Again, not stoking fires, trying to correct false narratives. But I guess I should just let everything burn. YAY DERAILED THREAD
We should go after Najia Hines...but will we?
- Thread starter SBP
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Again, not stoking fires, trying to correct false narratives. But I guess I should just let everything burn. YAY DERAILED THREAD
I’m not sure you complaining about people possibly complaining years from now is really correcting a false narrative. Some of your other posts I now see are doing just that but the one I commented on not so much.
I'm just trying to make the math work with that. Let's assume a team wants to pay no more than 25% of their budget on their highest paid player. That would mean that a school would need to have a budget of at least $18M to afford that. I get that NIL is going up but can there be more than 20 teams with that type of budget? And how many of those schools need a starting C or are already paying someone that type of %? And then how many transfer players are ahead of him on the remaining team's boards?
Eventually you did explain very well how Holloway was similar, and I now understand and appreciate that many of your posts are about correcting misconceptions. Just the initials one was you can’t wait to hear the complainers complain about Holloway in a few years if he was Rutgers coach. It was rage baiting not comparing Holloway to Pike (the very first one is all). I’ll drop this now.
Let's not kid ourselves, a slightly below average center would be an upgrade.
He’s one of the best of the portal 5s. We’d be lucky to get him.
If I was on the hot seat like pike, id want an experienced rebounder/shot blocker that can catch lobs and Id blow the transfer budget on him and a forward or 2. Then just run with the guards already in the program. If they have extra money, it would be nice to add hines, could maybe give Rutgers a chance with Micah gordon. I'd offer Gordon starting pg as a freshman and however long he stays in college. Lol probably why I'm not a recruiter/coach
Ok - but what do you suggest we do instead? The reality is that it would probably cost Rutgers at least 2M to sway even a slightly below average projecting high major center to transfer in. We’re not an attractive destination right now straight up. It’s going to take more money right now to convince a kid to come here than say a place like Nebraska on the rise. So not only do teams like that have more money than us, but they also may not have to outbid everyone interested just to have a punchers chance.
Ogbole was worse than slightly below average at the high major level so slightly above average would be a considerable upgrade. The problem is - there may not be anyone available in that 2M range that would consider us. If that’s the case we have to pay the 3M. If we don’t we’re going to be complete garbage at center and power forward.
We won’t be paying $5 mil for a center. Maybe $5 Mil for two centers, but not that much for one.
Correct. I suspect the problem though is that the competition for centers in the $2.5 M and under price range is very steep, and the pool of ones that are competent (not even good but project to be at least servicable) at the high major level just isn’t that large. No doubt, a pickle because it ironically may be easier (recruiting wise for RU) to shell out the crazy money upfront for a higher end guy and lock them in.
There isn’t a good answer here and no, we can’t pay $5M, but folks need to start accepting that even centers like Ogbole might command $1.5M in the brave new world we live in. If that’s true, think of the garbage RU is going in get in the open portal market if we’re setting our upper price tag around $2M. If we decide we need to budget for 4 decent front court players (centers and forwards) for $5.5M instead of just 2 better ones, there’s a very real chance we end up with 4 guys like Denis. We won’t get 4 Falls, but we could get some. The $2M level is going to be, at best, utility low major guys and for every Gettys in the mix there are a lot more who translate up to deep bench warmer at the high major level. This is a HUGE risk. Way moreso than the “chance” that J Mike plays 25 mpg instead of going down to 18 or something. When will some of you start to understand this???
I for one am going to try to be optimistic in the guys we’ve signed so far because it does seem like our camp agrees (strategy wise at least) with what I’m describing (nobody who committed to stay can possibly cost much so hopefully we’re saving up).
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Exactly why Ogbole would try and get an extra year and play somewhere else.
He could earn at least $1mm from a school and even be a backup at these types of rates being thrown around.
I hope he gets it somehow
Wake me up when someone pays him a $1m+...lol. He's not going to be at a high major if he gets another year.
if you think he’s worse than every single high major back up center who logged 10-15 meaningful minutes then no offense, your clueless. There is no basis to suggest he was worse than Shaq Doorson at any point in his career. He’s just not materially better. The thing is, the market for even a Shaq type might be over $1M because there flat out aren’t that many players over 6-9 and 220 lb who are good enough to even see the floor at the high major level. Teams like SJU, Miami, SMU, etc. can afford to spend $1M a pop on 2 back up centers. And the better mid majors will for sure be paying their starting centers over a million. Maybe even the middle tier ones. I think you have a warped sense of where the center market is right now. Hines only got 18 mpg - scored less ppg than J Mike and he’s going to get something close to 5M. That is the center market.
One he's out of eligibility, two you guys way overrate this guy. So wake me up when it happens.
Always felt like EO and Shaq were pretty comparable and EO took a lot of heat for being put in a role he never should’ve been asked to play
as a big ten backup center playing 15 min a game I think we all would’ve been happy with his time here
anger or disappointment with him is kind of the microcosm of the crappy team on the floor the last 3 years
it confused me a little why Rutgers didn’t even attempt to retain him unless he just simply wanted to maintain his minutes … we’re not going to get a better backup big in the portal we will be LUCKY to find 2 that are materially better AND find a backup equal to what he would’ve done
Whether he’s eligible or not is irrelevant. The point is about FMV of players like him.
I compared him to Shaq Doorson. Please go ahead and make your case that I’m “overrating” Ogbole by saying he’s at least as good as Doorson.
I suspect it’s because he can, in fact, make over a million somewhere for the reason I stated and RU clearly cannot go that high for a back up.
Hopefully if that’s what happened, we don’t discover too late that we’d have been better off aiming for two 2M PFs and retaining him for 1M. The problem is, the sad reality is we would probably have to pay someone with Ogbole’s metrics and background (senior guy averaging 4-5 points / 6 boards in 19 mpg on a team that struggled) closer to 2M to pick RU as their new destination.
I don’t disagree with you in theory. If you pull the trigger on a center early, it means you over paid. Which is fine but that player must must be a difference maker. I suspect they have offers out to 2-3 centers in the $2-2.5M range. They probably are willing to go up to $3m “if” they have around $10m to spend. That might be an average center. Everyone is waiting for the top centers to sign and set the market. If they don’t land their target guys, they will need to pivot. That may mean signing a wing or the right guard (point or scoring) for $2-2.5M if they are a difference maker. Then they can grab 2 centers in the $1-1.5M range. It’s all fluid and will take quick decisions when the opportunities present themselves.
No - that last part definitely isn’t an option. We couldn’t even win with Dylan Harper at guard and Ace Bailey at SF/wing. That was with Lathan, Martini and Ogbole in the frontcourt. Guys at the level of that front court (those 3 combined) aren’t going to cost under 3M this year. No way.
We are going to get complete garbage in the portal for frontcourt players in the $1M-$1.5M range. Unless it turns out that nobody is actually willing to pay these top guys anything and the whole market comes down. You may be right. Maybe we’re waiting to see if that happens.
And sad part is no one knows how these players will translate into tangible results on the court. Could be a complete waste of money!
Mara wasn’t that great at UCLA transfers to UM and is a stud
Pippen transfers from UM where he was not good and goes to Cal for a breakout year to then sign with Illini this year.
HOw may on these transfers actually pan out?
Mara wasn’t that great at UCLA transfers to UM and is a stud
Pippen transfers from UM where he was not good and goes to Cal for a breakout year to then sign with Illini this year.
HOw may on these transfers actually pan out?
As far as I know EO is awaiting word on getting a waiver for another year. Has that been determined?
With regard to overrating him, I don’t think anyone is doing that. In that regard, I agree with those who say he would be a capable backup center at a reasonable (whatever that means these days) price.
Considering he only plays half the game, he was pretty effective in his role. Many times I felt his presence on defense was important enough to warrant more minutes even if he was not a dominant offensive player.
That said, in his last 10 games he shot a very efficient 25-36 (69%) from the floor (to go along with 52 rebounds and 12 blocks). So he was at least offensively efficient in his role, and showed significant improvement throughout the year.
So answer the question straight up. What made Shaq Doorson a better center than Ogbole?
If you understood the center market the last few years and the type of center you can get for 1-2 million you might not think so
but thanks for being a nice guy
You’re saying no way. I’m saying the options you expect may not be there. If they are not, you have to pivot and find players at other positions.
The quality center market was estimated at $3m and quickly rose to $5m. No one is biting yet. Let’s see where it lands.
Yeah I’m saying the pivot move is still front court oriented. We have nobody to play there at the moment except Ware.
This thread is supporting my exact thoughts last spring and a month ago.....the BEST path for RU, in this environment is to add 4 HS prospects every single cycle, hope 2 or maybe 3 stick.....pay those kids close or current market value and then rinse and repeat the process.
We are only asking for 3 players, with the assumption that we keep or get a player similar to the expected performance of a sophomore guard out of the portal, like Mark, Powers, Francis and JMike Davis.
If we added 2 players slightly better than JMike Davis numbers that he put up this year, are we better.....YES, as long as Mark, Francis and Powers improve.
We have to upgrade on a 1 for 1 basis, with literally every single position, 1 to 13.....
That means we are assuming Mark, Powers improve as sophomores and whatever guards added are at worse, JMike Davis level (7 to 8PPG, 75 to 80% from line, solid defender).
On Grant's replacement, we need someone 4PPG better.
On Ogbole, we need someone 6PPG better than his 3 to.4PPG in B1G games.
On Zrno, we need someone providing more than 50 or so 3s AND better defense.
On Nwuli, Badalau, we need those bench minutes to be quality ones....maybe Buchanan Jr can fill that role off the bench, if we find a starter better than Grant's production.
It "should" work, but the key is you're unlikely to find an impact big man, until you find a BACKUP big man that is also better than Ogbole 1st.
As much as this is about money, the FLOOR level backup big man, needs to be Lathan Sommerville level....not perfect as a 5 man, but capable of 6PPG in 18 minutes a night.....Right now, RU doesnt even have a Sommerville level big man, which is at a minimum 1M as a backup.
You can find a Sommerville level backup 5 man, out of HS, for under 2M.....start with the floor work and get into the 2026 HS market for these holes......its way too expensive in the portal.
We are only asking for 3 players, with the assumption that we keep or get a player similar to the expected performance of a sophomore guard out of the portal, like Mark, Powers, Francis and JMike Davis.
If we added 2 players slightly better than JMike Davis numbers that he put up this year, are we better.....YES, as long as Mark, Francis and Powers improve.
We have to upgrade on a 1 for 1 basis, with literally every single position, 1 to 13.....
That means we are assuming Mark, Powers improve as sophomores and whatever guards added are at worse, JMike Davis level (7 to 8PPG, 75 to 80% from line, solid defender).
On Grant's replacement, we need someone 4PPG better.
On Ogbole, we need someone 6PPG better than his 3 to.4PPG in B1G games.
On Zrno, we need someone providing more than 50 or so 3s AND better defense.
On Nwuli, Badalau, we need those bench minutes to be quality ones....maybe Buchanan Jr can fill that role off the bench, if we find a starter better than Grant's production.
It "should" work, but the key is you're unlikely to find an impact big man, until you find a BACKUP big man that is also better than Ogbole 1st.
As much as this is about money, the FLOOR level backup big man, needs to be Lathan Sommerville level....not perfect as a 5 man, but capable of 6PPG in 18 minutes a night.....Right now, RU doesnt even have a Sommerville level big man, which is at a minimum 1M as a backup.
You can find a Sommerville level backup 5 man, out of HS, for under 2M.....start with the floor work and get into the 2026 HS market for these holes......its way too expensive in the portal.
Way too focused on ppg. Replace Grant w a guy who scores the same, but rebounds and defends better and you are still better. This team leaving was Pike's second best offense ever. Defense needs to be upped, but thus far only a little offense has left.
You have no clue about the center market the last few years then
Mara who was a huge underachiever at UCLA still commanded huge money to Michigan
I have a clue -- you can't spend 4 million of a 9 or 10 million budget on 1 player with no guarantees
Why don't you get a clue and send in a mill or 2 -- you act like RU has the NIL money of a Michican or St Johns.
Probably too late for this strategy (for 26). I imagine most incoming frosh who could help even as a depth piece are already committed now.
Never know. We've already begun this strategy w 7 freshman last year. Guys like Zrno and Badalau didn't jump on board til the end of April, Mid May. There will be Euro adds I'd bet.
I wasn’t considering the Euros “frosh” as the new age rules in review might prevent this strategy, correct? Or is that a year off?
It’s not much different than how the NBA operates its salary cap. MOST of the cap is spent on 2 players and you supplement the rest
I think Pike will/should be shopping for a Euro center. Seems thin pickings at a manageable price point.