That $200 Billion in war funding may be hard to get

LafayetteBear

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Apparently, Lisa Murkowski is "a very difficult person." Indeed, she is "a very terrible person, to be honest with you." So saith Cheeto Pedo, who is growing increasingly agitated with the Iranian War he started and with the failure of Republicans to support him unqualifiedly. As noted in the article linked below,

It probably wasn’t a coincidence that the president condemned Murkowski as “difficult” and a “very terrible person” right around the time she decided that it’s time for Congress to start exercising some of its atrophied muscles related to war powers.

What’s more, courage is often contagious on Capitol Hill, and just five days after Murkowski talked about her efforts, Republican Sen. John Curtis of Utah wrote an op-ed for The Deseret News in which he expressed general support for the mission in Iran, but fleshed out his expectations for Congress’ role.

"I will not support ongoing military action beyond a 60-day window without congressional approval. … I cannot support funding for continued military operations without Congress having the opportunity to weigh in.”

In between Murkowski’s comments and the publication of Curtis’ piece, Republican Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky said he would oppose the administration’s request for an extra $200 billion for the war.

“I won’t vote for the supplemental, because I don’t want the war to continue,” Paul told CBS News.


Republicans currently hold a 53-47 edge in the Senate. (Angus King and Bernie Sanders are officially "Independent," but they caucus with the Democrats.) So losing three Republican senators puts passage of a supplemental for war funding in doubt. Who knows, though? Maybe John Fetterman will come to the Repos' aid once again.

Here is the link to the full article:
 

baltimorened

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Apparently, Lisa Murkowski is "a very difficult person." Indeed, she is "a very terrible person, to be honest with you." So saith Cheeto Pedo, who is growing increasingly agitated with the Iranian War he started and with the failure of Republicans to support him unqualifiedly. As noted in the article linked below,

It probably wasn’t a coincidence that the president condemned Murkowski as “difficult” and a “very terrible person” right around the time she decided that it’s time for Congress to start exercising some of its atrophied muscles related to war powers.

What’s more, courage is often contagious on Capitol Hill, and just five days after Murkowski talked about her efforts, Republican Sen. John Curtis of Utah wrote an op-ed for The Deseret News in which he expressed general support for the mission in Iran, but fleshed out his expectations for Congress’ role.

"I will not support ongoing military action beyond a 60-day window without congressional approval. … I cannot support funding for continued military operations without Congress having the opportunity to weigh in.”

In between Murkowski’s comments and the publication of Curtis’ piece, Republican Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky said he would oppose the administration’s request for an extra $200 billion for the war.

“I won’t vote for the supplemental, because I don’t want the war to continue,” Paul told CBS News.


Republicans currently hold a 53-47 edge in the Senate. (Angus King and Bernie Sanders are officially "Independent," but they caucus with the Democrats.) So losing three Republican senators puts passage of a supplemental for war funding in doubt. Who knows, though? Maybe John Fetterman will come to the Repos' aid once again.

Here is the link to the full article:
trump needs to follow the laws..by the way, doesn't the fact that your referenced senator won't support the war "beyond 60 days" somewhat eliminate/negate the statements by other Democrat senators calling the war "illegal"? Why would they use that word if they know that the war powers act gives the president the authority for what he did?
 

FLaw47

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trump needs to follow the laws..by the way, doesn't the fact that your referenced senator won't support the war "beyond 60 days" somewhat eliminate/negate the statements by other Democrat senators calling the war "illegal"? Why would they use that word if they know that the war powers act gives the president the authority for what he did?

There are multiple ways something can be illegal. If I steal something from someone, it's not legal just because I didn't break into their house to do it.
 

baltimorened

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There are multiple ways something can be illegal. If I steal something from someone, it's not legal just because I didn't break into their house to do it.
ok, lost me here. Stealing is illegal. Might be a difference in degree, but illegal is illegal. Of course if you break into a hole then you add "breaking and entering".

To me, it's just hypocritical (not that this is unusual from members of Congress) for someone, regardless of party to call "illegal" when a leader of the opposite party does something that a leader of their party did in the past, and for which they stood silent or even supported.

These people know the war powers act. And, watch, if this war goes beyond the 60 days allowed, they would be the first to bring up that fact and that Trump is violating the law.
 

FLaw47

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ok, lost me here. Stealing is illegal. Might be a difference in degree, but illegal is illegal. Of course if you break into a hole then you add "breaking and entering".

To me, it's just hypocritical (not that this is unusual from members of Congress) for someone, regardless of party to call "illegal" when a leader of the opposite party does something that a leader of their party did in the past, and for which they stood silent or even supported.

These people know the war powers act. And, watch, if this war goes beyond the 60 days allowed, they would be the first to bring up that fact and that Trump is violating the law.

I'm not going to profess to have a deep understanding of the laws and arguments on this topic so I'm operating theoretically here. The president may have the power to do this sort of thing for 60 days but may separately be committing war crimes or violating laws about how much they communicate with Congress on the issue. So the war (or actions around the war) could very well still be illegal. I should have spelled that sentiment out instead of giving my pithy analogy.
 

baltimorened

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I'm not going to profess to have a deep understanding of the laws and arguments on this topic so I'm operating theoretically here. The president may have the power to do this sort of thing for 60 days but may separately be committing war crimes or violating laws about how much they communicate with Congress on the issue. So the war (or actions around the war) could very well still be illegal. I should have spelled that sentiment out instead of giving my pithy analogy.
no problem for me...here's my thoughts though....we bombed the crap out of Hanoi during Vietnam, we have subsequently bombed other places..Libya, Syria ( I can't remember all of them) and those bombings included bridges and power plants. Nobody has ever been charged with a war crime. Heck, Iran wasn't charged with any crime when they bombed what was basically a dormitory housing US Marines.

I do know though that installations that have a dual military/civilian use are legitimate military targets - those include power plants, bridges, roads, water facilities - the things we're targeting.

I personally hope it doesn't come tho the bridges/power plants, because the civilians will be decades just getting back to normal lives without them.
 

FLaw47

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no problem for me...here's my thoughts though....we bombed the crap out of Hanoi during Vietnam, we have subsequently bombed other places..Libya, Syria ( I can't remember all of them) and those bombings included bridges and power plants. Nobody has ever been charged with a war crime. Heck, Iran wasn't charged with any crime when they bombed what was basically a dormitory housing US Marines.

I do know though that installations that have a dual military/civilian use are legitimate military targets - those include power plants, bridges, roads, water facilities - the things we're targeting.

I personally hope it doesn't come tho the bridges/power plants, because the civilians will be decades just getting back to normal lives without them.

All I was really getting at is just because it's not necessarily legal just because it doesn't violate on part of the War Powers Act.

Internationally we don't charge for a lot of war crimes. We can call that good or bad. But a failure to charge doesn't make it legal (and I'm not calling out any specifics).

Why would it have been a war crime to target US Military members in a "dorm"? Asking genuinely.
 

baltimorened

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All I was really getting at is just because it's not necessarily legal just because it doesn't violate on part of the War Powers Act.

Internationally we don't charge for a lot of war crimes. We can call that good or bad. But a failure to charge doesn't make it legal (and I'm not calling out any specifics).

Why would it have been a war crime to target US Military members in a "dorm"? Asking genuinely.
they were there as part of an international peacekeeping mission
 

FLaw47

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they were there as part of an international peacekeeping mission

Can you give me more specifics on particular attack (where and when so I can do some research?) My understanding is that killing UN Peacekeepers is a warm crime but I can't say that's what happened here.

I hope it goes without saying but I don't like killing people even if it's not a war crime.
 

1Clemson

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ok, lost me here. Stealing is illegal. Might be a difference in degree, but illegal is illegal. Of course if you break into a hole then you add "breaking and entering".

To me, it's just hypocritical (not that this is unusual from members of Congress) for someone, regardless of party to call "illegal" when a leader of the opposite party does something that a leader of their party did in the past, and for which they stood silent or even supported.

These people know the war powers act. And, watch, if this war goes beyond the 60 days allowed, they would be the first to bring up that fact and that Trump is violating the law.
I believe the 60 day period was to allow the President to respond to a quickly emerging situation. Iran was not quickly emerging, Trump decided when to start- he had plenty of time to get Congressional approval or maybe even support from allies; however, his ego and carelessness has brought everyone to this point.
 

kidmike41

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Apparently, Lisa Murkowski is "a very difficult person." Indeed, she is "a very terrible person, to be honest with you." So saith Cheeto Pedo, who is growing increasingly agitated with the Iranian War he started and with the failure of Republicans to support him unqualifiedly. As noted in the article linked below,

It probably wasn’t a coincidence that the president condemned Murkowski as “difficult” and a “very terrible person” right around the time she decided that it’s time for Congress to start exercising some of its atrophied muscles related to war powers.

What’s more, courage is often contagious on Capitol Hill, and just five days after Murkowski talked about her efforts, Republican Sen. John Curtis of Utah wrote an op-ed for The Deseret News in which he expressed general support for the mission in Iran, but fleshed out his expectations for Congress’ role.

"I will not support ongoing military action beyond a 60-day window without congressional approval. … I cannot support funding for continued military operations without Congress having the opportunity to weigh in.”

In between Murkowski’s comments and the publication of Curtis’ piece, Republican Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky said he would oppose the administration’s request for an extra $200 billion for the war.

“I won’t vote for the supplemental, because I don’t want the war to continue,” Paul told CBS News.


Republicans currently hold a 53-47 edge in the Senate. (Angus King and Bernie Sanders are officially "Independent," but they caucus with the Democrats.) So losing three Republican senators puts passage of a supplemental for war funding in doubt. Who knows, though? Maybe John Fetterman will come to the Repos' aid once again.

Here is the link to the full article:
I would love to see a war powers resolution come back up. I hope the Democrats support it. We know Lady G won't.
 

baltimorened

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Can you give me more specifics on particular attack (where and when so I can do some research?) My understanding is that killing UN Peacekeepers is a warm crime but I can't say that's what happened here.

I hope it goes without saying but I don't like killing people even if it's not a war crime.
1984, Beirut
 

baltimorened

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I believe the 60 day period was to allow the President to respond to a quickly emerging situation. Iran was not quickly emerging, Trump decided when to start- he had plenty of time to get Congressional approval or maybe even support from allies; however, his ego and carelessness has brought everyone to this point.
I'm going to guess trump had a better idea of timelines than you or I....so you go to Congress, doesn't that eliminate any element of surprise and put our military at risk?

Don't look to me for approval or disapproval. I wasn't present for discussions, so I don't know the parameters that were presented. We elect leaders and expect them to make decisions they deem are in our best interests. I do know that presidents for decades have told us that Iran would never be allowed to have a nuclear weapon. I guess Trump really meant it...but that yet remains to be seen
 

1Clemson

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I'm going to guess trump had a better idea of timelines than you or I....so you go to Congress, doesn't that eliminate any element of surprise and put our military at risk?

Don't look to me for approval or disapproval. I wasn't present for discussions, so I don't know the parameters that were presented. We elect leaders and expect them to make decisions they deem are in our best interests. I do know that presidents for decades have told us that Iran would never be allowed to have a nuclear weapon. I guess Trump really meant it...but that yet remains to be seen
What element of surprise? He all but announced the hour.
 
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LafayetteBear

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"I will bomb everything! Their civilization will end tonight!"

Yeah, give that man another $200 Billion. Great idea. 🐘 🤡 :cool:
 

baltimorened

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Thanks. That was before I was born so my knowledge is fleeting. It seems like there's reasonably broad agreement that this was a war crime. I'm not happy about it having happened, war crime or not.
before you were born??? I was just about retired from the Army :).

My oldest was about to enter college.

That's why we don't see eye to eye on everything (but get along) I have experienced these same, or similar things through Eisenhower, JFK, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and likely Clinton before you started involvement in all this political stuff. I'm more immune to the BS, plus I've likely had significantly more life experiences....and I guess I'm, also likely, not to live through the consequences as long as the rest of you will - although my grandchildren will and that concerns me.
 

ANEW

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Thanks. That was before I was born so my knowledge is fleeting. It seems like there's reasonably broad agreement that this was a war crime. I'm not happy about it having happened, war crime or not.
Lots of iraninan backed terror in the 1980s agains the us and others. The torture and killings of William Buckley and William Higgens was by many opens source accounts especially brutal and depraved. Animals.

AI
Major Bombing Attacks
  • 1983 U.S. Embassy Bombing (April 18): A suicide bomber drove an explosives-laden van into the embassy building, killing 63 people, including 17 Americans. It is widely cited as the first major attack by religious radicals on a U.S. diplomatic mission.
  • 1983 Beirut Barracks Bombings (October 23): Coordinated suicide truck bombings struck the barracks of the U.S. and French contingents of the MNF.
    • U.S. Marine Barracks: 241 U.S. service members (including 220 Marines) were killed, marking the deadliest single-day loss for the Marine Corps since Iwo Jima.
    • French "Drakkar" Barracks: 58 French paratroopers were killed in a simultaneous explosion just minutes later.
  • 1984 U.S. Embassy Annex Bombing (September 20): After the embassy was moved to a more secure annex in East Beirut, Hezbollah detonated another car bomb, killing 23 people, including two American service members
Kidnappings and Hijackings
  • Kidnapping of William Buckley (March 1984): Islamic Jihad kidnapped the CIA station chief in Beirut; he was subsequently tortured and killed the following year.
  • TWA Flight 847 Hijacking (June 1985): Hezbollah operatives hijacked a flight en route from Athens to Rome, forcing it to land in Beirut. During the 17-day standoff, they murdered U.S. Navy diver Robert Stethem and dumped his body on the tarmac.
  • Lebanon Hostage Crisis (1982–1992): Throughout the decade, Iran-backed groups systematically kidnapped approximately 100 foreign hostages, including academics and journalists, many of whom were held in Beirut.
  • Kidnapping of Col. William Higgins (February 1988): U.S. Marine Col. Higgins, serving with the UN, was kidnapped and later murdered by a Hezbollah-aligned splinter group.
 
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baltimorened

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Lots of iraninan backed terror in the 1980s agains the us and others. The torture and killings of William Buckley and William Higgens was by many opens source accounts especially brutal and depraved. Animals.

AI
Major Bombing Attacks
  • 1983 U.S. Embassy Bombing (April 18): A suicide bomber drove an explosives-laden van into the embassy building, killing 63 people, including 17 Americans. It is widely cited as the first major attack by religious radicals on a U.S. diplomatic mission.
  • 1983 Beirut Barracks Bombings (October 23):Coordinated suicide truck bombings struck the barracks of the U.S. and French contingents of the MNF.
    • U.S. Marine Barracks: 241 U.S. service members (including 220 Marines) were killed, marking the deadliest single-day loss for the Marine Corps since Iwo Jima.
    • French "Drakkar" Barracks: 58 French paratroopers were killed in a simultaneous explosion just minutes later.
  • 1984 U.S. Embassy Annex Bombing (September 20): After the embassy was moved to a more secure annex in East Beirut, Hezbollah detonated another car bomb, killing 23 people, including two American service members
Kidnappings and Hijackings
  • Kidnapping of William Buckley (March 1984): Islamic Jihad kidnapped the CIA station chief in Beirut; he was subsequently tortured and killed the following year.
  • TWA Flight 847 Hijacking (June 1985): Hezbollah operatives hijacked a flight en route from Athens to Rome, forcing it to land in Beirut. During the 17-day standoff, they murdered U.S. Navy diver Robert Stethem and dumped his body on the tarmac.
  • Lebanon Hostage Crisis (1982–1992): Throughout the decade, Iran-backed groups systematically kidnapped approximately 100 foreign hostages, including academics and journalists, many of whom were held in Beirut.
  • Kidnapping of Col. William Higgins (February 1988): U.S. Marine Col. Higgins, serving with the UN, was kidnapped and later murdered by a Hezbollah-aligned splinter group.
and you left out the 444 days the Iranians held Americans hostage in 1979
 

FLaw47

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before you were born??? I was just about retired from the Army :).

My oldest was about to enter college.

That's why we don't see eye to eye on everything (but get along) I have experienced these same, or similar things through Eisenhower, JFK, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and likely Clinton before you started involvement in all this political stuff. I'm more immune to the BS, plus I've likely had significantly more life experiences....and I guess I'm, also likely, not to live through the consequences as long as the rest of you will - although my grandchildren will and that concerns me.

I'll concede that our different lived experiences and the amount of those experiences certainly affect how we see the world but I'm not willing to chalk it all up to that. My late paternal grandfather was born in 1917. He lived through the Depression, fought at Anzio in WWII, and started a company that's still around today. I cannot fathom that he'd have ever voted for Donald Trump (but what do I know).

In my defense, I've hit most of the transformative milestones. I own my house, I'm married, I have two kids, a big boy job, and have had all of my grandparents die. I don't think there's a lot left that's extremely likely to update my overall world view (WWIII certainly could, I reckon).
 

1Clemson

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of the February attack?. I take your word for it, but I didn't see anything ahead of time...although I do go to be early...early bird and worm thing
Announced in January that Iranian citizens should be ready to overthrow government "bombs would be on the way". While negotiating the day before the bombing (and getting what we sought) announced that bombing was still on the table. He has been fixated on renewing the attacks since his 'complete destruction of Iran's nuclear capabilities' last June. There are clinical terms for his behavior- delusional, habitual liar, narcissist, and crazy as batsh!t.
 
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baltimorened

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Announced in January that Iranian citizens should be ready to overthrow government "bombs would be on the way". While negotiating the day before the bombing (and getting what we sought) announced that bombing was still on the table. He has been fixated on renewing the attacks since his 'complete destruction of Iran's nuclear capabilities' last June. There are clinical terms for his behavior- delusional, habitual liar, narcissist, and crazy as batsh!t.
ok, I see what you meant...you weren't referring to the exact date...
 

1Clemson

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ok, I see what you meant...you weren't referring to the exact date...
Authorization for action from Congress wouldn't have required the exact date either. It would have also strengthened his negotiating position, same with getting a couple key allies on board. Israel decided thew day and hour.