And this strategy potentially has cost us one national championship already. He has to adapt. Penn State is not just winning titles, they are breaking scoring records every year.
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- Thread starter Pokes1988
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I see that point - Hamiti and Hendrickson winning national championships sparked the excitement and showed what DT can do for your career. Spratley making finals. Fish making AA.
However, I think DT would still have been able to produce a Top-10 team and recruit like he did. He IS that guy. We will never know.
Taylor is not trying to win 1 championship, one year, he's trying to win them all. He did exactly what he should have done to hype the program to the moon and get the best recruits in the world to come here. You can't do that by taking a year off and redshirting everybody.
Sorry, but you are contradictory in the post.
If he would’ve punted in year 1, it changes who is in the room now, the culture put in place and RS years are actually counterproductive to mentality.
rising tide lifts all ships. If Taylor just keeps building YoY a championship will eventually come
Anyone trying to tell DT how to handle the team is laughable at this point. DT is light years ahead of us and has produced multiple champs in 2 years and made OSU exciting again he has started a tsunami that will hit PSU at some point just get behind the program and be excited. Let’s FFFFF go
This is idiotic.
Then he would have redshirted ALL of the guys in preparation for 2028. Get real dude.
Don’t pay attention to him, he bi+ches about everything.
What? No, man. That's speculation at best. It worked for Penn State in the early 2010s partially because there was no Penn State. Much has changed. There was parity at NCAAs. Post-grads weren't getting paid a living wage to train in a college room. Stud recruits weren't getting promised that same living wage. Minnesota, Iowa, and OSU traded titles for the past many decades. High school students weren't beating world champions. Every match ever wasn't available with a few clicks. Beating them now requires a different strategy.
I cannot argue with the first part of your statement. It is a very strong argument that we don't get the super recruits we did without the amazing momentum and excitement generated from DT's first year. I disagree on the second part. And I'm up for the criticism. Cael did this and it paid off. 2025, 2026 and 2027 were/are not normal years. The regular rules do not apply. We scored 131 (really 133) which was enough to win 12/20 past national championships and we got beat by FIFTY points. I am only advocating for this for one year. For two reasons, to clear out this PSU super team, and take advantage of the best freshman class in NCAA history. Our freshman class is unique. Never happened before. So your theory does not apply. I want it to have three years, not two, of having a chance to win the team national championship.
Also I am not bitching, moaning, complaining, or even remotely suggesting I know what is best over our head coach. It's just an alternate theory for discussion on a message board. I think copying what Cael Sanderson did and has done is a good idea. David Taylor has done an unbelievable job so far, and brought so much excitement to the program.
LMAO, I am NOT bitching. I'm having a blast with what's going on. It's been an amazing, fun past two years. The program couldn't be in better shape. I am on the record stating the only thing I care about is a team national championship. And as awesome as the first two years have been we are still world's away from that. I think we can win three straight starting in 2028 and it's just an IDEA on how to. On a message board by someone who doesn't know what he's talking about discussing it with other people who have no idea what they're talking about either. There are no experts on here. It's mostly just friendly discussions between wrestling fans. I eat crow with the best of them, admit when I am wrong, and own every bad take.
Agreed. My idea is that in order to beat a super team you have to build a super team and also wait for the other super team to show some weaknesses. Looking ahead with what we have and have coming our roster looks insane in 2028 and 2029. Could we find a way to keep that going in 2029 as well with this current class? That's all I'm saying. We aren't winning next year. We will get 2nd, 3rd, or 4th probably. We could redshirt some key guys and still get Top-5 and preserve them for 2030. I also don't think they will leave. I believe they all want to wrestle for David Taylor and we have the NIL budget to keep them here. I think our only transfers out will be logjam guys. I am betting my theory on the strength of the freshman class. It's the very best ever. I do not think it will ever be duplicated. To me it presents a unique opportunity.
I know some of the smarter posters here can build out the next four years rosters with the ideal situations that would have us winning 2028-30. Last thing I will say, and bash away, is this is just for fun. Not trying to piss anyone off. I do linger on the shoulda/woulda/coulda too long.
I know very well the inverse of this stupid theory is wrestle the best team every year and it builds and builds and we bust through in 2028 and win and win again in 2029 and because of that we dominate recruiting every year and it snowballs. And we replace Penn State as Kings. I hope that happens and I take all kinds of shig from everyone. The end.
Own this one then.
If we dong have the performance of last season, we don’t have a few recruits, a TON less money and a completely different culture.
Does you argument make sense, yes. Is it accurate in the big picture, nope.
What is building started with a “don’t back down” belief. An “I win national Titles” mindset. Punting and not pushing for it would’ve been a mistake. Also for the record, a mistake I wanted us to make! I’m glad David didn’t listen to me.
I get what you're saying about redshirting a bunch of guys but that's not the culture Taylor wants to build. He wants the mindset of everyone on the team to be I can win a title now.
I think you really have to consider the other factors that play into winning a National Championship as a team. The biggest one is injuries, not just to the Cowboys but if one or two of PSU wrestlers have a significant injury and OSU isn't wrestling their best lineup they will miss an opportunity. Upsets happen every year at the NCAAs, you just never know. The transfer portal definitely changes the game and I don't think you will see the big players play the redshirt game anymore unless their athlete isn't ready to win. Cael played that card a decade ago and a lot has changed since then.
I was with Coach Taylor (briefly) the day the Raney's committed. There were conditions from the Father that David thought were reasonable. These kids want to wrestle. I am not saying they would not redshirt, but they have choices. David Taylor honors his word!
That's good to know. Do you think this means that both want to be in the lineup their first year?
They both want gold medals at the Olympics. The Dad wants them in an environment that strengthens that possibility.
That is Oklahoma State.
That is Oklahoma State.
I’ve thought about this. The hype train wouldn’t be moving
Do we really want him though? We have Dee, Facundo, Ryder, Routledge all for 157-174. He just has 1 year of eligibility still.
No, I agree. I think I have created this fantasy world in my head where David Taylor would have everything he did regardless of how we did the first year and that's just not realistic. Hamiti and Hendrickson winning NCs were big surprises. Both had to beat two previous big-name national champions to earn their titles. Hendrickson produced one of the biggest moments ever in the sport. The amount of excitement and attention created from that first tournament was worth a bajillion in marketing and advertising and recruiting value. It lit the fuse that sparked perhaps the greatest recruiting class ever, and built even more momentum into an amazing tournament this year. My mind also can't comprehend how you can have a team as good as we had this year and still lose by 50 frickin points. That's insane. I'm over it and won't say another word about it. I apologize if I offended or upset anyone.
You don't need to apologize. It is a fair point. I am squarely on the side of thinking that DT made the correct decision to go full send his first year. But we have no idea what would happen in an alternate universe. Two things can be true: (1) DT absolutely made the correct decision; and (2) What would have happened if we redshirted everyone and "punted" Year 1 is one of the most interesting what-ifs in program history.
You're good dude, we all share your passion! Here's how you can have your cake and eat it too.
Cael looked at the system and built a new one. Bringing senior level, college level, and high school level athletes together changed the game completely. Preaching health, presence of mind, and gratitude. Stacking studs at weights and being a center for all things wrestling.
DT is building a new one too. We're just seeing the beginning of it. He adopted Cael's innovations on Day One. Plus he's adding his own. Full send every year? Nobody does that. Bring a HS kid in early? Nobody does that. Doing whole-@$$ behind the scenes documentaries with multiple hours of tightly edited footage showing highs, lows, teaching moments, successes, warmups, goofing around? Nobody does that. The combination of pinfetti, free high-level tailgating, theme nights, raised mats, walk-outs, mat-level seating, upper level blackouts at GIA? Nobody does that. It's awesome dude. Soak it in!
I honestly don't think so.
I am enjoying the ride, so it is a jaded line of thinking.
But, we didn't trade a chance at a national title. There is a more than likely chance we wouldn't score 180.
-Plott at 84 could have scored less points
-Cam in RS might've sent Dee to ISU? 65 was also tougher this year IMO.
-DJ would've probably had the same result.
-Wyatt would've probably had the same result.
-We would 100% wouldn't have had the buzz around the Program.
*we still would've signed most of the guys except maybe the Raney's, but it is likely we would've faced some competition.