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OT: Mobile opening new arena: Regions Arena

615dawg

615dawg

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msudawg12 said:
In Case you missed it, Theo Von roasted Jackson with Mike Rowe after his show at Thalia Mara last year as well.

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I missed that, but it was basically the same sentiment that Dave said.

The nicest thing in downtown Jackson is the convention center and it has no hotel. The best year that convention center has had is a $1.1 million loss. It's been losing $4 million + annually every year since its opened, and I don't think they have had an event without car break ins.

I'm a big fan of Mississippi making a comeback, but they cannot do it without a semi-vibrant Jackson, and I have seen nothing real that tells me the city can come back. The people who could have led the charge have moved to Madison or Rankin county and have not looked back.
 
OG Goat Holder

OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
12,400
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113
greenbean.sixpack said:
I have worked in DT Jxn since 1995. It was a happening place back then, with festivals and people walking all throughout the work day. There were several restaurants scattered around, although almost most had a short life span.

Decades of terrible leadership and professional firms relocating to Highland Colony have resulted in DT being a shell of itself. This all happened before covid. Then covid hit and TW become much more prevalent.

At times, leaders have tried to turn DT into a residential center, but that hasn’t taken off and likely never will.

Frank Melton (who had his own demons) is the last mayor who cared about the city and didn’t see it as a way to enrich himself and friends.

Turning DT in an entertain center (mini Beale St) and building a Beau Rivage type casino are the best hopes, but not likely to happen.
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In all seriousness, what was the change? Obviously know there was the mayoral shift in 1997, but that can’t be the only thing. Demographics had already shifted by then.

I used to say Jackson was 20 years behind Birmingham and Memphis. Bham started the renaissance around 2010-2015. So that’s 2030 for Jackson. But I still don’t think the mechanics are there for Jackhole to revive. There just isn’t enough money guys who actually care.

I was literally shocked at the difference when I moved to Jackson, after living in various other cities around the South.

But maybe the shift was really during that time. When I was in college in early 2000s there was still a heartbeat in Jackson, a few bars here and there, etc. it’s just gone now.
 
greenbean.sixpack

greenbean.sixpack

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OG Goat Holder said:
In all seriousness, what was the change? Obviously know there was the mayoral shift in 1997, but that can’t be the only thing. Demographics had already shifted by then.

I used to say Jackson was 20 years behind Birmingham and Memphis. Bham started the renaissance around 2010-2015. So that’s 2030 for Jackson. But I still don’t think the mechanics are there for Jackhole to revive. There just isn’t enough money guys who actually care.

I was literally shocked at the difference when I moved to Jackson, after living in various other cities around the South.

But maybe the shift was really during that time. When I was in college in early 2000s there was still a heartbeat in Jackson, a few bars here and there, etc. it’s just gone now.
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Several years I ago I heard a Birmingham city leader being interviewed, he stated the city wanted white people to feel welcomed and safe coming into town and spending money. I've never heard a Jxn city leader say that, in fact the former mayor didn't want whitey coming in. The growth in Behaven and Fondren is mostly organic, the city did very little, until recently, to promote those areas.

Jxn let a lot of professional firms and other businesses relocate out of the city, city government did little to entice those business to stay (those businesses are never coming back). Also, one can live in Flowood or Madison and have pretty easy commute into DT Jxn and the hospitals, so why live in Jxn and have to pay for private schools and have to worry about crime when you can live in the burbs with no crime and good public schools?
 
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Pink Floyd.sixpack

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Aug 22, 2012
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How did Jackson falter to get where it is now. In no particular order:

1. No one wants a home in that yazoo clay. Current houses within Jackson are foundational and maintainance nightmares
2. Property taxes are outrageous
3. Schools suck
4. 25 years of nonexistent or downright bad leadership
5. Crime. He’ll someone was found not guilty this week after killing two and paralyzing another in alcohol related crash.

What triggered the slide? The downfall of Worldcom was to me where downtown demise began. While they had the big office out in Clinton there was still a lot of Worldcom jobs in Jackson downtown area as well. Then SkyTel basically wasted away. SunCom was wrestled away from Jackson money. Jackson was on the precipice of being the telecommunications hub of the country, but Ebbers fraud and the others lack of keeping up with the technology started a slide that Jackson is still trying to get out from under. Then 25 years of Stokes didn’t help other than giving us raw booboo and cool SnapBack hats.
 
615dawg

615dawg

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Murrah played Madison Central a couple nights ago in baseball. Madison Central scored 11 in the first inning and 14 in the second inning and won 25-0 in. game called after 2.5 innings. This was a district game. Every district football game Murrah played this season finished with a running clock.

Academically, the school is terrible. When we have to play there for district volleyball games, the girls do not have a place to change and have to make a wall for teammates to change right there behind their bench. The coaches don't know the rules and the officials just let them play because it's easier that way.

Socially, the school may be worse. Last year, a young girl got up in the middle of class after constantly being bullied, walked out of the school, walked to the I-55 overpass at Woodrow Wilson and jumped to her death.

And Murrah might be the best high school in Jackson.

I ask this sincerely - the schools aren't succeeding academically, socially or athletically - what is their purpose other than free baby sitting?

And outside Jackson, Greenville High School had a full on riot this week after kids were denied breakfast. Tear gas had to be deployed in the school gym.
 
OG Goat Holder

OG Goat Holder

Heisman
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Pink Floyd.sixpack said:
How did Jackson falter to get where it is now. In no particular order:

1. No one wants a home in that yazoo clay. Current houses within Jackson are foundational and maintainance nightmares
2. Property taxes are outrageous
3. Schools suck
4. 25 years of nonexistent or downright bad leadership
5. Crime. He’ll someone was found not guilty this week after killing two and paralyzing another in alcohol related crash.

What triggered the slide? The downfall of Worldcom was to me where downtown demise began. While they had the big office out in Clinton there was still a lot of Worldcom jobs in Jackson downtown area as well. Then SkyTel basically wasted away. SunCom was wrestled away from Jackson money. Jackson was on the precipice of being the telecommunications hub of the country, but Ebbers fraud and the others lack of keeping up with the technology started a slide that Jackson is still trying to get out from under. Then 25 years of Stokes didn’t help other than giving us raw booboo and cool SnapBack hats.
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That's actually really depressing to think about what could have been.
 
HotMop

HotMop

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615dawg said:
I was on South Alabama's campus a few weeks ago and man, that place has changed. They are building a brand new medical school, they are building an engineering facility dedicated to serving Airbus, who will be building planes in Mobile. Their basketball arena would be middle of the pack in the SEC, and their football stadium is one of the top five in the G5. Auburn has a Pharmacy school on USA's campus as well.

Its all about leadership. USA hired Jo Bonner to be their President and he has completely changed the place. They waive out of state tuition to Mississippi and Florida residents and they have billboards up throughout the Jackson area recruiting students.

All that to say, Mobile is thriving. Made me look up who their mayor was.

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Airbus will be building planes? Uh, they are building planes.
 
8

8dog

All-American
Feb 23, 2008
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Pink Floyd.sixpack said:
How did Jackson falter to get where it is now. In no particular order:

1. No one wants a home in that yazoo clay. Current houses within Jackson are foundational and maintainance nightmares
2. Property taxes are outrageous
3. Schools suck
4. 25 years of nonexistent or downright bad leadership
5. Crime. He’ll someone was found not guilty this week after killing two and paralyzing another in alcohol related crash.

What triggered the slide? The downfall of Worldcom was to me where downtown demise began. While they had the big office out in Clinton there was still a lot of Worldcom jobs in Jackson downtown area as well. Then SkyTel basically wasted away. SunCom was wrestled away from Jackson money. Jackson was on the precipice of being the telecommunications hub of the country, but Ebbers fraud and the others lack of keeping up with the technology started a slide that Jackson is still trying to get out from under. Then 25 years of Stokes didn’t help other than giving us raw booboo and cool SnapBack hats.
Click to expand...
Yazoo Clay isn’t limited to city borders
 
L

leeinator

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Feb 24, 2014
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OG Goat Holder said:
I wanted to come back to this, as it's more valid than we're giving it credit.

Mobile has the best of all worlds. It's a port city with a major river. It has the benefit of the water, yet it's tucked back off the actual coast, which gives it protection from hurricanes. And, it has access to true vacation beaches in Baldwin County.

Then take Gulfport/Biloxi, arguably MS' best place to live and work in a semi-urban built up area. It's RIGHT on the water, thus susceptible to hurricanes. Then you take into account that most Coast people go East or West to do their shopping and entertainment. And two major coast employers, Stennis and Ingall's, likely have a workforce also coming from East and West. Then of course, you have no natural tourist beaches. It's like a no-win situation. So while our Coast has its cool factor and its casinos, it's always going to be limited by all those factors, especially compared to the NOLA and Mobile Metros. Just like anywhere in MS, you'll have to attract people who want the laid back lifestyle, and are alright without the city amenities. That's fine, but for a hundred years in the US growth has been concentrated in urban areas and cities.

Mobile's not perfect, though. They are messing up their airport situation for sure. But it's got a strong core. That's why I always come back to the Jackson Metro being the real 'chance' we have at that urban area, because it's got the state government and, at minimum, is the business center for central MS. But without that urban core it's always just going to be a suburban mess with no identity, and people will only live there because they have to, i.e. a job, being close to family, etc. Geography will always be a killer, though. People love to talk about access but it's still 3 friggin' hours to Memphis and NOLA and a haul to DFW, Houston, Atlanta and Nashville. Dang near 2 hours just to even get to Starkville.
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We're just in one of those "out of the way" locations that takes a little doing to get to it. Manhattan, KS is the same way. There are some others too. I think it would have been better if we could have been combined with MUW and be in Columbus. With the AFB there, the TB river and lock & dam, and the GTR airport, it could have been similar to Hattiesburg in size, and other amenities.
 
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MuffinMafia

Redshirt
Sep 9, 2019
6
7
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greenbean.sixpack said:
I have worked in DT Jxn since 1995. It was a happening place back then, with festivals and people walking all throughout the work day. There were several restaurants scattered around, although almost most had a short life span.

Decades of terrible leadership and professional firms relocating to Highland Colony have resulted in DT being a shell of itself. This all happened before covid. Then covid hit and TW become much more prevalent.

At times, leaders have tried to turn DT into a residential center, but that hasn’t taken off and likely never will.

Frank Melton (who had his own demons) is the last mayor who cared about the city and didn’t see it as a way to enrich himself and friends.

Turning DT in an entertain center (mini Beale St) and building a Beau Rivage type casino are the best hopes, but not likely to happen.
Click to expand...
Agreed on all of this. I will say I went out in downtown Jackson and Belhaven this past weekend- I was pleasantly surprised at the progress since I was there last 4-5 years ago. Most noticeably the amount of people I saw WALKING and having a good time was encouraging to see. Credit to capitol police and our business owners for putting in the work to make it a thing again. This should be a mixed use space for both residential and retail. I would tend to agree they need a whole new entertainment district and anchoring it with a coliseum or arena would be a homerun that would pay dividends for the future of the city.
 
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johnson86-1

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OG Goat Holder said:
I wanted to come back to this, as it's more valid than we're giving it credit.

Mobile has the best of all worlds. It's a port city with a major river. It has the benefit of the water, yet it's tucked back off the actual coast, which gives it protection from hurricanes. And, it has access to true vacation beaches in Baldwin County.

Then take Gulfport/Biloxi, arguably MS' best place to live and work in a semi-urban built up area. It's RIGHT on the water, thus susceptible to hurricanes. Then you take into account that most Coast people go East or West to do their shopping and entertainment. And two major coast employers, Stennis and Ingall's, likely have a workforce also coming from East and West. Then of course, you have no natural tourist beaches. It's like a no-win situation. So while our Coast has its cool factor and its casinos, it's always going to be limited by all those factors, especially compared to the NOLA and Mobile Metros. Just like anywhere in MS, you'll have to attract people who want the laid back lifestyle, and are alright without the city amenities. That's fine, but for a hundred years in the US growth has been concentrated in urban areas and cities.

Mobile's not perfect, though. They are messing up their airport situation for sure. But it's got a strong core. That's why I always come back to the Jackson Metro being the real 'chance' we have at that urban area, because it's got the state government and, at minimum, is the business center for central MS. But without that urban core it's always just going to be a suburban mess with no identity, and people will only live there because they have to, i.e. a job, being close to family, etc. Geography will always be a killer, though. People love to talk about access but it's still 3 friggin' hours to Memphis and NOLA and a haul to DFW, Houston, Atlanta and Nashville. Dang near 2 hours just to even get to Starkville.
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Mississippi has tons of self inflicted injuries, but we really did get the short end of the stick geographically. We don't have a good natural port, so we're behind New Orleans and Mobile (although Mobile's isn't great either; it's better). Memphis has the bluffs that made it attractive for a major inland port. We didn't get any great ore deposits (so we didn't have a coal or steel industry to help boost growth like Birmingham). Our interior rivers aren't big enough to modern barge transportation. Our oil and gas was short lived and close enough to Louisiana deposits that a lot of the expertise associated with it was based in Louisiana. We got screwed on the delineation between Louisiana and Mississippi waters, so we don't have the gulf drilling or even the recreation that a lot of the marsh provides. Our barrier islands are too far out to create a tourist hotspot (and if they were closer, the river water would probably ensure their water is never clear rather than it being sometimes clear. I don't know why we did such a terrible job developing vicksburg. I get why Greenville is the way it is, but how did Vicksburg lose out on damn near everything river related? Outside of Golding Barge, I don't know that we have any significant maritime players based there anymore.

We just got the short end of the stick. if you look around us, there's basically no decent city without a clear reason why it was able to develop. Up and down Mississippi's border, it's mostly sparse on either side of the state line except where some of those areas with clear natural advantages.
 
J

johnson86-1

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615dawg said:
And Murrah might be the best high school in Jackson.

I ask this sincerely - the schools aren't succeeding academically, socially or athletically - what is their purpose other than free baby sitting?
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From what I can tell from the school choice discussion from this past session, it's some combination of:

(1) a jobs program
(2) a place to warehouse students that affluent people in good school districts don't want around their kids
(3) a budget saver for the state by ensuring that lots of parents just give up and pay private school rather than relocating, so the state gets to avoid spending money educating them.
 
OG Goat Holder

OG Goat Holder

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johnson86-1 said:
Mississippi has tons of self inflicted injuries, but we really did get the short end of the stick geographically. We don't have a good natural port, so we're behind New Orleans and Mobile (although Mobile's isn't great either; it's better). Memphis has the bluffs that made it attractive for a major inland port. We didn't get any great ore deposits (so we didn't have a coal or steel industry to help boost growth like Birmingham). Our interior rivers aren't big enough to modern barge transportation. Our oil and gas was short lived and close enough to Louisiana deposits that a lot of the expertise associated with it was based in Louisiana. We got screwed on the delineation between Louisiana and Mississippi waters, so we don't have the gulf drilling or even the recreation that a lot of the marsh provides. Our barrier islands are too far out to create a tourist hotspot (and if they were closer, the river water would probably ensure their water is never clear rather than it being sometimes clear. I don't know why we did such a terrible job developing vicksburg. I get why Greenville is the way it is, but how did Vicksburg lose out on damn near everything river related? Outside of Golding Barge, I don't know that we have any significant maritime players based there anymore.

We just got the short end of the stick. if you look around us, there's basically no decent city without a clear reason why it was able to develop. Up and down Mississippi's border, it's mostly sparse on either side of the state line except where some of those areas with clear natural advantages.
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We really, REALLY needed Memphis. It's a Mississippi city at heart. That's what really sucks.

Then, the other thing is that MSU should have been located in Vicksburg, Jackson or Meridian.

Those are about the only things I see that could have maybe changed the fortunes, even if slightly.
 
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johnson86-1

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615dawg said:
Obviously Jackson has to do more with ICE (infrastructure, crime and education) before we start talking about a new arena, but I just found it interesting. Mobile is a city that a decade ago I would have put in the same category as Jackson and Shreveport, and they have been able to improve greatly.
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Yup. It wouldn't happen overnight, but it would be pretty simple (if not politically easy or maybe even politically possible) for the state to make Jackson a solid city to live in. All they need is:
(1) Regional water and sewer utility that Jackson can only have a minority interest on the board (really a small minority in case you see other cities participating turning dumb)
(2) Expand authority in CID to cover roads and sidewalks.
(3) Expand authority of CID to have its own court system, set up to ensure something more like Madison sentencing instead of Hinds County catch and release.
(4) School vouchers within the City of Jackson (we're not going to have the incomes in Jackson to allow it to thrive if families can't live there and get a decent education without making enough to drop $175k+ per kid to get them from k - 12th grade).

You do those four things, and it will grow and improve. Maybe slowly at first, but it would happen.
 
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