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Arkansas cuts both men's and women's tennis

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Anon201138

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patdog said:
Run the numbers without the debt service. There’s not an expense. It’s paying for a capital investment. And, in terms of this thread & cutting sports, it’s not something you can eliminate by cutting the sport.
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There’s creative things I think we should do more of. I think one thing we could and should do more of is holding concerts there in offseason if feasible. It’s a fantastic venue that should be used for more than just 20-30 baseball games a year. I’m not sure we could get you know some major pop star to come to Starkville and sell out Davis Wade with 60,000 people, but there are plenty of country singers who would gladly do a show in Starkville at the Dude in front of 15-20k. Fans on the actual field as well it could be set up easiky. You can make big money this way too.
 
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TaleofTwoDogs

TaleofTwoDogs

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MSU Athletics is a not-for-profit entity. Theoretically, its sole financial responsibility is to allocate financial assets so as to run efficient operations and to not run a deficit. Included in that responsibility is to segregate those assets into nonrestricted and restricted assets (debt service, etc). Unfortunately, the largest asset source, football, is underpreforming due to poor performance (i.e., low ticket sales, merchandise, etc) If football can be elevated, then the budget model can equalized and all sports can be funded allowing for fan enjoyment across all programs. A simple model, just needs constant supervision and oversight . Of course, a big donor can be the golden egg to keep the wheels running.
 
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johnson86-1

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DesotoCountyDawg said:
Probably just easier to cut both from the same sport.
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There’s probably some facilities expenses shared between men and women’s tennis that wouldn’t go away if you only cut one sport. That’s the biggest argument for keeping women’s basketball. You’ve got a big expensive facility that you’re going to have for men’s basketball. The incremental investment beyond that probably isn’t much. Or at least wouldn’t be if everyone got realistic about what you should spend on a sport your fans largely don’t care about.
 
615dawg

615dawg

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The best part about Arkansas cutting tennis is everyone on Twitter is examining their school's sport by sport profit and loss and coming to the same conclusion.

Women's basketball is a drag on every single athletic department in the nation. ESPN pushed it down our throats every single year. It's a horrible product and it should not be as big as it is. Women do not even like it. Most of you don't even realize this because we haven't been good since Vic but there are no longer four regional sites. They have two regional sites and eight teams each in them because cities were losing so much money hosting women's basketball regionals. And the cities that are getting these regionals aren't really neutral. Bridgeport, CT and Greenville, SC are mainstays.

So now you are seeing a preview of what is happening. For every unathletic layup missing brick laying women's basketball bench player schools are having to pay NIL money to, there's a hardworking tennis player or swimmer that is going to lose their entire sport. A lot of expenses can be cut down in the minor sports by fixing the conference footprints and scheduling.

 
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Anon201138

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615dawg said:
The best part about Arkansas cutting tennis is everyone on Twitter is examining their school's sport by sport profit and loss and coming to the same conclusion.

Women's basketball is a drag on every single athletic department in the nation. ESPN pushed it down our throats every single year. It's a horrible product and it should not be as big as it is. Women do not even like it. Most of you don't even realize this because we haven't been good since Vic but there are no longer four regional sites. They have two regional sites and eight teams each in them because cities were losing so much money hosting women's basketball regionals. And the cities that are getting these regionals aren't really neutral. Bridgeport, CT and Greenville, SC are mainstays.

So now you are seeing a preview of what is happening. For every unathletic layup missing brick laying women's basketball bench player schools are having to pay NIL money to, there's a hardworking tennis player or swimmer that is going to lose their entire sport. A lot of expenses can be cut down in the minor sports by fixing the conference footprints and scheduling.

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Look at what I posted above. Ole Miss’s women’s basketball lost even more than ours. Lost $7.4 million (!).

Women’s basketball is allegedly the most “popular” women’s college sport much in the same way the WNBA is the most “popular” women’s professional sport. Spoiler alert: neither are popular; if WNBA teams weren’t subsidized by NBA teams they would have all gone under in year one.

We should cut women’s basketball. People will say “oh the optics look bad”. F*ck optics we’re trying to save our athletics department. Why is women’s basketball getting cut any worse than women’s tennis getting the axe? Are women’s basketball players more valuable/deserving than women’s tennis players? Actually, they’re less valuable, because 1.) none of our fans care and 2.) they hemorrhage money and bleed our university dry.

Now, baseball loses more money than our WBB, but if you were to poll our fanbase, would you rather cut baseball, or even make adjustments to spending in baseball, or cut women’s basketball program entirely, 99% would say nuke women’s basketball. We should be the bold ones to do it. MANY universities would follow our lead; no one wants to be the first one.
 
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615dawg

615dawg

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Anon201138 said:
Look at what I posted above. Ole Miss’s women’s basketball lost even more than ours. Lost $7.4 million (!).

Women’s basketball is allegedly the most “popular” women’s college sport much in the same way the WNBA is the most “popular” women’s professional sport. Spoiler alert: neither are popular; if WNBA teams weren’t subsidized by NBA teams they would have all gone under in year one.

We should cut women’s basketball. People will say “oh the optics look bad”. F*ck optics we’re trying to save our athletics department. Why is women’s basketball getting cut any worse than women’s tennis getting the axe? Are women’s basketball players more valuable/deserving than women’s tennis players? Actually, they’re less valuable, because 1.) none of our fans care and 2.) they hemorrhage money and bleed our university dry.

Now, baseball loses more money than our WBB, but if you were to poll our fanbase, would you rather cut baseball, or even make adjustments to spending in baseball, or cut our cut women’s basketball program entirely, 99% would say nuke women’s basketball. We should be the bold ones to do it. MANY universities would follow our lead; no one wants to be the first one.
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Someone is going to do it. It's going to probably be a G5 school, but someone will do it. And it will be glorious. Saw this tweet from Pat Forde - he talked to Louisville after Arkansas made the move.

 
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Anon201138

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Called3rdstrikedawg said:
Frankly, looking a baseball expenses, I could see them going back to divisions to shorten trips and travel primarily by bus.
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The biggest expenses, for any sport, besides coaching staff salary is far and away chartered jet travel. We have 41 players on our roster this season. When you factor in coaches, training staff, etc, we’re having to charter 60 man flights. Want to know how much that costs? Around $30k per hour. You’re looking at spending $150-200k just to get to the weekend series @ Texas, South Carolina, Missouri etc.

There’s a reason minor league teams take the bus. Everyone gets all up in arms whenever I suggest maybe the money-losing baseball team should not have astronomical expenses. If our fanbase is going to throw a fit about not paying a coach $3m (ridiculous financially) having an $80m stadium (ridiculous financially), then we should at least cut back on travel expenses etc when we can.

If we’re not going to do this, which I understand because our fans love baseball, then we should absolutely slash expenses on EVERY other money losing sport. Bus only, WAY lower coaching salaries for any sport not in the big 3 men’s sports.

Let baseball be our “loss-leader”, for lack a better term. Not a perfect analogy. But there are many stores/businesses out there like Walmart/Costco/retail chains etc that lose money on certain popular items, but they do it because it keeps customers satisfied and the hope is if you’ll get in the door to buy that, you’ll buy something else.
 
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Anon201138

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Seinfeld said:
What is up with volleyball's expenses? Do they not use mostly existing facilities for practice and games? How in the world do you spend 2.7M on a couple of 15-student teams, the coaches, and traveling to a few matches throughout the year?
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Chartering a jet to take a flight to a Tuesday night game in Columbia, Austin, Gainesville, Lexington, etc. Do this 10 times a year. Huge expense that no one thinks of
 
615dawg

615dawg

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Seinfeld said:
What is up with volleyball's expenses? Do they not use mostly existing facilities for practice and games? How in the world do you spend 2.7M on a couple of 15-student teams, the coaches, and traveling to a few matches throughout the year?
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You probably have a million tied up in coaches salaries. Travel the way SEC teams do it for even minor sports is expensive.
 
Bulldog from Birth

Bulldog from Birth

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615dawg said:
Someone is going to do it. It's going to probably be a G5 school, but someone will do it. And it will be glorious.
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I’ll be honest. Several mid tier major schools like us nuking women’s basketball is probably what’s ultimately needed to enact real federal regulations to restore order and sanity to a system spiraling out of control. Tennis isn’t going to get their attention. But women’s basketball would.
 
Leeshouldveflanked

Leeshouldveflanked

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If Baseball tickets are always %100 sold and there is a waiting list, the prices are too low. Also the last game I went to the guy in front of me in line brought his food and drink in a Kroger sack, so MSU is missing out on a lot of concessions between that kind of stuff, coolers , etc.
 
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QuaoarsKing

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Seems like sports like volleyball could have small regional conferences, like a Mississippi-Louisiana conference that just has all the D1 schools in it, whether they're in the SEC, SWAC, or somewhere in between for football. You could still have the same RPI calculation, and 64-team tournament at the end of the year with autobids and all that, but you get there with a lot less travel.
 
Trojanbulldog19

Trojanbulldog19

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patdog said:
Sad. And for minimal savings. You’re right though. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
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It's what's happening with all the sports and money now and really the only thing they care about is football money. All these conferences make zero sense culturally, geographically, logistically. No way schools can keep up with all of it.
 
Chesusdog

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Seinfeld said:
What is up with volleyball's expenses? Do they not use mostly existing facilities for practice and games? How in the world do you spend 2.7M on a couple of 15-student teams, the coaches, and traveling to a few matches throughout the year?
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Embezzling.
 
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Howiefeltersnstch

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Anon201138 said:
It’s for title IX law reasons. Throughout any athletic department, there has to be as many women’s scholarships as men. This is why there are usually more women’s sports than men, to make up for the 85 football scholarships.

They cut the women’s and men’s tennis team. If they cut women’s basketball, they’d likely have to cut men’s basketball. Or maybe both men’s golf and men’s track and field.
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I accept your offer
 
Perd Hapley

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POTUS said:
-5 Million for Baseball. 👀
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The SEC has evidently decided collectively that baseball has intangible value that far exceeds what shows up as revenue on the balance sheets. Otherwise, everyone would be cutting it. Including us. The fact that its the 2nd or 3rd least profitable sport at Arkansas, and loses twice as much money as softball and twice as much as the 2 sports they actually cut combined…..tells you all you need to know.
 
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Anon201138

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Perd Hapley said:
The SEC has evidently decided collectively that baseball has intangible value that far exceeds what shows up as revenue on the balance sheets. Otherwise, everyone would be cutting it. Including us. The fact that its the 2nd or 3rd least profitable sport at Arkansas, and loses twice as much money as softball and twice as much as the 2 sports they actually cut combined…..tells you all you need to know.
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Agreed. It’s the only money-losing sport that fanbases still show up to watch, and at least the local fanbases themselves, will watch on TV.

The difference is that unlike basketball and football, almost no one outside of those specific fanbases are going to watch the games. Very few people outside of LSU/MSU alumni/fans are going to watch the baseball game today. Millions and millions from all over the country that are not LSU and OM fans are going to watch the LSU-Ole Miss football game. Or Bama-Georgia. Or Michigan-Ohio state. Or the Duke-UNC basketball game.

The TV money from the national viewership is the difference.
 
Perd Hapley

Perd Hapley

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Anon201138 said:
Agreed. It’s the only money-losing sport that fanbases still show up to watch, and at least the local fanbases themselves, will watch on TV.

The difference is that unlike basketball and football, almost no one outside of those specific fanbases are going to watch the games. Very few people outside of LSU/MSU alumni/fans are going to watch the baseball game today. Millions and millions from all over the country that are not LSU and OM fans are going to watch the LSU-Ole Miss football game. Or Bama-Georgia. Or Michigan-Ohio state. Or the Duke-UNC basketball game.

The TV money from the national viewership is the difference.
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The fact is that baseball atmosphere at all but a handful of SEC schools helps drive enrollment increases, which is really what college sports is all about.

The other fact is that even football doesn’t really “make any money” when you consider all the off-the-books costs…..but it’s intangible impact on enrollment is exponentially bigger than baseball or anything else.

Enrollment is where the money is.
 
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40 acres and a mule

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Perd Hapley said:
The fact is that baseball atmosphere at all but a handful of SEC schools helps drive enrollment increases, which is really what college sports is all about.

The other fact is that even football doesn’t really “make any money” when you consider all the off-the-books costs…..but it’s intangible impact on enrollment is exponentially bigger than baseball or anything else.

Enrollment is where the money is.
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Football "doesn't make any money" but yet everyone's ledger has football the top money maker literally paying for every other team sport. Dumbest take ever.
 
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