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College sports isn’t broken. Duke just proved it’s for sale

PrestonyteParrot

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Not much of a USA Today fan, but this is one of their few true headlines.

Duke, Amazon deal doesn't compare to Ohio State hitting open market

''This money grab began with coaches and moved to players, who were finally rewarded for their critical role in the game. It will eventually move to universities, who can no longer carry the load for those who can’t carry for themselves.''
 
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18IsTheMan

18IsTheMan

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It is rapidly setting up a scenario where the upper elite will command their own ultra-millions media rights deals and be able to buy up every desirable player. The rest, including us, will be scrounging for the scraps with whatever might remain from media money, if anything. Once these teams can get their own media rights deals, kiss the conferences goodbye. Maybe kiss Gamecock football goodbye as well.
 
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Piscis

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PrestonyteParrot said:
Not much of a USA Today fan, but this is one of their few true headlines.

Duke, Amazon deal doesn't compare to Ohio State hitting open market

''This money grab began with coaches and moved to players, who were finally rewarded for their critical role in the game. It will eventually move to universities, who can no longer carry the load for those who can’t carry for themselves.''
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I'm disgusted by the contention that until players started getting NIL money, they were not rewarded in any way for playing. The scholarships, meals, housing, trainers, tutors, etc. were definitely rewards for playing.

Once the schools, teams, players, etc. start getting media money, will fans be able to stop "donating" to be able to buy tickets? Pro sports teams don't require ticket buyers to "donate" to the player's and coach's salaries. Fans simply pay for tickets to the games.
 
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18IsTheMan

18IsTheMan

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The article makes a good point if a team like OSU should pursue something similar. Is the Big 10 going to kick out OSU?

The conferences will be fighting for their very survival once the top dogs in each conference can strike out their own for media rights far more lucrative than what they are getting via the conference.

I said a long time ago here that it wouldn't be long before the Alabama's of the world no longer wanted to share revenue with the likes of us. I made that comment in the context of unequal revenue sharing. However, this would just be another way of going about it. What kind of media rights deal do you think the SEC could command if even just Bama and UGA got their own deals?
 
18IsTheMan

18IsTheMan

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Piscis said:
I'm disgusted by the contention that until players started getting NIL money, they were not rewarded in any way for playing. The scholarships, meals, housing, trainers, tutors, etc. were definitely rewards for playing.

Once the schools, teams, players, etc. start getting media money, will fans be able to stop "donating" to be able to buy tickets? Pro sports teams don't require ticket buyers to "donate" to the player's and coach's salaries. Fans simply pay for tickets to the games.
Click to expand...
Yes, players were rewarded very handsomely for their efforts before NIL.

However, the article is correct in noting that coaches started the money grab. Had coaches not started signing megamillion contracts, all of this would likely have taken a very different trajectory.
 
Lurker123

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18IsTheMan said:
The article makes a good point if a team like OSU should pursue something similar. Is the Big 10 going to kick out OSU?

The conferences will be fighting for their very survival once the top dogs in each conference can strike out their own for media rights far more lucrative than what they are getting via the conference.

I said a long time ago here that it wouldn't be long before the Alabama's of the world no longer wanted to share revenue with the likes of us. I made that comment in the context of unequal revenue sharing. However, this would just be another way of going about it. What kind of media rights deal do you think the SEC could command if even just Bama and UGA got their own deals?
Click to expand...

There is no doubt in my mind that the "haves" are going to start pushing us "have nots" to the sidelines.

But media rights are hard to sell. Duke did this because of ooc, nuetral site games. The conferences still own the media rights of their member teams.

There will have to be sone legal shenanigans before OSU could start shopping the rights to their conference games around.
 
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Piscis

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18IsTheMan said:
Yes, players were rewarded very handsomely for their efforts before NIL.

However, the article is correct in noting that coaches started the money grab. Had coaches not started signing megamillion contracts, all of this would likely have taken a very different trajectory.
Click to expand...
The athletic associations started offering stupid money to coaches with Alabama leading the way with Saban. I remember when they first hired Saban and paid him $4million a year. Everyone thought they had lost their minds. Once he started dominating college football, other programs started throwing money at coaches they thought were going to be the next Saban. I can't blame the coaches for taking the money offered to them.

Until schools start dropping football as a sport (and maybe basketball), there really isn't anything to slow down the arms race. The tipping point is going to be when fans of the "also ran" programs refuse to continue to spend big money to watch their teams struggle against the top tier teams they have to face.
 
PrestonyteParrot

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Currently, the term ''legal system'' is a misnomer as the decisions seem to have little to do with the law and culprits are viewed as victims.
So, it's anyone's guess as to the eventual outcome of this bidding for the big dogs.
 
P

Piscis

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Lurker123 said:
There is no doubt in my mind that the "haves" are going to start pushing us "have nots" to the sidelines.

But media rights are hard to sell. Duke did this because of ooc, nuetral site games. The conferences still own the media rights of their member teams.

There will have to be sone legal shenanigans before OSU could start shopping the rights to their conference games around.
Click to expand...
True, but teams are already playing more neutral site games than ever before because of money. UGA plays UF in Jacksonville every year and always seems to be playing someone in Atlanta, Clemson always seems to be playing a game in Atlanta against an OOC opponent, Texas and OU play in Dallas (a conference game now, but hasn't been). The "haves' will find it easy to schedule neutral site/OOC games if the money is right. When two of the "haves" schedule an OOC game at a neutral site, the media will pay big.

I don't see a huge media deal for South Carolina scheduling a game with anyone OOC. There simply isn't enough national interest in South Carolina.
 
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Harvard Gamecock

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18IsTheMan said:
And Miami spent $12 million for Mensah?
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It is a structured contract, so there is a base amount, then incentives, and based on 2 years of play.
Only after 2 years and all incentives would have to be met, that amount of 12 million if accurate would have to be paid.
 
Harvard Gamecock

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Lurker123 said:
There is no doubt in my mind that the "haves" are going to start pushing us "have nots" to the sidelines.

But media rights are hard to sell. Duke did this because of ooc, nuetral site games. The conferences still own the media rights of their member teams.

There will have to be sone legal shenanigans before OSU could start shopping the rights to their conference games around.
Click to expand...
I can see this playing our sooner than later. 5 years looks to be on the horizon.
What the landscape will look like is anyone's guess.
 
18IsTheMan

18IsTheMan

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Harvard Gamecock said:
It is a structured contract, so there is a base amount, then incentives, and based on 2 years of play.
Only after 2 years and all incentives would have to be met, that amount of 12 million if accurate would have to be paid.
Click to expand...
If you're paying $12 million for one player and don't win a title, what was it all for?
 
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18IsTheMan

18IsTheMan

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Lurker123 said:
There is no doubt in my mind that the "haves" are going to start pushing us "have nots" to the sidelines.

But media rights are hard to sell. Duke did this because of ooc, nuetral site games. The conferences still own the media rights of their member teams.

There will have to be sone legal shenanigans before OSU could start shopping the rights to their conference games around.
Click to expand...
Honestly, what value would you place on USC football media rights?

If not for SEC revenue we get, where would we be financially?
 
P

Piscis

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18IsTheMan said:
Honestly, what value would you place on USC football media rights?

If not for SEC revenue we get, where would we be financially?
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If not for SEC money, SC football would probably be on par with most G5 programs financially. After 2024-25, SC received $72million from the SEC. The total athletic revenue was around $160million. The loss of SEC money would put us below USF and Tulane in athletic revenue.

I don't see any way SC media rights could be sold for $70million if we were independent.
 
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atl-cock

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18IsTheMan said:
It is rapidly setting up a scenario where the upper elite will command their own ultra-millions media rights deals and be able to buy up every desirable player. The rest, including us, will be scrounging for the scraps with whatever might remain from media money, if anything. Once these teams can get their own media rights deals, kiss the conferences goodbye. Maybe kiss Gamecock football goodbye as well.
Click to expand...
Teams or schools?
 
Harvard Gamecock

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Piscis said:
Or Michigan with Underwood, or Miami with Beck. One player isn't going to win you a championship.
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Well, that is a close as one can get. 45 seconds away.

However, getting elite players opens the door for getting others, and more exposure for the program.
As we are all witnessing, the more high level exposure these schools get, the more they will/can command when it comes to revenue opportunities.
Very soon the Haves are going to put some serious distance against the Have nots, even more so than what we see today.
 
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CreekSnake

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You know I enjoy college sports and have my entire life(69 years)but it seems to be diminishing.If Carolina didn’t field a big time football program I think I survive.That is as long as the fish bite.!
 
atl-cock

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18IsTheMan said:
I think most of us are foreseeing a future where football teams, at least, break away from university affiliation. There's too much money to be had by breaking away.
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I hated liking your comment. It was more about agreeing with you than agreeing with the outcome.

Maybe schools will invest in teams such as corporate ownership in Japanese major league baseball - the Central and Pacific leagues. And athletes are employees.
 
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18IsTheMan

18IsTheMan

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atl-cock said:
I hated liking your comment. It was more about agreeing with you than agreeing with the outcome.

Maybe schools will invest in teams such as corporate ownership in Japanese major league baseball - the Central and Pacific leagues. And athletes are employees.
Click to expand...
Oh, i don't like it. at all.

The student athlete model has been fully abandoned in favor of the pursuit of revenue. There's no way to recover it and there seems to be little interest in doing anything to slow down the "progress".

It's not college sports any longer. It's not semi-professional. It's professional. Players with contracts getting paid 6 and 7 figures.

A major part of the problem is when conferences increasingly began looking at themselves as corporations in financial competition with the other conferences. That drove much of the madness we're seeing now.
 
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Piscis

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Harvard Gamecock said:
Well, that is a close as one can get. 45 seconds away.

However, getting elite players opens the door for getting others, and more exposure for the program.
As we are all witnessing, the more high level exposure these schools get, the more they will/can command when it comes to revenue opportunities.
Very soon the Haves are going to put some serious distance against the Have nots, even more so than what we see today.
Click to expand...
I don't think Miami fans and donors were happy that they spent $4million to get "close as one can get".
 
Harvard Gamecock

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Piscis said:
I don't think Miami fans and donors were happy that they spent $4million to get "close as one can get".
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Trust me on this. UM fans were disappointed in the outcome, but VERY happy with the season.
Miami beat both UF and FSU two in hated in state rivals. Then beat OSU (who they despise) in the CFP
Played for a NC.

Hard to imagine a fan base being disappointed with those results in any season.
 
P

Piscis

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Harvard Gamecock said:
Trust me on this. UM fans were disappointed in the outcome, but VERY happy with the season.
Miami beat both UF and FSU two in hated in state rivals. Then beat OSU (who they despise) in the CFP
Played for a NC.

Hard to imagine a fan base being disappointed with those results in any season.
Click to expand...
UF and FSU were both garbage and UM fans knew it. They didn't win the ACC, a weak conference, and they lost to Louisville and SMU during the regular season.

The season could have been a lot worse, but they paid a fortune to be disappointed in the end.
 
Harvard Gamecock

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Piscis said:
UF and FSU were both garbage and UM fans knew it. They didn't win the ACC, a weak conference, and they lost to Louisville and SMU during the regular season.

The season could have been a lot worse, but they paid a fortune to be disappointed in the end.
Click to expand...
Didn't matter, they beat them and it mattered for in state bragging and recruiting rights
But the season wasn't worse, taking the season as a whole it is considered a success not just by their fans but most pundits around the country.

You are projecting your argument onto a fan base, that it is obvious by your comments you know so little about.
 
1

1Mcreekcock

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Yes, athletics in the U.S. as a whole are in a money grab but before we start pointing fingers at others I suggest we look in the mirror. Without DEMAND no sports organization can sell their SUPPLY (TV rights). Ultimately, we the fans are the only ones that have the power to stop the madness. Which one of you is going to be 1st to turn the game off on your tv? 👀
 
P

Piscis

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1Mcreekcock said:
Yes, athletics in the U.S. as a whole are in a money grab but before we start pointing fingers at others I suggest we look in the mirror. Without DEMAND no sports organization can sell their SUPPLY (TV rights). Ultimately, we the fans are the only ones that have the power to stop the madness. Which one of you is going to be 1st to turn the game off on your tv? 👀
Click to expand...
I can't speak for everyone, but I know I have reached the point where I generally only watch one, maybe two at most, games on a Saturday. I have almost no interest in watching pro football with college naming rights outside of my team. I used to watch games all day and night, but watching a bunch of paid help doesn't really interest me.

On the whole, I do agree with you.
 
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atl-cock

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18IsTheMan said:
Oh, i don't like it. at all.

The student athlete model has been fully abandoned in favor of the pursuit of revenue. There's no way to recover it and there seems to be little interest in doing anything to slow down the "progress".

It's not college sports any longer. It's not semi-professional. It's professional. Players with contracts getting paid 6 and 7 figures.

A major part of the problem is when conferences increasingly began looking at themselves as corporations in financial competition with the other conferences. That drove much of the madness we're seeing now.
Click to expand...
Let's change "liking" your comment to agreeing with it.
 
atl-cock

atl-cock

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Piscis said:
UF and FSU were both garbage and UM fans knew it. They didn't win the ACC, a weak conference, and they lost to Louisville and SMU during the regular season.

The season could have been a lot worse, but they paid a fortune to be disappointed in the end.
Click to expand...
But they got a lot of positive publicity in addition to helping recruiting.
 
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JohnnySolo

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The fans that attend games should receive payment as well. Our attendance creates the environment that is desired by television and our effort in supporting our team by yelling and making noise also helps the team. Therefore I want my cut. I'm entering the fan portal and will attend whichever university football game pays me the most.
 
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Legal_fowl

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18IsTheMan said:
It is rapidly setting up a scenario where the upper elite will command their own ultra-millions media rights deals and be able to buy up every desirable player. The rest, including us, will be scrounging for the scraps with whatever might remain from media money, if anything. Once these teams can get their own media rights deals, kiss the conferences goodbye. Maybe kiss Gamecock football goodbye as well.
Click to expand...
Late stage capitalism promulgated by the Supreme Court. "Bigger is better" is actually anti-competitive and destructive.
 
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Piscis

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Legal_fowl said:
Late stage capitalism promulgated by the Supreme Court. "Bigger is better" is actually anti-competitive and destructive.
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Left alone, the free market will solve the problems. When the cost of watching college football exceeds what the public sees as the value provided, the public will spend their money elsewhere. Once the college football world is a world of a handful of super wealthy teams who scoop up all the talent and a bunch of teams that have zero chance of winning any championship, the fans will walk away.

The music industry is experiencing this now. Concerts are being cancelled due to lack of ticket sales. Ticket sales are declining because the cost of the ticket is higher than what the public thinks they are worth.
 
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Legal_fowl

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Piscis said:
Left alone, the free market will solve the problems. When the cost of watching college football exceeds what the public sees as the value provided, the public will spend their money elsewhere. Once the college football world is a world of a handful of super wealthy teams who scoop up all the talent and a bunch of teams that have zero chance of winning any championship, the fans will walk away.

The music industry is experiencing this now. Concerts are being cancelled due to lack of ticket sales. Ticket sales are declining because the cost of the ticket is higher than what the public thinks they are worth.
Click to expand...
Capitalism is in a death spiral caused by the accumulation of wealth in too few hands; corporate and individual. It may take another 50 years but it will collapse of its own weight. Corporations and people like Elon Musk are not moral actors. They are looking for ways to solidify their political and economic power at our expense. I believe AI will be one of those ways. Or, it may be their undoing. Too early to say anything definitely.

Watched iRobot last night. I'm deep in the weeds.
 
gpcocks

gpcocks

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Piscis said:
I'm disgusted by the contention that until players started getting NIL money, they were not rewarded in any way for playing. The scholarships, meals, housing, trainers, tutors, etc. were definitely rewards for playing.

Once the schools, teams, players, etc. start getting media money, will fans be able to stop "donating" to be able to buy tickets? Pro sports teams don't require ticket buyers to "donate" to the player's and coach's salaries. Fans simply pay for tickets to the games.
Click to expand...

We took our daughter for a visit to Vandy about a month ago. This may be the case at many universities, not sure....all the athletes had electric scooters to get around campus, while the "peasants" had to walk or bike. 😂
 
P

Piscis

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Legal_fowl said:
Capitalism is in a death spiral caused by the accumulation of wealth in too few hands; corporate and individual. It may take another 50 years but it will collapse of its own weight. Corporations and people like Elon Musk are not moral actors. They are looking for ways to solidify their political and economic power at our expense. I believe AI will be one of those ways. Or, it may be their undoing. Too early to say anything definitely.

Watched iRobot last night. I'm deep in the weeds.
Click to expand...
Govt. meddling, corruption and govt. picking of winners will be the cause of capitalism failing. That is why I said "left alone".
 
J

JohnnySolo

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What is the point of free market if they are all charging the same. Gas, food, internet, utilities. I remember there was always a cheaper alternative for cereal when I was a kid. Then I realized it was probably the cheaper alternative for the same large corps. The best competition is yourself.
 
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