Over the next few weeks, keep your eyes on the Middle East

tboonpickens

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Sep 19, 2001
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Really disturbing to know how stupid half this damn country is to elect these morons. That speech tonight was another disaster, and earlier today he basically cut a midterm promo for the Dems. Absolute morons, every single one of them.

It's too bad Little Marco can't strap on his clown shoes that Trump bought for him and walk over to give him a little advice. Irony is truly dead.



 

baltimorened

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May 29, 2001
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Really disturbing to know how stupid half this damn country is to elect these morons. That speech tonight was another disaster, and earlier today he basically cut a midterm promo for the Dems. Absolute morons, every single one of them.

It's too bad Little Marco can't strap on his clown shoes that Trump bought for him and walk over to give him a little advice. Irony is truly dead.




didn't see the speech - can't sit through them...but from what I have read today, seems like Trump misread the country. First of all, I think the majority of Americans want to stay in NATO. It's certainly not perfect, but it's better than alternatives. I do agree with at least one pundit who said we should get larger reimbursement for maintaining troops in Europe. We're supporting their economies, they should help us in return.

Continuing the war is not popular. Now I realize he can't go before the American people and lay out his plans for the end. But he'd have been better off, IMO, by not having this "speech to the people", which in effect really said nothing, and just getting his message out through his many press gaggles.

If you're going to have a prime time speech, I'd think you'd have some form of significant announcement. From what I've read last night was just more of what we already knew
 

Dungeon09

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Dec 1, 2021
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didn't see the speech - can't sit through them...but from what I have read today, seems like Trump misread the country. First of all, I think the majority of Americans want to stay in NATO. It's certainly not perfect, but it's better than alternatives. I do agree with at least one pundit who said we should get larger reimbursement for maintaining troops in Europe. We're supporting their economies, they should help us in return.

Continuing the war is not popular. Now I realize he can't go before the American people and lay out his plans for the end. But he'd have been better off, IMO, by not having this "speech to the people", which in effect really said nothing, and just getting his message out through his many press gaggles.

If you're going to have a prime time speech, I'd think you'd have some form of significant announcement. From what I've read last night was just more of what we already knew
Agree with what you’ve written here except for that our European garrisons are a big part of our ability to project force globally. It’s a bit of trade off, NATO countries get the security blanket of the largest NATO ally having forces right there as deterrent and we get the ability to stage assets on the other side of the Atlantic. European countries absolutely need to do a better job overall of maintaining their own defensive infrastructure (and most have course corrected to a degree since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine) but US bases in Europe is not a one sided zero sum deal.
 

firegiver

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Sep 10, 2007
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baltimorened

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Agree with what you’ve written here except for that our European garrisons are a big part of our ability to project force globally. It’s a bit of trade off, NATO countries get the security blanket of the largest NATO ally having forces right there as deterrent and we get the ability to stage assets on the other side of the Atlantic. European countries absolutely need to do a better job overall of maintaining their own defensive infrastructure (and most have course corrected to a degree since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine) but US bases in Europe is not a one sided zero sum deal.
true
 
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BigPapaWhit

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It’s because Israel wants hardliners in power in Iran as pretext to continue the conflict just as they clandestinely supported Hamas against the PLO at one point.
Tracking. IIRC Vance was the lone dissenter in the Oval Office on this current operation.

Was he trying to backdoor a deal to score some political points? Ah the intrigue. Maybe one day it will turn into a Paramount+ or better yet end up on BritBox in a more highbrow production.
 

dpic73

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Jul 27, 2005
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This is what it looks like when a war isn’t going to plan. Unable to stop Iran’s missile and drone fire, the U.S. is escalating by bombing more civilian infrastructure—like a major bridge linking Tehran to Karaj that millions rely on.

So much for the ludicrous claim that anything about this was to “help the Iranian people.”

This is a brutal campaign to break a country of over 90 million people. All while Hormuz remains closed, global economic costs mount, and Iran continues striking targets across the region.

There is no strategy here. Just desperation. Trump is escalating toward more barbaric attacks and rhetoric to mask a war that is not going his way.

 
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fatpiggy

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Aug 18, 2002
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Tracking. IIRC Vance was the lone dissenter in the Oval Office on this current operation.

Was he trying to backdoor a deal to score some political points? Ah the intrigue. Maybe one day it will turn into a Paramount+ or better yet end up on BritBox in a more highbrow production.
I thought it was because the Iranians said they did not want to negotiate with Witkoff and Kushner because they didn't trust them? Instead they wanted to negotiate with Vance. Seemed reasonable.
 

kidmike41

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I thought it was because the Iranians said they did not want to negotiate with Witkoff and Kushner because they didn't trust them? Instead they wanted to negotiate with Vance. Seemed reasonable.
Would you trust Witkoff and Kushner at this point. They have been at the table twice and got bombed. Hopefully Vance can get something done.
 

BigPapaWhit

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Would you trust Witkoff and Kushner at this point. They have been at the table twice and got bombed. Hopefully Vance can get something done.
Well on the bright side, probably better to learn these lessons in a conflict with Iran than with China.

Though if anyone read The Kill Chain, I think it covered some of the things we are experiencing right now. IT was published in 2020.
 

kidmike41

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Well on the bright side, probably better to learn these lessons in a conflict with Iran than with China.

Though if anyone read The Kill Chain, I think it covered some of the things we are experiencing right now. IT was published in 2020.
Yes. I have been disappointed in the approach to drone defense.

Also it was noted the other day that during the Iraq-Iran war Iran suffered 500k deaths and did not surrender. I hope our planners factored that in when this got started.
 
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Dungeon09

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Would you trust Witkoff and Kushner at this point. They have been at the table twice and got bombed. Hopefully Vance can get something done.
I wouldn’t trust any of them.

From the jump I’ve seen Vance’s supposed reluctance on this conflict as hedging for the eventuality that this war has major political costs for republicans. He wants to preserve his viability in 2028. Vance doesn’t have principles, he’s water flowing towards whatever he thinks maximizes his chance of increasing his power.
 

kidmike41

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I wouldn’t trust any of them.

From the jump I’ve seen Vance’s supposed reluctance on this conflict as hedging for the eventuality that this war has major political costs for republicans. He wants to preserve his viability in 2028. Vance doesn’t have principles, he’s water flowing towards whatever he thinks maximizes his chance of increasing his power.
You describe a politician
 
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Knickslions69

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Oct 12, 2021
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Iran shot down an F15

This can’t be true. We were just told by Trump that Iran has no capabilities left. He wouldn’t lie to us
 

baltimorened

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Thoughts on this article?
there's a lot to unpack in this article. I'd agree on some things and disagree on others, as you might expect. Let me start by saying I have no idea what the conversations between trump and the Pentagon leaders were concerning the Iran military capabilities or the strength of its leaders. I do know, at least in my day, there were detailed compilations, strengths. weaknesses, equipment, ways to defeat their defenses etc. I doubt if that has changed much since I retired. DoW is relatively anal in these things.

War not going well? Unless this gentleman has his hand on the war plans, he's not in a position to know if the war is going well. DoW will have some specific objectives, order of what to destroy first all the way to last. And just about every military expert has said how well the war is going from our perspective. Heck, we own the sky's, we can do pretty much whatever we want there. If we're moving to civilian infrastructure in our bombings, that tells me that we're pretty satisfied in our position vis a vis military targets.

His point about our missile defense systems, IMO, is off the target. What is being reported is that we have a 90% success rate in knocking their missiles out of the sky. That is a spectacular number. It is accurate that defense against hypersonic missiles is weak..but you can't totally blame trump for that. It would take 5-6 years at a minimum to get through a procurement cycle for a new weapon system. Trump has only been in office, this time, for a year or so.

Being surprised by the strait of Hormuz defense by Iran...I'll give more credence to general (ret) Jack Keane who has stated that even during his service there were numerous plans and war games focused on the strait...now whether those plans have worked out, I don't know.

My final point...while we haven't gotten to this point yet, I don't know how you get the enriched uranium out of iran. As an old infantry officer, it seems to me that you either need troops on the ground to go get it, or some third party mediator has to go get it and store.

I don't know what the author's background is, and he brings up a lot of points. Looking for his background, it doesn't appear as if he has a military background..he's an artist (not that there's anything wrong with that) and a conservative (or that). He's entitled to his opinions.
 

ANEW

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My final point...while we haven't gotten to this point yet, I don't know how you get the enriched uranium out of iran. As an old infantry officer, it seems to me that you either need troops on the ground to go get it, or some third party mediator has to go get it and store.
Getting eyes on it is the only way to be sure of what you actually have.
 
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sleepy64561

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I’ve had trouble logging on for about a week, might have been banned because of my dodgeball quote (which is ok if that happened, just sharing in case others have had issues signing in lately).

Gas was $3.99/gallon yesterday in Durham, NC, which I think is more than a dollar since before the operation began (but I constantly feel like I’m time traveling so might not be exactly right)

Stressed Over It GIF by HULU
 

tboonpickens

Heisman
Sep 19, 2001
19,860
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seems like it was quite the search and rescue mission carried out to save the remaining downed airman. no doubt we've got some damn studs in our forces which makes the lack of leadership at the top all the more frustrating.

 
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RaleighTiger OG

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Nov 13, 2001
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there's a lot to unpack in this article. I'd agree on some things and disagree on others, as you might expect. Let me start by saying I have no idea what the conversations between trump and the Pentagon leaders were concerning the Iran military capabilities or the strength of its leaders. I do know, at least in my day, there were detailed compilations, strengths. weaknesses, equipment, ways to defeat their defenses etc. I doubt if that has changed much since I retired. DoW is relatively anal in these things.

War not going well? Unless this gentleman has his hand on the war plans, he's not in a position to know if the war is going well. DoW will have some specific objectives, order of what to destroy first all the way to last. And just about every military expert has said how well the war is going from our perspective. Heck, we own the sky's, we can do pretty much whatever we want there. If we're moving to civilian infrastructure in our bombings, that tells me that we're pretty satisfied in our position vis a vis military targets.

His point about our missile defense systems, IMO, is off the target. What is being reported is that we have a 90% success rate in knocking their missiles out of the sky. That is a spectacular number. It is accurate that defense against hypersonic missiles is weak..but you can't totally blame trump for that. It would take 5-6 years at a minimum to get through a procurement cycle for a new weapon system. Trump has only been in office, this time, for a year or so.

Being surprised by the strait of Hormuz defense by Iran...I'll give more credence to general (ret) Jack Keane who has stated that even during his service there were numerous plans and war games focused on the strait...now whether those plans have worked out, I don't know.

My final point...while we haven't gotten to this point yet, I don't know how you get the enriched uranium out of iran. As an old infantry officer, it seems to me that you either need troops on the ground to go get it, or some third party mediator has to go get it and store.

I don't know what the author's background is, and he brings up a lot of points. Looking for his background, it doesn't appear as if he has a military background..he's an artist (not that there's anything wrong with that) and a conservative (or that). He's entitled to his opinions.
You can tell where the author's bias lies in the first paragraph. Which is fine for an opinion piece. But he bases his opinion on statements that are just factually wrong.

The most egregious is his statement that "Iran has destroyed most of the U.S. bases in the Persian Gulf." That is patently false as are several of his other claims. Hard to take him serious after that.
 

ANEW

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seems like it was quite the search and rescue mission carried out to save the remaining downed airman. no doubt we've got some damn studs in our forces which makes the lack of leadership at the top all the more frustrating.

It was. We do. Don't worry about leadership. Morale is by all accounts, high.
 
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ANEW

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In all of Trump bragadoccio, the real interesting / historical link to this rescue mission that should have been highlighted, wasn't, at least not yet. You can trace the success of this rescue mission directly back to 1980, and Operation Eagle Claw, the failed attempt to rescue our hostages held by the Irainian regime. In 1980 it was a pickup game made up of volunteers and elements from all services. Much like the Army-Air Force , joint operation Ivory Coast, 10 years prior in North Vietnam otherwize known as the "Son Tay Raid" which was also a pickup game. (edit: Navy also participated via a large diversion simulating a bombing attack to focus attention away from the target area and the approach to the target)

Eagle Claw led directly to the creation of United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) made up of elements from all services and tasked with conducting full-spectrum special operations missions across the entire globe.

SOCOM's worth to the nation has been validated many times over, over the years, with a good portion of activities going unreported (or under-reported) but its really really neat to finally have a historical book end to the failure in 1980. RIP men, your sacrifice was not in vain.

Eagle Claw

Ivory Coast (Wiki)
 
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yoshi121374

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Jan 26, 2006
12,802
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In all of Trump bragadoccio, the real interesting / historical link to this rescue mission that should have been highlighted, wasn't, at least not yet. You can trace the success of this rescue mission directly back to 1980, and Operation Eagle Claw, the failed attempt to rescue our hostages held by the Irainian regime. In 1980 it was a pickup game made up of volunteers and elements from all services. Much like the Army-Air Force , joint operation Ivory Coast, 10 years prior in North Vietnam otherwize known as the "Son Tay Raid" which was also a pickup game.

Eagle Claw led directly to the creation of United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) made up of elements from all services and tasked with conducting full-spectrum special operations missions across the entire globe.

SOCOM's worth to the nation has been validated many times over, over the years, with a good portion of activities going unreported (or under-reported) but its really really neat to finally have a historical book end to the failure in 1980. RIP men, your sacrifice was not in vain.

Eagle Claw

Ivory Coast (Wiki)

I read a really good book about Ross Perot and his company making their own internal special forces team of executives with military experience to rescue their hostages employees.
 

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ANEW

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I read a really good book about Ross Perot and his company making their own internal special forces team of executives with military experience to rescue their hostages employees.

That mission was led by COL(ret) Arthur "Bull" Simons. One of the pantheon of greats in US Special Operations (and Army Special Forces) history.

He was a Ranger officer in the Pacific earning the Silver Star and participating in "The Great Raid" in 1945 where a combination of Rangers, Alamo Scouts and Phillippine gurellas rescueding over 500 allied prisoners that were probably going to be executed by the Japanese, and killing between 500-1000 Japanese and knocking out 4 tanks during the 30min assault. He left the service following WWII as a Major.
The Great Raid - Cabanatuan 1945

He re-entereed the service, serving in instructor positions and command positions Ranger and Special Forces units. To include prominent positions at the Jungle Traning center in Panama, White Star training team mission in Laos in the very early 1960s and then MACV-SOG.

He was hand-picked to lead Operation Ivory Coast in 1970 to rescue US prisioner from Son Tay prision in North Vietnam that, i mentioned above. He retired in 1971. Died at 60yrs old shortly after the mission detailed in folliet's book.

The Bull Simons award is USSOCOMs highest honor and given for lifetime achievement/service to the US Special Operations. Ross Perot commissioned a statue for him in the late 1990s.
2744_kzwtc4kx_bnhboi8q.jpg
 
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