What’s the best team Pulaski has ever fielded.
- Thread starter CrushBlock
- Start date
Even though they won the state championship in 1992, the 1993 team has to be considered the best. They were ranked in the USA Today Top 25 all year long and mostly steamrolled their first 13 opponents. Unfortunately, they lost a key player in the state semifinal which directly led to them losing in the state championship to Annandale, who went on to repeat in 1994. HEARTBREAK FOR COUGARS
The 1992 Salem-Pulaski game, even though it was mostly for pride, was an all-time classic with the Spartans prevailing 29-22 at Salem Stadium. It's too bad Salem didn't win the Group AA Division 4 title and have even better bragging rights.
The 1992 Salem-Pulaski game, even though it was mostly for pride, was an all-time classic with the Spartans prevailing 29-22 at Salem Stadium. It's too bad Salem didn't win the Group AA Division 4 title and have even better bragging rights.
2008 is a little past my time, but they look like a great team. The were undefeated when they narrowly lost to 2 time defending state champion Amherst in the state semis. The Lancers lost in the state championship that year to Broad Run, but Pulaski was clearly a strong contender that year.
Pulaski narrowly lost to Heritage Newport News in the AAA-5 state semifinal; Heritage romped in the state championship. Pulaski dropped down to AA in 2001 and was the favorite in AA-4. The Cougars were upset in the state championship by a Connor Hughes led Lafayette squad.
It's too bad that Pulaski lost in 2001 since they walk down the steps onto the field to the theme of 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Pulaski narrowly lost to Heritage Newport News in the AAA-5 state semifinal; Heritage romped in the state championship. Pulaski dropped down to AA in 2001 and was the favorite in AA-4. The Cougars were upset in the state championship by a Connor Hughes led Lafayette squad.
It's too bad that Pulaski lost in 2001 since they walk down the steps onto the field to the theme of 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Unfortunately for Salem. They use to rotate the home site between regions at the time. Had to go to Richlands and play a coach that knew who the better team was. The fact that he cheated is all we need to know. Had this game been played by current rules,it would have been played in Salem with possibly a different outcome.
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Richlands Coach knew he had the better team and they would have beat Salem on a tennis court, dry field, or sand lot in 92. They were the better team. Salem also used illegal cleats and that came out a couple of years later. It's why the VHSL didnt award Salem with the W because they were aware of it at the time. Richlands coach didnt know the cleats were out of regulation and neither did Salem's coach. Cleats didn't matter that day. It was an excuse for losing. Nothing more, nothing less.
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You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. I played in that game (that's why I say WE) and can garentee that Salem did not have any illegal cleats. I have no issues with any players from that Richlands team. Have been friends with a few over the yrs. I don't blame the players whatsoever. I do blame coach the coach. He didn't have the confidence in his own team to not scrap their offense and then wear illegal cleats. More physical is a mirage. Sure you look more physical if you have an advantage digging into the mud. VHSL handled this completely wrong. They got it right punishing the coach. Got it wrong for not having them forfeit the two games. Also got it wrong for punishing the team the following yr.
Let's keep this about Pulaski County. No need to hijack the post. This was not my intention. Like I said before, the 92/93 teams were the best teams I've seen. PC has definitely had a lot of other great teams over the yrs. Coach Hicks is a legend and I'm glad that I was able to play against him.
Just curious. How far above the AAA Division 5 cut line were they? They would have given AA Division 4 teams headaches if their enrollment placed them there.
Or did they play up?
They had a large student enrollment at the time. Probably about double what they have now. They were the furthest west AAA Div 6 team. Probably played up just prior to dropping down for a few yrs. Jobs have left the area so the student population has dwindled. Definitely would have been a problem in the 80's and 90's if they were in AA Div 4
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I'm the Big Dog. I decide which tree stays in the Doggy Park and if little ones get to play and which ones I get to hump. In 92......Ya Lost....Period. its been a third of a century. Get over it.
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I know what Im talking about because I also played in that game. I went to Richlands and had kids that went to Graham. I know for a fact that the cleats Salem had was the same damn length as ours. Our coach and our team watched film for 3 days on Salem and we knew that our front 5 from tackle to tackle was better than your front 4. We had pictures in media that followed and Im telling you, your cleats were the same dang length as ours. Our coach also had no idea the cleats were illegal. Thats a load of horseshit.
When I knew that you all were in trouble? The second carry by Parker, I blasted him and called him a Biaaatch. Obviously, Parker was a stud and far superior to me as a player, but he didnt say a word. I was just trying to get in his head and make him feel as uncomfortable as possible playing in Richlands. I knew he wasn't afraid, but the fact that he never said one word back to me? Thats when I knew you guys were in for a long day.
Never want to duke it out with the Salem Spartans over the long haul. Helluva program and as good as it gets in Va over the long term dating back to Andrew Lewis. All I'm saying is, I didnt do a damn thing wrong NOR did my teammates nor did our coach (intentionally). Our coach and coaches checked with a VHSL member Before we ordered the cleats and we were told they were fine. Then, after the fact, the VHSL changes its tune. Our fire department brought in blowers, giant fans and we even had a helicopter on the field for 2 days before the game trying to dry the field. We didnt "water the field." Just like you think you know the whole story, which you do from your end, you dont know the whole story from our end.
Did you know this? Most don't because the Roanoke Times made **** up such as "watering the field".....we were Not put on probation (couldn't participate in the playoffs in 1993) as punishment for cleats. We were put on probation for fans behavior against Orange County in the state title game the following week. We were told by the VHSL that we weren't put on probation for illegal cleats from the 1992 Salem game because they discovered Salem's cleats were also too long. Dennis Vaught was given a reprimand personally for having cleats out of regulation, but the 1993 (following year-no playoffs punishment) was due to fan behavior the following week in the title game against Orange County and not due to the cleats of 1992. Very few people outside of Richlands or Tazewell County actually know that, but its 100 percent true. The problem was....the Roanoke Times had the pulpit and had the first word which was spread quickly.
Do you guys win on a dry field? Maybe. I have no idea. But I know that we were just a bunch of 16, 17, and 18 year old kids that showed up to play a playoff game and we didnt know much about Salem other than that they were very good and were close to Roanoke and we played as hard as we could. We didn't come into the game "trying to cheat." We were too stupid. We didnt know how to "cheat." P.S. That officiating crew was from the New River Valley.
The part that bothers me after all of these years? Coach Vaught actually checked. He literally got confirmation with the VHSL prior to ordering the cleats which were ordered TWO weeks before we knew we would play Salem. We didnt "special order" the cleats just for "Salem." We ordered them for the playoffs and the VHSL told us they were OK and this is why the VHSL never did anything about the cleats. The VHSL never wanted that narrative out, but its damn true.
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Let's try to stick to facts
1. Richlands cheated. This is an undeniable fact. Why do people cheat? To gain an advantage. So this notion that "we were so confident" or "we could beat Salem in flip flops" doesn't line up with the actions taken at all. So yes, this is truly all we need to know.
2. That season Richlands and Salem had 2 common opponents, Graham and Christiansburg. Richlands beat those teams by a combined score of 63-23 while Salem beat those same 2 teams by a combined 83-7...I can reasonably presume those games were played under normal circumstances with Salem beating those 2 teams by a combined 76 points to Richlands 40 . That is not close, but a substantial difference.
3. Salem defeated a higher division state champion in Pulaski. Meanwhile Richland's marquee win that season was a 1 point win over lower the lowest division in football against Powell Valley.
Dennis Vaught was well aware of these things and at the end of the day, he went out of his way to cheat against 15 and 16 year old kids which is shameful, and yet people are defending this for some reason.
1. Richlands cheated. This is an undeniable fact. Why do people cheat? To gain an advantage. So this notion that "we were so confident" or "we could beat Salem in flip flops" doesn't line up with the actions taken at all. So yes, this is truly all we need to know.
2. That season Richlands and Salem had 2 common opponents, Graham and Christiansburg. Richlands beat those teams by a combined score of 63-23 while Salem beat those same 2 teams by a combined 83-7...I can reasonably presume those games were played under normal circumstances with Salem beating those 2 teams by a combined 76 points to Richlands 40 . That is not close, but a substantial difference.
3. Salem defeated a higher division state champion in Pulaski. Meanwhile Richland's marquee win that season was a 1 point win over lower the lowest division in football against Powell Valley.
Dennis Vaught was well aware of these things and at the end of the day, he went out of his way to cheat against 15 and 16 year old kids which is shameful, and yet people are defending this for some reason.
1. BS. As stated earlier, Richlands got permission with the VHSL when ordered and it happened 2 weeks Before the Salem game. Salems cleats were the same length as ours.
2. BS. Common Opponents. Means nothing. Transitive property. Richlands beat Salem. That happened.
3. More BS. as you use the same argument in number 2 as you do number 3. Richlands beat Salem head to Head. Richlands of 93 was heavy run, pass efficient and defense. We weren't going to blow opponents away because of our style and offense, but we would wear them down like we did Graham in the 4th qtr at Mitchell Stadium. Your transitive property argument means Zilch.
You are full of More ******** as Dennis Vaught actually got approval by the VHSL for the cleats and there's a reason the VHSL did not punish us for the cleats. Its because the cleats were actually cleared by the VHSL and so were Salem's which were the dame length.
Get triggered much? You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Maybe you dont have the intellect to distinguish the difference.
Ahhhh, there it is. LOL. Good Ole 2026. Lose the argument, so ya go personal. What took so long? I gave you facts. You dont Like those facts, so ya go on the ole personal attack. Think that makes you "unique" or "innovative." It makes you another dumb arse sheep standing in line at the trough, but like a sheep, they all think their "special."
So, we go can "personal" if you want and do the trade barbs thing like 10 year olds, or we can actually go by facts. Your call. I'm game either way, but you aren't revising history.
Fact 1. The cleats were ordered 2.5 weeks before we played Salem and Salem wasn't even a thought on the radar when we ordered them. Thats a fact. Now, i know it bothers you personally, but because it bothers you personally doesnt make it untrue.
Fact 2. Coach Vaught actually got the cleats approved by Not one, but TWO VHSL members and the order and description was literally faxed to the VHSL before we ever had the cleats in our hands. Thats a fact. That happened.
Fact 3. I will repeat. There is a reason Richlands was Not made to forfeit to Salem or Orange County. Did you know that Richlands actually wore the Cleats the game the week before Salem? Thats also a fact. The VHSL was aware of it.
Fact 4. Based on fact 3, Dennis Vaught did not intentionally cheat. You dont contact the VHSL about the cleats before you wear them and get approval if you are intentionally cheating.
Fact 5. The VHSL made a mistake by approving them and Richlands made a mistake by ordering them regarding the regulations. It was Not intentional. Because the Roanoke Times "says so" doesnt make it true.
Fact 6. In the VHSL meeting that followed in which the Principal of Richlands High was in attendance based on what to do with the cleats situation, two members of the VHSL committee literally admitted to giving Richlands the blessing that the cleats were OK and they admitted they made a mistake, but nothing Richlands did was "intentionally cheating." Thats exactly why the VHSL did nothing to Richlands for the cleats other than to give Vaught a personal reprimand. Again, no playoffs in 1993 was due to Richlands fan behavior against Orange Counry in the 1992 title game played the week after the Salem game.
The above are facts. You gave "hearsay" and a bunch of BS. Still want to stick with facts or do you want to go personal again?
Opinion-not a fact, but an opinion. Yes, we would have beat Salem on a dry field because we were better than Salem on the Line of Scrimmage on both sides of the ball. Salem had a couple of guys on the LOS that were brutal and one is on this Board because hes given his number before, and those 2 guys did major damage, but as an overall unit, we were a little better, in my opinion. This is my opinion, but 1 through 6 above aren't opinions. They are facts.
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Parker never talked to the opponents in the first place. He showed up and played ball. We played with quarter inch cleats. Never changed them out for longer cleats. Whoever said different was just trying to justify what your coach did. Why did your team change cleats anyway? You didn't do it for the entire season. Hell coach bought the cleats the week of the game from CMT. Then lied by saying he only used them in practice. You won the game yes 17-7 but sometimes you lose by winning when there's a controversy like this. I was friends with I think #62. He's a State Trooper now and we had some conversation about it. I haven't seen him in yrs after he moved to Richmond. His son is the same age as mine. It would have been cool had they both played in high school won a title together. Like I said before. I don't blame the players. VHSL doesn't put astricks in the book that I know of. We were all punished by the decision to wear the cleats. Maybe you could have won without them. Now that's what I would like to know. That would have left no doubt. I can't say that we would have definitely won. I do believe we would have had a better chance. We did struggle with the mud but that's part of football. I aggravated an old ankle injury and could not make quick cut backs without slipping down. The field conditions were not good for a team that was loaded with speed. I went to Concord with Breeding. He was still running the ball hard on kick returns.
I'm the first to not blame the players. You didn't have any idea. You just did what your coach told you to. I would have been right there with you if I was on the team. Hell I didn't have any idea when I noticed how long they were when you walked down the pavement. Let's play ball. Once the game was over I accepted that we lost. The home team can do whatever they want to the field anyway. That was never my issue.
Where did this Salem had the same size cleats come from? That's just not true. Maybe there's been too many yrs since the game and rumors have become facts. When I posted I didn't say we would have won the game. Just it could have been different but we will never know.
No question or argument here about your chances of winning on a dry field going up with the speed you all had. I would be a fool to argue that. The cleats were ordered for the playoffs literally because of the anticipated mud and bad field that was common in Swva back the due to the rain and cold weather. It plagued most teams back then in the playoffs from Powell Valley to Graham, and mud even played a factor when Salem went to Lee High a few years earlier. We knew that if we kept winning, the field conditions would be bad. So help me Gosh, our fire department had giant fans on the field and we had a local helicopter doing runs for 2 to 3 days prior. What does the Roanoke Times report a week or 2 after the Salem game? They said we had the fire department on the field watering the field for God's sake. I literally helped move the giant fans off of trucks, our entire team did, and I literally plugged one of the fans in. I know Vaught still and knew him well for years to follow and from my time playing for him. That man did not intentionally cheat. We're the cleats regulation? Absolutely not.
The officiating crew was from the New River District. One of the officials received a complaint by someone that our cleats were too long. He, supposebly the white-hat inspected our cleats and he apparently inspected one of the Salems Players cleats at half time warm ups. He told the VHSL committee during the potential disciplinary (what to do about the cleats issue) that Salems cleats looked to be the same length as ours. Richlands had a school official and Tazewell County had a school official at the VHSL committee meeting and the man literally said that. Now, could he have been a dumbarse and our cleats have been substantially longer and he simply wasnt smart enough to see any difference? Maybe and very possible, but this is what the man told the VHSL. That official was supposedly the white-hat for that game.
I've said this many times over the years. There is a reason the VHSL didnt make Richlands forfeit or put an asterisk by that scandal and not only that, we were not even punished for anything related to it. We were punished for fan behavior against Orange County. We cleared those cleats with the VHSL before we wore them and they were cleared again at halftime by the officials. That doesnt make them legal either. They were too long. But when the VHSL accidentally or makes a mistske by clearing them, then the officials clear them at halftime, then an official tells the VHSL that Salems cleats looked equal in length, this is why the VHSL did nothing. Does all of the above make it ok? Of course not. Hell no, but it also doesnt help an argument that says it was on purpose or intentional. If the VHSL thought it were intentional, we would have been made to forfeit.
Look, our cleats were not regulation. I dont argue this. Never have. What I aggressively argue and know for a fact, Dennis Vaught did not do this on purpose. Is it still cheating whether you do it on purpose or not? Maybe, I dont know the answer to that. Maybe it is. But I know it wasn't intentional. We bought new cleats for exactly that reason. Our cleats were worn down and it was getting late in the season and we wanted cleats that were not worn which would help us playing on an obvious mud field because they were new, but we didnt select them because of them being super long in order to cheat. I know you dont believe that, but its the truth.
Most dont know this tidbit. Dennis Vaught didnt even pick the cleats out. One of boosters did. That never even made public knowledge because Vaught took the hit himself, even to this day, he took the full responsibility when he didnt even pick the dang things out. One of our assistants told Coach Vaught it would be a good idea to get fresh cleats with the winter coming on and the field obviously getting worn down and our cleats losing tread all season.
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I don't know when you arrived at the field that day. When we got there the field was covered with a layer of snow. The only places it wasn't was some water puddles. I found one of the puddles on our first defensive series lol. I don't believe in everything the media puts out. With that weather the night before the field would have still been awful. I went to Concord so I know just how bad the weather can be. Some of the coldest games I ever played was in that conference. Even rainy days were cold. I will change my stance on him cheating on purpose. I personally don't know him and assuming is not what I want to do.
He was definitely mistaken on the cleats for Salem. If we also had illegal cleats nothing would have ever been said. In a way I wish we had wore them too. Then it's fair play. If we lose we lose. No supposed advantage anywhere.
I also don't think the VHSL had anything in their rules that would make a team forfeit for an equipment violation. Might still not. They are quick as h+ll to make you forfeit for not having enough classes or transfered in. I can honestly say we wore regular cleats. Only time I ever switched was to replace one that broke.
I would tell you this honestly. I've said this for years. We're the cleats illegal. YES. Would those cleats give an advantage? YES. How much of an advantage? I think very very little on that day because the mud and water was so bad it wouldnt have mattered (in my opinion). I couldnt cut and the cleats to me felt no different. Again, for Salem guys, maybe there experience was even worse. I dont deny that. I dont deny Salem would have been deservingly favored on a regular dry field. No argument there. But, if I believed Coach Vaught intentionally cheated, I would literally say so. I know he didnt. Coach Vaught and our assistants were floored when they got the news about the cleats. They were absolutely shell shocked and not because "they got caught." They were shocked because they had zero clue the cleats were not in regulation or illegal.
As for the field. We couldnt get it dry all week. The rain and wet snow came on and off all week and it remained cold. Literally could not do anything with the water. It looked the best it looked all week at about 2am in the early am of the game and then at 4am, down came the snow again and by that time, it was already too late.
My final thought on this. I also dont argue about the prowess of Salem/Andrew Lewis football. Way better program than Richlands historically and most Va schools. I knew nothing about Salem as a young kid raised deep in the mountains other than it's near Roanoke, they were big, and they were damn good. To us 17 year old kids, it was like a Big City school (New York City in today's time) coming to our place. I will swear by it that Vaught didnt cheat on purpose. That also doesnt mean its impossible that he did cheat on purpose. I can just say that if he did, he fooled me and others close to the program because being there and getting first hand in formation from people at the VHSL committee meetings, I simply dont think he did, but that's my opinion and everyone has their own.
My final thought on this. I also dont argue about the prowess of Salem/Andrew Lewis football. Way better program than Richlands historically and most Va schools. I knew nothing about Salem as a young kid raised deep in the mountains other than it's near Roanoke, they were big, and they were damn good. To us 17 year old kids, it was like a Big City school (New York City in today's time) coming to our place. I will swear by it that Vaught didnt cheat on purpose. That also doesnt mean its impossible that he did cheat on purpose. I can just say that if he did, he fooled me and others close to the program because being there and getting first hand in formation from people at the VHSL committee meetings, I simply dont think he did, but that's my opinion and everyone has their own.
You can write war and peace on this topic and 2 facts will never change
1. Richlands broke the rules and cheated
2. Breaking those rules gave richlands a competitive advantage
Anything else is moot. I dont care if he ordered rhe cleata 10 years ago, he chose to use them against Salem. Richlands didnt have the courage and belief in themselves to play Salem straight up. If they did, they would have
Its been a long time and I have never watched the film from this game. My take is that the field would be slippery for both teams. The team with 3 quarter inch cleats would be able to dig in better than the team with quarter inch cleats. This would prove to be important in the trenches as the lines could get push. Especially with the offense you ran that day. I was fine with losing. One good thing to come out of it is neutral state championship games.
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Broke the rules? Yes. Cheated if that means intentional? You are wrong. As for Richlands not "having the courage and belief in themselves to play Salem straight up," as I told you in the previous post. Thats nonsense.
And no, every other point is not "moot." The other points matter. Intent matters.
I think read on these forums once that Coach White in retrospect wishes that he had just kept quiet on the whole cleats affair. He was obviously very frustrated at the time. It's difficult to imagine now, but he wasn't sure he'd ever again have a run of talent like the 1989-1992 teams.
I'm glad there's been somewhat civil discussion on the topic.
I'm glad there's been somewhat civil discussion on the topic.
The 93 Pulaski team that I watched was very, very good. But, winning a title automatically trumps the talent on that team. I'm going with 92 as the best team in Pulaski history. Hicks had some great teams over the years. The 2001 team was very good, but lost to a very talented Lafayette team in the finals. When we would scrimmage Pulaski, they were always one of, if not the most physical teams we would face all year long. (mid -80's).
As far as the Richlands illegal cleats crap - start a new thread about it.
As far as the Richlands illegal cleats crap - start a new thread about it.
Agreed. Honestly the Hicks era always fielded big, strong, tough, very well coached teams that were a tough out for anyone. I mean it looked like a 100 of them coming down those stairs back in his day. That coupled with the fan support made that a tough place to play. The Salem/Pulaski rivalry was something to see (I believe this is how we got sidetracked) when he was at the helm and it has faded to a nothingburger over the last 15 years or so. People have to remember when he was at the helm they were playing 5A ball which is exponentially tougher competition to a State Chip. Hard to pick against the 1992 squad that not only won state, but won it convincingly against a team that always fields deep talent (game is on youtube). But the scores of the 1993 team are head turning as they blew the doors off of Salem and hung 63 on a very talented Northside team among others before narrowly losing in the state final.
They were actually AAA Div 6
They beat Thomas Dale
Bethel beat EC Glass in AAA Div 5 title game
