No I wasn't saying that but I will now. I'll also add Tom Ryan or whoever made that MSU type decision is an idiot. If I'm Pletcher or Moore, there's no God d@mn way I let them put my picture or banner on the wall for that.
If Spencer has any interest in coaching
- Thread starter Sullivan
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There really is something wrong with you, context does matter and you know we're talking about the ncaa championships.
Don't you fellows have sone rich donor that hangs out on this board? Most major programs have big boosters in Iowa is not the little sisters of the poor when it comes to money.
What you had happen at Penn State is similar to what happened in Iowa in the mid 70s. But the advantage of what Penn State has right now is they are in the richest recruiting area for wrestling in the country.
Of course they have money, however, they might have the best coach ever, a great staff, and in the most fertile recruiting ground in the nation.
Everything but the NCAA tournament was wrestled that season. The truth is PSU has won it 13 of the last 16 years. Still an amazing accomplishment. But, 13 out of 15 is the preferred method because it conveniently ignores that you weren’t the best team that season…
Iowa is not hurting for money compared to most schools, but they do not have a major donor anywhere near the level of PSU or Okie State. I don’t say that to diminish Carl’s coaching abilities, but it is and has been a key factor in building the PSU dynasty, and it is a key factor in what DT is building. There’s not an easy fix to that problem for Iowa.
No one here gives a crap what you say.
They won 13 times in the last 16 seasons, but they have won 13 of the last 15 NCAA championships. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
In 2020, PSU was weighed down by the fact that it had nobody who would have scored more than a handful of points at nationals at each of 125, 149, 157, and 285. No one from PSU even finished in the top eight of any of those weight classes at Big Tens, where PSU as a team finished fourth, 50 points behind Iowa.
Agree that nationals weren't contested in 2020 but let's not kid ourselves that Cael and PSU had much of a chance that year.
Because that's not what was being argued - they were arguing about years and not actual championships held.
Chihawk answered it very well. However, it is important for context. PSU was CLEARLY not the best team that year, having taken 3rd at B1G's. They even lost a dual to ASU that season.
As a result, it is SUPER CONVENIENT to completely remove that year from the record altogether. Context matters in this case much more than most...
They still didn't hold the matches . I could list 1000 upsets in individual sports, team sports , tournaments etc.
It's why we actually play the games.
No it's argue because they only held the championship s those years .
NO, it is ONLY because it is CONVENIENT to essentially wipe that season completely off the board because PSU was CLEARLY not the best team. Again, context matters and you are being disingenuous to imply anything other than what I said.
There's something wrong with him. So Iowa was a contender for the title 3 years in the last 17 years with 2 titles. Either way 2021 is five years ago and 2020 6.
Nothing better than PSU's own Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb conversing on an Iowa site about other's "issues". Don't you have an analogy about sexual assault accusations to post about? I am sure it completely relates to wrestling...
I personally don't think Penn State would've won 2020. I also don't see how it was a true forgone conclusion they couldn't have. They had finished 2nd at Bigs in 2017 behind Ohio State by 9.5 and then won nationals by 36.5. In 2018 they took 2nd at Bigs behind Ohio State by 16.5 and then won nationals by 7. 2019 they just ran away with it. Iowa had the better team, granted PSU is likely undefeated that year also without a 184lb forfeit to ASU ( lost by 1) and a Cassar injury that hurt big time against Iowa (lost by 2). Iowa had more bullets in the chamber for nationals and some high scoring potential but it isn't like Iowa was known for peaking in March back then and it wouldn't have been inconceivable for a few bad draws and lackluster performance from Iowa to open up the door. Certainly wouldn't have put money on PSU. I say 13 of 16 because who cares.
It is also convienient to bring up a likely national title that never actually happened. Main takeaway: COVID Sucked and Iowa was really good.
I thought Carl redshirted a few young studs that year to make a more realistic run at the title the following year??
From memory, I think Starrocci and Beard were redshirting and Berge and Cassar were injured and Bo Pipher and Nevils filled in respectively. Swapping starrocci would sorta be a wash and Joseph was 165 and Hall 174 with brooks at 184. Cassar not getting hurt would've been massive. But that's the sport.
Really?? Why then has Ira been spending 10 mil a year?
Here I thought he funded a large endowment whose structure has been designed to continue to fund the program
Even if so, he was a BIG funder...intending it to continue to fund the program..., and the Joe Bagle Babble guy said money is not needed, so question (to him) still stands. Why'd he contribute a large chunk of money if not needed?
Gable did this time and again without the best P4P guys. He developed wrestlers who contributed greatly without winning National Championships. Gable was a psychological genius. The guys who didn’t win titles kept him up at night and it tore his heart out.
Carl could give two ***** if someone succeeds. He just keeps restocking having the advantage of money on his side. When comparing Gable to Carl, everyone knows who the better person is.
Why Spencer gets discounted is baffling, he’s had some experience’s comparable to Gable’s. This in itself is enough to think he has the attributes and the demeanor to become a great coach.
If he would have won an Olympic gold medal, everyone might possibly agree, which is short sighted
Ira funded Rich Lorenzo's vision, as they were teammates and Ira was later coached by Rich. Cael's hiring was also in support of Rich's vision and contingent upon executing it.
Rich was a senior Ira's freshman (ineligible) year (1968). Then Rich stayed on as an assistant coach under Bill Koll.
That's why the Wrestling Complex is named after Rich (not Ira) although Ira provided much financial support.
So Ira has a direct lifelong personal connection to the program. He's made his fortune. Seems reasonable that he would continue to give back. He's not just some old fat cat looking to feel good about himself by attaching himself to an athletic program.
I am thinking Ira is 78ish. He's smart with money. I figure he'll be doing tax efficient charitable giving thru appreciated stock and qualified charitable distributions until the day he dies. He surely has budgeted for it.
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Never said money didn't matter, I believe Sanderson is the difference and the location is a big difference.
Money does matter but the difference maker is the coach and location. Something no one can overcome. And after Sanderson? Well the location will still be there along with the money due to the current success.
And when Sanderson leaves? Well that won't be for probably 8,9 years since his kid is a freshman at state college high. Toss in another decade or so of dominance after that and I'll be 80-90.
do you seriously think recruiting rankings were as solid 30-50 years ago as now? Seriously ?Cool fan fiction though.
This is why how DT does will be so interesting. No one knows what the future will hold, but at least right now he seems to be on the path to contending, and the magic ingredient for him has been a big checkbook, not locationNever said money didn't matter, I believe Sanderson is the difference and the location is a big difference.
Money does matter but the difference maker is the coach and location. Something no one can overcome. And after Sanderson? Well the location will still be there along with the money due to the current success.
And when Sanderson leaves? Well that won't be for probably 8,9 years since his kid is a freshman at state college high. Toss in another decade or so of dominance after that and I'll be 80-90.
Although I'd rather alot of today's $$ not be a part of the recruiting landscape, in general I've no problem with Ira (or Bob, Chad, etc) donating money, no matter their underlying reason (of which winning is almost certainly high on donator's list of reasons). I just found it crazy to see someone say "you don't need money.." [to win or be good].
Sorry, got confused when you said "You don't need money...". Post #99. Glad it's clarified here by your noting "Money does matter".Never said money didn't matter, I believe Sanderson is the difference and the location is a big difference.
Money does matter but the difference maker is the coach and location. Something no one can overcome. And after Sanderson? Well the location will still be there along with the money due to the current success.
And when Sanderson leaves? Well that won't be for probably 8,9 years since his kid is a freshman at state college high. Toss in another decade or so of dominance after that and I'll be 80-90.
TBH I have him on ignore on your board as a baseline filter. But I see now he has denied that as his intent.
I believe individual wrestlers don't need money to be good (but it could help them be better). I believe programs need money to remain competitive with other programs that have money, as money is the maker of opportunity for so many things.
In part the whole NIL situation came about from those programs suppressing labor costs to control total expenditures while directing that money to university administration and capital improvements of their sports complex. An 'arms race' can only happen when parties refuse to lay down their weapons.
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You’re seriously implying Carl has done more with less, as compared to Gable?
Cool fan fiction though.
Are you ignorant or obtuse?
Both had huge advantages. Cael is in the best place for recruiting as PA is light years better than Iowa. Gable had extra scholarships compared to other teams at a time when wrestlers were not being paid. Iowa had a larger wrestling budget at that time too. They were both great Cyclones which is the difference between them and all others. You can't hire former Hawkeyes if you want a dynasty. Iowa and ISU are both currently trying that failed formula.
No, I understand reality. The top wrestlers are so much more accomplished than they were back in the day, Penn State had a true freshman last year that was the men's world team starter.
The best guys have been tested and there's so much more advanced than they were 50 years ago. There's not much development going on anymore because the best rests are going to be fairly developed by the time they get to college.
Jaydin Eierman just posted on Instagram "shadys back" with a video of him wrestling...not sure if that means he's back to wrestling or if he's going to be coaching somewhere!
Gable might’ve had extra scholarships but Carl was also paying when others weren’t so that advantage is a wash. The scouting advantage Carl has is also HUGE!!!! These guys have so many hours of film of them online and not just against local high schoolers, against other top prospects from around the country. Gable was watching a few matches of his guys on a grainy *** vhs against a kid with a 15-15 record from the town 10 miles away. Yeah he could go to a bigger tournament and watch some top guys but kids weren’t traveling like they do now and if he missed a match he couldn’t look it up online to watch at a later time. That right there is a huge advantage for Carl that Gable didn’t have the luxury of.
You act like only Cael can do this. Every coach Cael has to beat can do this too. That is not an advantage. There is no issue identifying top recruits for any coach. The problem is getting that top recruit to want to wrestle at the school.
How dense are you? He’s talking about advantages Carl has over Gable, not advantages Carl has over other coaches right now.
Glad you got it. I thought I laid it out pretty simple to understand.