP.
Click to expand...

FCS now has 12 regular season games with a 24-team bracket.
 
18IsTheMan

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atl-cock said:
FCS now has 12 regular season games with a 24-team bracket.
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I know. People always mention that. Part of the problem is that FCS doesn't really matter, though. And just b/c they are doing it doesn't mean it's the right format for major college football.
 
atl-cock

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18IsTheMan said:
I know. People always mention that. Part of the problem is that FCS doesn't really matter, though. And just b/c they are doing it doesn't mean it's the right format for major college football.
Click to expand...

Of course it matters to all involved. You don't have to like/follow it. And if it doesn't matter to you (and many others) that's okay too.

If FBS is becoming a professional minor league, then sure, tweak it. Drop requirements to attend class. etc.
 
atl-cock

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18IsTheMan said:
Maybe there's a trend. The lower quality, the larger playoff you have.
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I imagine that there are those enrolled in D-II & D-III who are quite talented, but don't have the size to compete in D-I. Or they want to play multiple sports, and no D-I school they've been in contact with would agree to it.
 
18IsTheMan

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atl-cock said:
Of course it matters to all involved. You don't have to like/follow it. And if it doesn't matter to you (and many others) that's okay too.

If FBS is becoming a professional minor league, then sure, tweak it. Drop requirements to attend class. etc.
Click to expand...
If FCS mattered, the games would be widely televised.

"Matter" in today's climate means revenue. Of course, I think FCS more closely adheres to the student athlete model, but the student athlete model, sadly, also does not matter.
 
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atl-cock said:
If FBS is becoming a professional minor league, then sure, tweak it. Drop requirements to attend class. etc.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. I think college players, especially at the P4 level, should just be employees and let them pay to go to school like most other students if they want to.
 
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adcoop

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atl-cock said:
I imagine that there are those enrolled in D-II & D-III who are quite talented, but don't have the size to compete in D-I. Or they want to play multiple sports, and no D-I school they've been in contact with would agree to it.
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That's part of it. You, also, have guys that have dropped down to D-II due to bad portal decisions, discipline problems, and poor high school transcripts that D-1 schools wouldn't touch. My son will be in his last year of D-II football coming up. You will often see 2-3 guys on a team that make you question "what is he doing here. Can't speak for D-III, but that is my two cents based on my experience for the last 3 years.
 
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adcoop

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18IsTheMan said:
If FCS mattered, the games would be widely televised.

"Matter" in today's climate means revenue. Of course, I think FCS more closely adheres to the student athlete model, but the student athlete model, sadly, also does not matter.
Click to expand...
Actually, the games are widely televised. You can see whatever FCS game you want on ESPN Unlimited and the playoffs games get on the main channels. There is another network, FLO TV that televises the games that ESPN doesn't pick up. Even the D-II schools have Apps that you can watch their games on. Doesn't matter as much as the D-1 programs, but you can see almost any game you want these days.
 
atl-cock

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adcoop said:
That's part of it. You, also, have guys that have dropped down to D-II due to bad portal decisions, discipline problems, and poor high school transcripts that D-1 schools wouldn't touch. My son will be in his last year of D-II football coming up. You will often see 2-3 guys on a team that make you question what he is doing here. Can't speak for D-III, but that is my two cents based on my experience for the last 3 years.
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Thanks for sharing those insights re: D-II programs.

I imagine there are some D-II schools who would touch poor HS transcripts as well.

I was under the impression that academic requirements transcend the NCAA divisions. Am I wrong?
 
atl-cock

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adcoop said:
Actually, the games are widely televised. You can see whatever FCS game you want on ESPN Unlimited and the playoffs games get on the main channels. There is another network, FLO TV that televises the games that ESPN doesn't pick up. Even the D-II schools have Apps that you can watch their games on. Doesn't matter as much as the D-1 programs, but you can see almost any game you want these days.
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I've seen regular-season livestream of D-III men's basketball games. Merely augmenting the above.
 
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adcoop

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atl-cock said:
Thanks for sharing those insights re: D-II programs.

I imagine there are some D-II schools who would touch poor HS transcripts as well.

I was under the impression that academic requirements transcend the NCAA divisions. Am I wrong?
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There are NCAA standards, but schools have standards that vary. For example, South Carolina rejected a couple of guys over the years that Tennessee admitted. The D-II schools and lower need bodies. So, there are going to be more lenient in their admittance decisions.
 
Lurker123

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Harvard Gamecock said:
Well now we know why ESPN is against CFP expansion. Hint: it has nothing to do with the sanctity of CFB.

ESPN holds exclusive rights to the CFP up to a 14-team format, a part of which is sublicensed to TNT. Meanwhile, Fox Sports and the Big Ten have endorsed an expanded postseason, even up to 28 teams.
https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/espn-pushing-back-against-proposed-194333943.html

Add more games and Fox Sports get some of the action.
Click to expand...

I had no idea that was in the contract. And it does explain a lot.
 
atl-cock

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adcoop said:
There are NCAA standards, but schools have standards that vary. For example, South Carolina rejected a couple of guys over the years that Tennessee admitted. The DI see exception-II schools and lower need bodies. So, there are going to be more lenient in their admittance decisions.
Click to expand...
Do you see a difference depending on the sport?
 
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Piscis

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adcoop said:
I agree with this. I think college players, especially at the P4 level, should just be employees and let them pay to go to school like most other students if they want to.
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At that point, it is no longer college football, it is purely a pro league. If they don't have to be students, they shouldn't have any eligibility limits. An employee should be able to do his job for as long as his employer deems him worthy of continued employment. Would the schools rent the stadium to the pro football team? Would the team pay royalties to the school for naming rights? Why would any of them pay to go to school if they didn't have to be students and were making 6 or 7 figures a year being a football player?

FWIW; I would have zero interest in that sort of league.
 
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adcoop

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Piscis said:
At that point, it is no longer college football, it is purely a pro league. If they don't have to be students, they shouldn't have any eligibility limits. An employee should be able to do his job for as long as his employer deems him worthy of continued employment. Would the schools rent the stadium to the pro football team? Would the team pay royalties to the school for naming rights? Why would any of them pay to go to school if they didn't have to be students and were making 6 or 7 figures a year being a football player?

FWIW; I would have zero interest in that sort of league.
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It's basically that now. There are a few exceptions, but the football players haven't been real students at Power 4 Programs dating back to the 80's when I was in school. I won't go into details because the NCAA finds a way to put schools like South Carolina on probation. However, it's been a sham for decades. I just advocate to stop with the pretense and let it be a semi-pro version of the sport which it already is.
 
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Piscis

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adcoop said:
It's basically that now. There are a few exceptions, but the football players haven't been real students at Power 4 Programs dating back to the 80's when I was in school. I won't go into details because the NCAA finds a way to put schools like South Carolina on probation. However, it's been a sham for decades. I just advocate to stop with the pretense and let it be a semi-pro version of the sport which it already is.
Click to expand...
My opinion is to go the other direction and strengthen the "student" part of the equation. Make athletes be admitted to the school through regular admission channels before they can be given a scholarship or any NIL money. Do away with the special dorms, dining facilities, athlete lounges, tutors, etc. that are only available to athletes. Make all of those facilities and resources available to all students at no additional charge or do away with them completely. Require all athletes to take a course load that qualifies them as full time students at all times or they lose eligibility.

If I want to watch pro sports, I can watch the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, etc..
 
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adcoop

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Piscis said:
My opinion is to go the other direction and strengthen the "student" part of the equation. Make athletes be admitted to the school through regular admission channels before they can be given a scholarship or any NIL money. Do away with the special dorms, dining facilities, athlete lounges, tutors, etc. that are only available to athletes. Make all of those facilities and resources available to all students at no additional charge or do away with them completely. Require all athletes to take a course load that qualifies them as full time students at all times or they lose eligibility.

If I want to watch pro sports, I can watch the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, etc..
Click to expand...
That's not going to happen because most of the top players can't be admitted under standards that apply to the normal, everyday student. It's basically DEI for sports. All the values that many proclaim to have go out the window when it comes to the revenue making sports.
 
atl-cock

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Piscis said:
My opinion is to go the other direction and strengthen the "student" part of the equation. Make athletes be admitted to the school through regular admission channels before they can be given a scholarship or any NIL money. Do away with the special dorms, dining facilities, athlete lounges, tutors, etc. that are only available to athletes. Make all of those facilities and resources available to all students at no additional charge or do away with them completely. Require all athletes to take a course load that qualifies them as full time students at all times or they lose eligibility.

If I want to watch pro sports, I can watch the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, etc..
Click to expand...
And have to have a 3.0 or better GPA. Anything less, you need to spend more time on the books and less on the field, pitch, court, etc.
 
atl-cock

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adcoop said:
That's not going to happen because most of the top players can't be admitted under standards that apply to the normal, everyday student. It's basically DEI for sports. All the values that many proclaim to have go out the window when it comes to the revenue making sports.
Click to expand...
They still have to qualify on the baseline standards, which may not ordinarily be enough to get the average graduate of, say Colleton Country High School admitted (no, I'm not picking on Walterboro, just using it as a potential example) who can't bring something additional to the table..
 
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adcoop

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atl-cock said:
They still have to qualify on the baseline standards, which may not ordinarily be enough to get the average graduate of, say Colleton Country High School admitted (no, I'm not picking on Walterboro, just using it as a potential example) who can't bring something additional to the table..
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They get waivers for the guys they really want to have. For example, Spurrier went through all kinds of hoops to get Clowney in school. Now, a 3* star will get rejected and will have to find another school to take him, but a way will be found to get those top line guys in school.
 
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Lurker123

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atl-cock said:
They still have to qualify on the baseline standards, which may not ordinarily be enough to get the average graduate of, say Colleton Country High School admitted (no, I'm not picking on Walterboro, just using it as a potential example) who can't bring something additional to the table..
Click to expand...

For athletes, we'll find a way. Holtz used to love the "learning disability" label.
 
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