My thoughts on Big East expansion

With some AI help here is my argument for who should be included in Big East expansion. This is not whether we SHOULD expand. This assumes we are and identifies the most natural teams and how many teams should be added. Due to character limitations, this must be divided into several posts. Hope you enjoy.


Which Teams Should Be Added + Rationale

From a basketball perspective, Saint Louis University, University of Dayton, and Virginia Commonwealth University represent the most natural fits for expansion by the Big East Conference because they align with the core characteristics that have historically defined the league: a strong basketball-first culture, passionate fan bases, urban or regional markets with deep basketball interest, and institutions whose athletic identities are centered primarily on men’s basketball rather than major football programs. The Big East has long succeeded as a conference precisely because its members prioritize basketball as their flagship sport, and these three programs operate within that same cultural framework. Gonzaga University has been excluded because, although they would be the number one candidate, their geographical location makes inclusion likely to be impractical.

One reason these three schools fit particularly well is that each program has demonstrated sustained competitive success in modern college basketball. Dayton has been one of the most consistently strong programs outside the traditional power conferences over the past two decades, regularly competing for NCAA tournament bids and developing a reputation for strong player development and disciplined team basketball. VCU, meanwhile, has become one of the most recognizable mid-major basketball brands in the country since its Final Four run in 2011, and its program continues to produce high-level defensive teams and energetic fan support. Saint Louis has also maintained a competitive program with regular postseason appearances and strong recruiting pipelines. Collectively, these schools would add depth to the Big East’s basketball competition, increasing the number of programs capable of competing for NCAA tournament bids and strengthening the overall national perception of the conference. A bulleted list of the accomplishments of each programs over the past 20 years is as follows.

University of Dayton:

• 7 NCAA Tournament appearances (2009, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2021, 2024)
• 2014 Elite Eight appearance — defeated Ohio State, Syracuse, and Stanford
• Multiple NCAA Tournament wins (one of the most successful A-10 programs in March)
• 2020 team ranked #3 nationally before the NCAA tournament was cancelled due to COVID
• Obi Toppin National Player of the Year (2020)
• Multiple Atlantic 10 regular season championships
• Consistently among the top national attendance leaders in college basketball
• UD Arena widely considered one of the best home atmospheres in college basketball

Virginia Commonwealth University:

• 14 NCAA Tournament appearances (2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2023, 2026)
• 2011 Final Four appearance — one of the most famous runs in modern tournament history
• First team ever to reach the Final Four after starting in the “First Four.”
• Multiple NCAA Tournament wins across several seasons
• Several Atlantic 10 regular season championships
• CAA tournament championships prior to joining the A-10
• Consistently ranked among the top defensive programs nationally
• Home arena known for high-energy student atmosphere (“Havoc” era)

Saint Louis University:

• 7 NCAA Tournament appearances (2012, 2013, 2014, 2019, 2023, 2024, 2026)
• 2013 NCAA Tournament Round of 32 appearance
• Multiple Atlantic 10 regular season championships
• 2019 Atlantic 10 Tournament Champion
• Consistent 20+ win seasons during peak years under Rick Majerus and successors
• Strong recruiting pipeline in Missouri, Illinois, and Midwest basketball regions
• Plays in Chaifetz Arena, a modern arena with strong attendance support

Another reason these schools fit so naturally is their fan engagement and basketball atmospheres, which closely resemble what already exists across the Big East. Dayton’s home arena, for example, consistently ranks among the highest-attended venues in college basketball and produces one of the most intense game environments outside the power conferences. VCU’s arena is similarly known for its loud and energetic crowds, particularly during conference play. Saint Louis also maintains a strong basketball culture in a city that has historically supported college basketball. These types of passionate fan bases are very similar to those seen at current Big East schools such as Creighton University, University of Connecticut, Villanova University, Marquette University, and Providence College, where basketball games are major community events. Adding programs that already possess this level of support helps ensure that conference games maintain the high-energy environments that have long been a hallmark of the Big East.

Geography is another factor that makes these three programs especially logical expansion candidates. The modern Big East already has a strong Midwest presence with programs such as Xavier University, Butler University, Creighton University, Marquette University, and DePaul University. Dayton and Saint Louis would strengthen this Midwest cluster, creating additional regional rivalries and reducing travel distances for several schools. VCU, on the other hand, fits naturally with the conference’s Northeast and Mid-Atlantic footprint, sitting geographically close to schools like Georgetown University, Seton Hall University, and St. John's University. This distribution would allow the conference to expand while still maintaining relatively compact travel patterns and logical geographic groupings.

Institutional identity also plays a role. Much of the Big East’s membership historically consists of private universities, many of them Catholic institutions, whose athletic priorities emphasize basketball excellence and strong academic traditions. Dayton and Saint Louis share this Catholic institutional background, which aligns culturally with long-standing conference members Marquette University, Creighton University, Georgetown University, Xavier University, Providence College, St. John's University, DePaul University, Villanova University, and Seton Hall University. Even though VCU is a public university, its athletic culture and basketball prominence mirror the basketball-centric philosophy that the Big East values.

These schools would also enhance the conference’s recruiting footprint in important basketball regions. Dayton strengthens ties in Ohio and the Midwest recruiting pipeline. Saint Louis adds access to Missouri and the broader central United States, an area that consistently produces high-level basketball talent. VCU expands the conference’s presence into Virginia and the Mid-Atlantic recruiting corridor, which has become one of the most productive regions for elite high school basketball players. By expanding into these recruiting territories, the Big East would increase its national visibility while strengthening the talent pipeline available to its member programs.

Another major reason why these three are such natural expansion candidates for the Big East Conference is that their athletic programs are fundamentally basketball-driven rather than football-driven. This distinction is crucial because the modern Big East was intentionally rebuilt in 2013 around institutions whose athletic priorities center on basketball rather than major college football. Unlike the large power conferences where football television revenue often dictates conference strategy, the Big East’s identity and competitive success depend on schools whose resources, fan interest, and institutional focus are directed primarily toward building strong basketball programs. Dayton, Saint Louis, and VCU all operate within this same framework, making them philosophically aligned with the conference’s structure.

At Dayton University, basketball is unquestionably the centerpiece of the university’s athletic identity. The program consistently draws some of the largest crowds in the country relative to its conference affiliation, and the university’s investment in facilities, coaching, and recruiting reflects a clear prioritization of men’s basketball. Importantly, Dayton does not sponsor Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) football, meaning its athletic decision-making is not influenced by the financial and scheduling demands that often accompany major football programs. This mirrors the situation at most existing Big East schools, where basketball serves as the flagship sport and receives the greatest institutional emphasis.

A similar dynamic exists at Saint Louis University, where basketball has long been the university’s primary athletic focus. The program competes in a major arena in a city with a strong basketball tradition, and the university’s athletic profile revolves largely around the success and visibility of its basketball team. Like Dayton, Saint Louis does not operate a high-profile football program that could complicate conference alignment decisions. This allows the institution to devote resources and attention to basketball in a way that closely resembles the priorities of many current Big East members.

Virginia Commonwealth University likewise fits the Big East model because its athletic culture is strongly centered on basketball. Over the past decade and a half, VCU has built one of the most recognizable basketball brands outside the traditional power conferences, fueled by energetic fan support and consistent postseason appearances. While VCU sponsors football at the lower Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) level, that program does not dominate the school’s athletic agenda or media profile. Instead, the university’s national recognition in athletics overwhelmingly comes from its basketball program, which aligns closely with the basketball-first philosophy that defines the Big East.

This shared emphasis on basketball over football is precisely what makes these three schools compatible with a conference that was designed to avoid the internal tensions that arise when football and basketball priorities compete for dominance. In conferences where large football programs drive television contracts and scheduling structures, basketball programs sometimes become secondary considerations. The Big East, by contrast, thrives because its members share the same central objective: building a nationally competitive basketball league. Dayton, Saint Louis, and VCU all operate in environments where basketball success is the primary athletic goal, which means their institutional motivations would align naturally with those of existing Big East members

For all of these reasons - competitive success, passionate fan bases, geographic logic, institutional compatibility, basketball-priority and recruiting advantages - Saint Louis, Dayton, and VCU stand out as unusually strong candidates for Big East expansion. Their programs already embody the same basketball-first culture that has defined the conference for decades, and their addition would deepen the league’s competitive strength while preserving the identity that has made the Big East one of the premier conferences in college basketball.

Why This Realignment Would Be Beneficial

A realignment that adds these three universities would be highly beneficial to the Big East Conference for a number of reasons. The most obvious relates to their recent competitive success and the measurable financial and reputational impact that successful basketball programs bring to a conference. Over the past two decades, all three programs have demonstrated the ability to compete consistently at a level that earns NCAA tournament bids and produces postseason wins. Dayton has regularly fielded nationally ranked teams and has been a frequent NCAA tournament participant, including notable deep runs that captured national attention. VCU has built one of the most recognizable basketball brands outside the traditional power conferences, highlighted by its 2011 Final Four appearance and numerous tournament bids since then. Saint Louis has also maintained a steady presence in postseason play and has periodically produced nationally competitive teams capable of challenging top programs. The addition of programs with this type of proven success would strengthen the overall competitive profile of the conference and deepen its pool of teams capable of earning NCAA tournament invitations each season.

This competitive success matters financially because the NCAA tournament distributes revenue to conferences through what are commonly known as “NCAA tournament units” or credits. Each time a team from a conference appears in the NCAA tournament and wins games, the conference earns units that translate into multi-year revenue distributions from the NCAA. Those units are pooled and then shared among conference members over several years. As a result, conferences benefit when they have multiple teams regularly qualifying for the tournament and advancing to later rounds. Programs such as Dayton, VCU, and Saint Louis have historically demonstrated the ability not only to reach the tournament but also to win games once they arrive. Adding such teams increases the probability that the conference will earn additional tournament credits, which in turn increases the revenue distributed to every member institution in the league.

Beyond direct financial benefits from NCAA tournament credits, having more competitive teams also increases the likelihood that the conference will receive more NCAA tournament bids overall each year. Selection committees tend to reward conferences that have strong depth and multiple high-quality programs capable of beating nationally ranked opponents. If Dayton, VCU, and Saint Louis were competing within the Big East, their presence would strengthen the league’s overall résumé metrics—such as strength of schedule and quality wins—which are important factors in the NCAA selection process. A deeper conference with more competitive teams often results in more bids to the tournament, which further increases revenue through additional units while also raising the league’s national profile.

Increased tournament participation and success also affects national perception and media value, which are critically important for conferences negotiating television contracts. The Big East has already built a strong national brand as a premier basketball conference, with programs such as University of Connecticut, Villanova University, and Marquette University consistently competing at high levels. Adding three additional programs that regularly contend for NCAA tournament bids would further enhance the perception of the conference as one of the deepest and most competitive leagues in the country. Networks value conferences that can deliver meaningful games throughout the entire season, particularly matchups between multiple NCAA tournament-caliber teams. With Dayton, VCU, and Saint Louis included, the Big East schedule would feature even more high-quality games, which increases television ratings and strengthens the conference’s bargaining power when negotiating or renewing broadcast agreements.

In this way, the addition of these three programs would not simply expand the conference numerically; it would increase both the competitive strength and the financial stability of the league. Their consistent postseason participation would likely generate additional NCAA tournament units, which would increase shared revenue among all member schools. At the same time, their competitive reputations would elevate the conference’s national standing, contribute to more tournament bids, and create more attractive television matchups. Together, these factors would enhance both the prestige and long-term financial security of the Big East as one of the nation’s premier basketball conferences.

If the Big East Conference were to expand by adding University of Dayton, Virginia Commonwealth University, and Saint Louis University, the conference would grow from its current 11 members to a total of 14 basketball programs. At that size, dividing the league into two geographic divisions would make practical sense both for scheduling and for preserving regional rivalries. A natural structure would be an Eastern Division and a Midwestern Division, with each division containing seven schools. This alignment would keep travel efficient, preserve historic rivalries, and cluster schools that share similar geographic recruiting regions. Importantly, the division structure would also be perfectly balanced numerically, since fourteen teams divide evenly into two groups of seven.

In such a model, the Eastern Division would logically consist of the programs located in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions of the United States. That group would include University of Connecticut, Providence College, St. John's University, Seton Hall University, Villanova University, Georgetown University, and the expansion member Virginia Commonwealth University. Geographically this grouping makes sense because these schools sit along the traditional Northeast corridor stretching from New England down through New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., and into Virginia. The current Big East identity has always been rooted heavily in this corridor, where basketball rivalries have deep historical roots and where travel between campuses is relatively short. Adding VCU to this side would reinforce the Mid-Atlantic portion of the league and strengthen recruiting connections into the fertile basketball areas of Virginia, Washington D.C., and the broader Southeast.

Eastern Division (7)​

• University of Connecticut
• Providence College
• St. John's University
• Seton Hall University
• Villanova University
• Georgetown University
• Virginia Commonwealth University

This division forms a Northeast / Mid-Atlantic corridor, stretching from Connecticut down through New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., and into Virginia.

The Midwestern Division would naturally contain the programs located in the central United States and the Midwest basketball belt. That group would include Marquette University, Creighton University, Xavier University, Butler University, DePaul University, along with the two new expansion members University of Dayton and Saint Louis University. These programs are concentrated across Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Missouri, and Nebraska, which historically form one of the strongest regions of college basketball culture in the country. Grouping these schools together would strengthen regional rivalries and reduce travel burdens, since many of these campuses are only a few hours apart by bus or short flight. Dayton and Saint Louis would fit naturally into this cluster, especially given Dayton’s historic rivalry ties with schools like Xavier and its proximity to Butler and Saint Louis.

Midwestern Division (7)​

• Marquette University
• Creighton University
• Xavier University
• Butler University
• DePaul University
• University of Dayton
• Saint Louis University

This division creates a Midwest basketball cluster, centered around Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Missouri, and Nebraska.

One of the major advantages of this divisional structure would be scheduling efficiency. With seven teams in each division, a conference schedule could easily be built around a nineteen-game conference slate, which is already common in major basketball conferences. Each team could play the other six teams in its division twice, once at home and once on the road, which would account for twelve games. The remaining seven conference games would come against teams in the opposite division, likely on a rotating basis so that home-and-away balance is maintained over multiple seasons. This type of format would ensure that regional rivalries remain protected through home-and-home matchups while still allowing every team to face the entire conference during the season.

Beyond scheduling, the divisional alignment would also create several natural rivalry clusters that would enhance the league’s basketball identity. In the East, traditional Big East rivalries such as Connecticut–Providence, St. John’s–Seton Hall, and Villanova–Georgetown would remain intact. VCU’s inclusion would add a new regional dynamic, particularly with Georgetown due to their geographic proximity and recruiting overlap in the Mid-Atlantic region. In the Midwest division, Dayton’s addition would create several compelling matchups immediately. Dayton and Xavier already share a long basketball history and intense regional competition. Butler and Dayton would also form a logical rivalry given their geographic closeness and basketball traditions. Saint Louis would add further competitive balance to that division and would naturally develop rivalries with Creighton and Dayton, both of which are located within a few hours’ travel distance.

Major Rivalries Created or Preserved​

Eastern side

• UConn – Providence
• St. John’s – Seton Hall
• Villanova – Georgetown
• Georgetown – VCU (regional proximity)

Midwestern side

• Xavier – Dayton
• Butler – Xavier
• Butler – Dayton
• Saint Louis – Dayton
• Marquette – DePaul
• Creighton – Saint Louis

Another benefit of this structure is that it reinforces the Big East’s long-standing identity as a basketball-centric conference composed largely of private universities in major metropolitan areas or strong basketball regions. Dayton and Saint Louis are both Catholic institutions with strong basketball fanbases, which fits the conference’s historical culture. VCU, while public, brings a modern basketball reputation and strong fan engagement that aligns well with the league’s competitive profile. All three programs have experienced success in the NCAA tournament over the past two decades, which would strengthen the overall depth of the conference.

In practical terms, this fourteen-team alignment would likely make the Big East even stronger nationally in men’s basketball. The league already consistently ranks among the top conferences in terms of NCAA tournament bids and postseason success, largely because its member schools prioritize basketball as their flagship sport. Adding Dayton, VCU, and Saint Louis would increase the number of programs capable of competing for NCAA tournament bids each season while also expanding the conference’s geographic recruiting footprint into Ohio, Missouri, and Virginia. The result would be a conference that stretches from New England to the Midwest while remaining compact enough to maintain strong rivalries and manageable travel schedules.

Overall, a divisional structure separating the conference into an Eastern Division and a Midwestern Division would be both logical and balanced. The fourteen-team membership would divide evenly into two groups of seven, the geographic clustering would minimize travel while maximizing rivalries, and the scheduling model would allow for a clean nineteen-game conference season. For a basketball-focused league like the Big East, such a structure would preserve the traditional Northeast identity while fully integrating the strong basketball programs that already anchor the conference’s Midwestern footprint.

Consideration of a Potential Drawback

One potential concern with expanding the Big East Conference to include these three programs that television revenue would likely be divided among a greater number of member institutions. If the conference expanded from its current membership to a fourteen-team structure, the existing media rights revenue would initially have to be split among more schools, which could reduce the per-school distribution in the short term. In many conferences this would be viewed as a major drawback, since universities naturally prefer to maximize their individual share of television revenue. However, when viewed within the broader context of the rapidly changing landscape of college athletics, expansion may actually be a necessary strategic move for the long-term stability and financial health of the conference.

Across college sports, the major football-driven conferences have increasingly consolidated into larger and more powerful “super conferences,” with leagues such as the Big Ten Conference and the Southeastern Conference expanding their membership and dramatically increasing their television revenue through massive media rights agreements. These leagues are largely driven by football economics, but their growing size and financial power inevitably influence the entire college sports ecosystem, including basketball. In this environment, a basketball-focused conference like the Big East must remain competitive in national relevance, media visibility, and postseason success. Standing still while other conferences grow larger and more powerful could eventually weaken the conference’s influence and bargaining position in future media negotiations.

For that reason, expanding to include strong basketball programs such as Dayton, VCU, and Saint Louis could be viewed as a proactive strategy rather than a financial sacrifice. Even though television revenue might initially be divided among more members, the addition of three programs with proven basketball success would deepen the conference’s competitive strength and increase the number of teams capable of earning NCAA tournament bids. This is critically important because the NCAA distributes tournament revenue to conferences through a system of performance-based “units” or credits. Each time a conference team appears in the NCAA tournament and wins games, the conference earns units that generate payments from the NCAA over multiple years. Those payments are pooled and shared among all conference members.

By increasing the number of competitive programs capable of qualifying for and advancing in the NCAA tournament, expansion could significantly increase the number of tournament credits earned by the conference. In other words, although television revenue might initially be divided among more institutions, the overall financial pie could grow through additional NCAA tournament income. If Dayton, VCU, and Saint Louis collectively contributed multiple tournament appearances and wins over time, the resulting units could generate millions of dollars in additional revenue distributed to all member schools.

Beyond direct NCAA revenue, a deeper and more competitive conference would strengthen the Big East’s national perception as the premier basketball league outside the football-dominated power conferences. A conference with fourteen teams that regularly produce high-quality matchups and multiple NCAA tournament contenders becomes more attractive to television networks and streaming platforms. Stronger competition leads to more meaningful games throughout the season, higher viewership, and greater national attention. Over time, that enhanced reputation could position the conference to negotiate stronger media rights agreements in future television contracts, potentially offsetting and even surpassing the initial reduction in per-school revenue caused by expansion.

In this sense, expanding the conference would represent a long-term strategic investment in stability and relevance. By strengthening its basketball depth and increasing its chances of earning NCAA tournament bids and wins, the Big East would reinforce its identity as a national basketball powerhouse while securing additional revenue streams tied directly to postseason success. Rather than being left behind as football-driven conferences continue to grow in size and influence, expansion would allow the Big East to adapt to the evolving structure of college athletics while protecting its position as one of the most prominent and financially viable basketball conferences in the country.

Stimulus Progression_rivals said:

Not buying VCU. The other two make sense.

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Care to explain why? From everything discussed in the article, all three are essentially perfect matches considering the pool of available candidates. Would any team be a better fit assuming you took the first two? The benefits of 14 schools also argues for inclusion of all three from a scheduling perspective and having two even divisions of 7.

Fishjam said:

Big East should only expand with schools who are going to move the needle from a revenue generation standpoint. From a competition viewpoint, those 3 are similar to middle to lower-third of the conference teams and they fit in with the basketball-first mindset. They would provide depth to the league.

However, middle of the pack at best depth doesn't move the needle.
.
Expansion comes down to revenue.

Do any of those schools improve the league's revenue or just dilute the current revenue shared by 14 teams instead of 11?

Big East revenue is derived from its media contract, its share of NCAAT credits and the Conference Championship at MSG. The schools mentioned would just be 3 more mouths to feed from the same/similar revenue pie.

To me I don't think they would do much to give the BE a better media contract nor would their presence necessary lead to more NCAAT bids. Again it would just dilute the revenue from NCAAT credits by 14 instead of 11.

The only advantage I see would be to provide additional scheduling opportunities if certain BE schools continue to struggle finding quality Non-conference games. But to me thats not worth diluting the revenue split.

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I used to think like this. Although I address in the article the reasons why I don't consider this "logic" valid. There are far too many downsides/risks to not expanding to make this objection legitimate. And far too many benefits to adding these three teams.

Also, you say they won't "move the needle" but these teams routinely earn at-large bids out of a weaker conference. That itself DOES move the needle, as all that really matters in the end is March success. It also provides existing teams with stronger scheduling in conference which helps existing teams resumes. Expands Big East footprint to several new major cities with tv markets and rabid fanbases and great venues. And helps with NCAA credits which replaces or exceeds any lost revenue due to splitting tv contract earnings. Also solidifies league for future tv contracts.

These three teams have had 100 times the March success of existing schools like ourselves, Depaul, SJU (until this year), et al in the past 20 years. There are no Dukes or Kentuckys that are joining the Big East, so waiting for someone on that level to "move the needle" just guarantees you stagnate and slip farther behind.

Doing nothing keeps us behind, and if we can reasonably expand with teams that do fit our league profile and benefit us in all of these ways, honestly it's a no-brainer to me. These three from what I can see, fit our profile perfectly. 11 teams can't keep competing for NCAA credits against conferences with 18 teams or however many. It is a guaranteed recipe for losing forever.

NCAAsorBust said:

So instead of getting UConn an SJU on our schedule twice we get a game with these bums. no thanks

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No. According to what I explained about a proposed divisional schedule, each team would play a home and away game against their divisional opponents, plus once against teams from the other division. So we would not lose any games against SJU and UCONN since we are in the east.

Further, not sure how you missed the lists of basketball accomplishment of each program in the recent 20 years. If that qualifies them as "bums," I shudder to imagine what we are.

Further yet, you're only thinking of it from one end (and even that was wrong). But how about this: "instead of playing bums like DePaul twice we get VCU twice and DePaul once."

NCAAsorBust said:

We would not but Creighton would. That depletes half of the big east strength of schedule. Really going to help the conference get more team in.

they get opportunities in March. If they had to go through the big east for 20 games they would not have those accomplishments. It’s the same logic as look what Sha did at SPU imagine what he can do at SHU.

im thinking of it from that end because there were only 2 quality teams this year and 9 bum team. Willard’s team beat nobody good this year either other than Wisconsin. So you have a max potential of 4 games vs good team. Take 2 of those games away and your playing a WCC schedule. Take 3 or 4 of them away you have an A-10 schedule. And for the record that bum depaul team beat us easily both times.

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You are only thinking in terms of this past season or two. Prior to that, Creighton was a top team and SJU was down the list. That is small temporary thinking and not what will help push this conference forward.

We can't ignore all of the obvious reasons why this must be done just because a few teams will miss one game against UConn every year. The reality is we are gaining three legitimate programs that long term will help boost our number of conference bids, our tournament wins total, our credits earned, our in conference strength of schedule, our footprint, our tv viewership, and our league national perception. And who knows when UConn will bail on us for a new conference. We can't hold ourselves back because of them.

This is not adding Loyola and Siena. These are legitimate programs on part with most of our current programs. I don't see a downside.

NCAAsorBust said:

If they had to go through the big east for 20 games they would not have those accomplishments. It’s the same logic as look what Sha did at SPU imagine what he can do at SHU.

im thinking of it from that end because there were only 2 quality teams this year and 9 bum team. Willard’s team beat nobody good this year either other than Wisconsin. So you have a max potential of 4 games vs good team. Take 2 of those games away and your playing a WCC schedule. Take 3 or 4 of them away you have an A-10 schedule. And for the record that bum depaul team beat us easily both times.

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I don't think that is a persuasive argument. If it was a one-off year maybe but all three of these teams have demonstrated over time that they have invested heavily into their bball program and that are absolutely worthy of being part of our conference, and will help us increase the level of competition. This isn't flash in the pan success. These are programs getting at large bids in a weaker conference, which in my opinion is HARDER to do.

Yea, I realize that DePaul beat us, that's on us. But until this year they've been a conference doormat so you get the point.

SPK145 said:

I can't believe I wasted my time reading this.

AI is really ******* stupid.

The only reason those 3 schools get NCAA tournament bids is because they play in a lesser conference. St. Louis attendance has been bad, LOL. I could go on but today is the day I'm rearranging my sock drawer.

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You are right their attendance has been lower recently. I don't think that is a reason not to look at them for expansion. I'm also not sure playing in a lesser conference helps you get at-large bids easier. They have less opportunities for quality wins and strength of schedule suffers.

And look at their number of NCAA tournament wins. If they are "only making the tournament because they're in a lesser league" how do you explain their success in the tournament? From what I can tell, Dayton, VCU, and SLU have combined for around 24 NCAA tournament wins int he past 20 years.

By contrast, compare that win total to the past 20 years for Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, and St. Johns for example, which equal a whopping 6 combined.

If AI is so stupid (and me by extension since it's exactly what I believe), then you'll have to do a better job than that of refuting it.

Stimulus Progression_rivals said:

It’s a regional public. Doesn’t move the needle academically or athletically from a national perspective. Frankly, VCU is an afterthought regionally.

I’ll think about who would be better. But off the top of my head, I’d rather have La Salle, GW, and Rhode Island.

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UConn is public also, but I'm pretty glad we have them. And VCU does not have FBS football while UConn does, so from that standpoint they're an even better fit. Eventually UConn will leave the Big East, let's be honest.

How does it not move the needle athletically? (I have no idea about their academics). They have had raging success in March in the past 20 years. Half of the current Big East is laughable by comparison.

La Salle, GW, and Rhode Island?? You can't be serious.