I think this one is rather obvious, but let’s do it anyway.
Best 2x NCAA Champ in PSU Wrestling History
- Thread starter mcpat
- Start date
DT is the obvious choice, but let’s again appreciate McCoy going 131-1 over his last three years after his redshirt season and after moving up from 197 to HWT
Kinda crazy Haines had 4 career losses. 3 to national champs and 1 to....Vinny Zerban of all people. Credit to him going as a young true freshman, barely 18, and taking one somewhat random loss and locking in after that. Gonna miss watching him but his freestyle career is just starting. Could have 3 Olympic cycles and still be barely 32.
Taylor was my choice, but considering Taylor the obvious choice over Andy Matter is rather silly.
Love to hear more from you on this. Folks from time to time post about how great Matter was; please do so.
I'll say Cenzo is 2nd behind DT because of the killer weight class and beating one of the best ever 2 timers in the finals, twice. And, oh, what a pin!!!!
You guys might think I'm crazy, but I think DT was the best to ever wrestle at PSU. He didnt have the best overall results, but he's always been at the top of my list.
That’s not crazy. I don’t put him there, at least anymore, but there’s a strong argument for it. The bonus, the NCAA scoring, the Olympic and World gold, etc.
If we're deciding based upon world medals, then advantage Levi because he did it while still in college, winning Senior World silver at age 21 years, 2 months. Taylor's first Senior World medal came at age 27 years, 10 months -- and 4 years after his last varsity match.
Taylor's big advantage was bonus rate. OTOH, Levi, Cenzo, and a few others on the list never got pinned.
Taylor's big advantage was bonus rate. OTOH, Levi, Cenzo, and a few others on the list never got pinned.
I'm not even taking into consideration any freestyle results. Just my humble opinion that he was the best to ever wrestle for PSU. He had one slip up against a former teammate and Dake to deal with. Most, if not all the guys with equal or more titles didn't have to deal with a Dake of their own.
Admittedly, I would never have said this had DT not gone to Okie State… but as great as DT was (and he really was great), there was always someone better than him. In college, it was Dake. Post-college freestyle, it was Dake again and Burroughs. He had to change his body and weight class to wrestle at worlds and the Olympics. Tough crowd, me saying this. And he went on to be the best on the planet at his new weight class.
Cenzo stopped his Dake. Comparable?
Yes, pinning a reigning 2x champ who had beat him in the dual and Bigs. This has been said before but worth restating. IMar only lost to 2 wrestlers in his NCAA career and had winning records against both. Cenzo got a lot of style points in those 2 champ matches.
The best 2x PSU champ isn't even on the list. Mesenbrink currently has two titles.
Levi Haines just because I’m anti-DT these days. I’m petty like that
Maybe? Maybe not? I think that recency bias is prevalent here. People forget how dominant McCoy was at HWT. 131-1? C’mon man. That’s just downright domination.
Twice.
Taylor's best win by far was Derek St. John, 2 years before St. John won his title (and as defending champ, St. John lost in the quarters and took 5th, so maybe not the best of the 2013 champs).
Kerry McCoy beat: Jeff Walter, Tolly Thompson, and 2x Justin Greenlee -- that was all in the 1994 season. He beat all 3 of them again in 1995 (Walter and Thompson multiple times each). Then in 1997 he beat Thompson and Stephen Neal 2x each. In that stretch he pinned Thompson 2x. All were better wins than St. John.
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Not quite clear cut, in my mind. Cenzo probably would have had three if Covid didn't ruin his chance. Along with DT and Haines this is closer, than what appears in the rear mirror.
I would pick Mitchell Mesenbrink who wasn't even an option. DT would be my number 2 guy. MM has one career loss and that was a close loss to David Carr.
I was still a kid, but Matter then Jerry White were my rasslin heros. Matter won 58 matches with 19 falls, and a whole lot of 8 to 15 point plus wins. His senior year was the first with superior decisions. I didn't count, but his bonus rate would have been pretty high with majors and tech falls available. He just physically dominated the snot out of people. He would take his opponent down and then physically dominate from top. He would ride with an arm draped across the upper back with his hand hooked into an underarm and if you dared to try and get your head up he would use his forearm as a hammer and just rake the back of your head. Eventually the head would stay down and the points and the real beating would commence
He rarely surrendered offensive points. He was as physical as anybody i have ever watched, he was mean and as determined as anybody who ever wore the belted singlet.
As good as Taylor was, I am not sure he would have beaten a contemporary Matter.
To be fair. McCoy was 150-18 over his entire PSU career. He won 131 of his last 132 matches after moving up to HWT, which included an 88 match win streak. He was a 3x AA, 3x B1G champ, 2x NCAA Champ and won the Hodge in 1997. A Pan Am champ in 1993 and 2000 and a World Cup champ in 1999 and 2000. He also represented the U.S. in the Olympics twice. On top of that, he was a professional cello player and also played tennis and golf. A true renaissance man.
pennstatewrestlingclub.org
Kerry McCoy (by John Harrison) (1997) – Penn State Wrestling Club
pennstatewrestlingclub.org
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I agree but the last three years of Zain were barbaric. For all his flair, DT couldn’t achieve that level of dominance
You missed a ton of Cenzo’s credentials. There is no reason that the mantle of GOAT is bestowed strictly based on “on the mat” stuff. Only a White Claw drinker doesn’t understand this.
IMO, he walks away with this and it’s not close. He likely is the GOAT period, no 2x Champ category qualifier necessary.
It’s nice to see that there are at least six other board members (as of this post) that know what the F is up.
IMO, he walks away with this and it’s not close. He likely is the GOAT period, no 2x Champ category qualifier necessary.
It’s nice to see that there are at least six other board members (as of this post) that know what the F is up.
McCoy certainly was dominant for 3 seasons. But not 4. DT had the most NCAA tourney points of all Penn State wrestlers with the exception of CStar with the 5th year. DT also has the highest career bonus win % of any Penn State wrestler. 91.2% bonus is insane.
As long as we're discussing 2 or more NC's, absent some dereliction of duty by an snoozing official, Nolf's reign of terror was even more decisive and he'd have the best win pct. I'll take a slightly lower bonus rate when more than half of his matches end with a stick.
Plus, Pantaleo seemed to have his number in losing by dec (3 X) and 3 regular decisions came in 2018 after he came back from that injury. (Crone, Kemmerer and Hidlay).
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Excellent point. I didn’t include those with eligibility left; maybe I should have.
Q got me back into wrestling as a fan. He is the sole reason I bought season tickets.
Nolf would have my vote for best Penn State 3x champ by a hair over Zain, Ruth and Nickal. If Psycho gets his 3rd with 100% bonus next season, maybe I'll change my vote.
I didn’t vote for Jeff "5th place sucks" Prescott, but a Prescott appreciation tidbit.
Prescott beat Iowa's Chad Zaputil twice in the finals. We all know Iowa used to pride themselves on beating people with their physicality, pace and conditioning. Earning stall calls was part of the Gable and Iowa lore as well as part of their offense. They attacked with unrelenting pace and in Gable's house, stalling was a completely gutless way to wrestle. Even to the point Gable has yelled at officials to call his own guys for stalling. I watched Gable jump from his seat screaming at an Iowa kid for dropping his head on the mat after giving up a major decision takedown with 5 seconds left to wrestle. He wasn't mad because he gave up the takedown, he was furious because his kid STOPPED wrestling. You never, ever stall wearing a Hawk singlet wrestling for Gable.
In Prescott's junior season finals appearance he pummeled Zaputil 14-0. Prescott rode the snot out of Zaputil, turning him for multiple back points and Zaputil had nothing to offer. He just bellied out and tried to stay off his back.
The beating Prescott put on Zaputil forced a change to the plan of attack for the next year's final that woud make the current Hawkeye program proud as hell. Prescott was so freaking dominant at 118 the plan Gable put together to give Zaputil a chance was to stall, stall and stall, doing everything to not go underneath Prescott. Prescott won the second match 2-0 with Zaputil never even faking an offensive attack. Prescott was so freaking good he forced Gable to embrace stalling as a path to victory.
Prescott beat Iowa's Chad Zaputil twice in the finals. We all know Iowa used to pride themselves on beating people with their physicality, pace and conditioning. Earning stall calls was part of the Gable and Iowa lore as well as part of their offense. They attacked with unrelenting pace and in Gable's house, stalling was a completely gutless way to wrestle. Even to the point Gable has yelled at officials to call his own guys for stalling. I watched Gable jump from his seat screaming at an Iowa kid for dropping his head on the mat after giving up a major decision takedown with 5 seconds left to wrestle. He wasn't mad because he gave up the takedown, he was furious because his kid STOPPED wrestling. You never, ever stall wearing a Hawk singlet wrestling for Gable.
In Prescott's junior season finals appearance he pummeled Zaputil 14-0. Prescott rode the snot out of Zaputil, turning him for multiple back points and Zaputil had nothing to offer. He just bellied out and tried to stay off his back.
The beating Prescott put on Zaputil forced a change to the plan of attack for the next year's final that woud make the current Hawkeye program proud as hell. Prescott was so freaking dominant at 118 the plan Gable put together to give Zaputil a chance was to stall, stall and stall, doing everything to not go underneath Prescott. Prescott won the second match 2-0 with Zaputil never even faking an offensive attack. Prescott was so freaking good he forced Gable to embrace stalling as a path to victory.
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THIS is why wrestling forums exist. Thanks for sharing.
Impossible options. They are all great. Yeah, yeah... It's a copout... But I can live with that. The lineage that is PSU wrestling grows more impressive every year...
To top it off the Iowa fans booed Prescott heavily after the match insinuating he had stalled. My dislike started then.
Man. No way, despite my screen name and that Andy was my first college wrestling hero when I started wrestling in high school, could I work out a vote. Matter, McCoy, Cenzo, Taylor, Haines, Prescott and Q in a 7 way tie. You can't make me pick.