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President to Sign Executive Order on College Sports - Changing transfer and redshirt rules

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maxpain

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This could have a big impact on sports like wrestling. 5 years to play 5 seasons. One free transfer, any after that create an automatic “redshirt” year.



Would be great if people could keep this an apolitical thread and just talk about the impact of these rules. I will post the full EO once signed.
 
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maxpain

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TheREALSpooner said:
The 5 to play 5 idea is an excellent one.

This will not hold up in court.
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Certainly is a possibility that it won’t hold up.

I am not sure how I feel about 5 to play 5. I do prefer it to having the whole medical redshirt craziness.

I do like the 1 free transfer rule. I hate that every offseason is a negotiation with existing players. Especially in basketball and football but there is some of that in wrestling happening too.
 
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TheREALSpooner

TheREALSpooner

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maxpain said:
Certainly is a possibility that it won’t hold up.

I am not sure how I feel about 5 to play 5. I do prefer it to having the whole medical redshirt craziness.

I do like the 1 free transfer rule. I hate that every offseason is a negotiation with existing players. Especially in basketball and football but there is some of that in wrestling happening too.
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Redshirting is an archaic concept. Kids are more physically and academically ready for college than ever before. It’s become a solution looking for a problem. There’s no need to have such a contrived and complex system.
 
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maxpain

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The one part I would really love to see the language on is “enacting funding requirements for the Olympics and women's sports.”
 
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FF141

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Praguehawk said:
I’m in favor of the 5 in 5 and the 1 transfer. I think for this to work congres has to give them monopoly powers.
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Then they’ll Probly have to have a collective bargaining agreement which is what the ncaa has been avoiding.
I’m not really for one transfer. But there should b order to it and compensation by the blue bloods to the rest of the schools.
 
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TheREALSpooner

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lookleftgoright said:
I would rather see 5 years to play 4 and that is that. It is good to get rid of Olympic redshirts and medical redshirts etc. The system was broken and it is a shame that we need a president to solve the problem when the supposedly greatest minds in college sports could not come up with a solution.
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Why 5 to play 4? What purpose does it serve and what’s the virtue?
 
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AndreTheHawk

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RockySmith said:
I was trying to think of a tactful, non-political way to say the same. Not sure where in the constitution this power is granted, but I’m not a lawyer.
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Well it has to start somewhere right? The rest of "the clan" (NCAA, University Presidents, Athletic Directors, etc.) sit on their hands or spend all their time in courtrooms, and the wheel just keeps spinning.

I don't give a damn who fixes it, that short/fat North Korean and Dennis Rodman can do it and I'll send them both a birthday cake or something to show my appreciation. Just get it done.
 
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Misalorales

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TheREALSpooner said:
Redshirting is an archaic concept. Kids are more physically and academically ready for college than ever before. It’s become a solution looking for a problem. There’s no need to have such a contrived and complex system.
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I'm wrestling sure. Football,no. It's still pretty rare of have a true impact true freshman football
 
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maxpain

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  • The Order directs Federal agencies to bolster the effectiveness of key college-sports rules on transferring, eligibility, and pay-for-play by evaluating whether violations of such rules render a university unfit for Federal grants and contracts.
  • Simultaneously, the Order calls on the appropriate governing body to update these rules to restore financial stability and protect the future of all college sports, including women’s and Olympic sports by:
    • establishing clear, consistent, and fair eligibility limits, including a five-year participation window;
    • setting structured transfer rules for academic and athletic continuity;
    • ensuring medical care for student-athletes;
    • implementing revenue-sharing in a manner that protects and expands opportunities in women’s and Olympic sports;
    • banning improper financial arrangements including pay-for-play agreements facilitated by collectives and similar entities; and
    • establishing protections against unscrupulous agent conduct.
  • The Order directs the Administrator of General Services and the Department of Education to increase data collection across college athletics to ensure compliance.
  • The Order directs the Chairman of the Federal Trade Commission and the Attorney General to take appropriate enforcement actions.
  • The Order also calls on Congress to quickly pass legislation to address these critical issues.
 
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maxpain

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TheREALSpooner said:
Why 5 to play 4? What purpose does it serve and what’s the virtue?
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The part that bothers me about 5 to play 5 is that most athletes are graduating in 4 years. So why wouldn’t it be 4 to play 4 if there was a push to get rid of redshirts and all that. 5 years of eligibility just feels like too much.

Hell many kids are graduating in 3 years nowadays. There will be a ton of graduate students.
 
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lookleftgoright

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It amazed me that no one has any common sense anymore. How can the NCAA not see this as a problem and make changes that are needed. A 10 year old could come up with a plan that makes sense, but the NCAA needs the president to issue and executive order. WOW!!!

I do not know whether it will hold up in court. It seems like a bit of a reach for the president to use an executive order, but I also do not know exactly what that means.
 
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lookleftgoright

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TheREALSpooner said:
Why 5 to play 4? What purpose does it serve and what’s the virtue?
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You give a kid one year to develop and be ready to compete in college. If a kid gets injured one year, he can still complete another year. But let's get rid of all the possible different ways to get an extra year and let's get these kids out of school before they are 25 and 26.
 
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FF141

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lookleftgoright said:
It amazed me that no one has any common sense anymore. How can the NCAA not see this as a problem and make changes that are needed. A 10 year old could come up with a plan that makes sense, but the NCAA needs the president to issue and executive order. WOW!!!

I do not know whether it will hold up in court. It seems like a bit of a reach for the president to use an executive order, but I also do not know exactly what that means.
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No a ten year old couldn’t. The NCAA allowed the problem to happen by restricting the student athlete the ability to earn money on there NIL. They’ve put rules in place but they restrict their ability to earn so they’ve been challenged and lost. Unless there is a collective bargaining agreement with an antitrust agreement it will likely continue to be a shitshow.
 
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BroncHawk

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lookleftgoright said:
You give a kid one year to develop and be ready to compete in college. If a kid gets injured one year, he can still complete another year. But let's get rid of all the possible different ways to get an extra year and let's get these kids out of school before they are 25 and 26.
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I don’t really care if they get 5 for 4 or 5 for 5 or 4 for 4, I really just want some kind of limit on transfers and redshirts. Maybe if you need 3 medical redshirts, it’s time to hang it up?

I don’t think this EO will change anything though. Maybe it gets the ball rolling, but the SCORE act already failed so it’s not like some effort hasn’t already been made.
 
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FF141

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BroncHawk said:
I don’t really care if they get 5 for 4 or 5 for 5 or 4 for 4, I really just want some kind of limit on transfers and redshirts. Maybe if you need 3 medical redshirts, it’s time to hang it up?

I don’t think this EO will change anything though. Maybe it gets the ball rolling, but the SCORE act already failed so it’s not like some effort hasn’t already been made.
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And compensation for lower level teams. For the health of wrestling as a whole. It would b nice to see DIv 1 expand not drop to 36 teams
 
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TheREALSpooner

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lookleftgoright said:
You give a kid one year to develop and be ready to compete in college. If a kid gets injured one year, he can still complete another year. But let's get rid of all the possible different ways to get an extra year and let's get these kids out of school before they are 25 and 26.
Click to expand...

They can do that regardless. No reason to have a rule that prevents them from participating. It is contrived.


SpacemanSpifff said:
It gives opportunities to more athletes.
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I respect that this is a positive.
 
TheREALSpooner

TheREALSpooner

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lookleftgoright said:
It amazed me that no one has any common sense anymore. How can the NCAA not see this as a problem and make changes that are needed. A 10 year old could come up with a plan that makes sense, but the NCAA needs the president to issue and executive order. WOW!!!
Click to expand...

You’re not following things very closely, I don’t think. They think it’s a huge problem. The courts have rendered them powerless
 
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AndEEss

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lookleftgoright said:
Yes, but could he withhold funding from universities that do not comply? Is that correct?
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No...

The president cannot withhold funding from anyone unless the bill authorizing the funding specifically stated that as a condition for the funding. Obama tried that with a couple of states re: Medicare expansion, and Trump is trying it with all sorts of things with blue states; they both got corrected by the courts. Trump is only doing this because he had dinner with donors (donors in the SEC) who are upset that they can no longer compete with the B1G schools.

As Spooner said, the NCAA was taken to federalSupreme court and lost. House v. NCAA and NCAA v. Alston.

National Collegiate Athletic Association v. Alston - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

en.wikipedia.org

House v. NCAA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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StuckAsAnon

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The NCAA gets crapped upon constantly, but I’m not sure they are at fault for a lot of what we’ve seen recently.

NIL- The courts are what allowed NIL to get to the point it is at. Obviously the NCAA could have come up with looser rules earlier, but it would have gotten to this point through the court system no matter what. The NCAA’s choice is to keep the current format, or start calling the players employees so they can get to collective bargaining and start to have some teeth again.

Eligibility - Again, the court system is what’s allowed players like Pavia to continue to play. How they ever looked at his case and just decided that JUCO years don’t count is beyond me. The NCAA has screwed up some here with inconsistent rulings - Drew Ott anyone. It used to be a solid 5 to play 4, but then medical and Olympic redshirts started to come in to play. Gary shirts followed. And here we are with 27 year olds playing college sports. A hard cap, while possibly ruining some good stories, is what’s needed.

All these things still ignore one of the main problems facing college sports…money vs opportunity. College sports SHOULD be an extension of the classroom, teaching leadership, accountability, teamwork, etc. Olympic and women’s sports will never make money, but in most cases they do a better job in teaching these things.
 
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jakgray

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maxpain said:
The part that bothers me about 5 to play 5 is that most athletes are graduating in 4 years. So why wouldn’t it be 4 to play 4 if there was a push to get rid of redshirts and all that. 5 years of eligibility just feels like too much.

Hell many kids are graduating in 3 years nowadays. There will be a ton of graduate students.
Click to expand...
My god there on school now 6-8 years come on.
 
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jakgray

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There was over 2,000 coaches that signed the petition asking begging for congress to step in and do something.

The ncaa has also ask for a subject matter expert for every sport to over look and make sure the athletic departments are following the rules. I only know of the one coach that has been ask for football haven't heard of wrestling.

Remember all this has to pass congress and the courts.
 
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redghost1974

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The governing body needs to be making the rules, not the President. 5 years of participation is stupid. COVID extra years already wrecked half a decade of line ups. One year of redshirt, 1 year medical, sit for a year every transfer (redshirt can be used).
 
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jakgray

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redghost1974 said:
The governing body needs to be making the rules, not the President. 5 years of participation is stupid. COVID extra years already wrecked half a decade of line ups. One year of redshirt, 1 year medical, sit for a year every transfer (redshirt can be used).
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Understand that ncaa sports are in jeopardy. The small schools can't compete with nil. I know some of you don't like this but it's this or we will start losing sports and wrestling is always on the chopping blocks.

Like I have stated before it's the coaches that brought this to the floor after begging the ncaa to step in. It's been in the works for the past 2 years.
 
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TheREALSpooner

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redghost1974 said:
The governing body needs to be making the rules, not the President. 5 years of participation is stupid. COVID extra years already wrecked half a decade of line ups. One year of redshirt, 1 year medical, sit for a year every transfer (redshirt can be used).
Click to expand...

They did for decades and the courts decided they basically cannot. It will literally take an act of Congress to go back to anything close to what it used to be.
 
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Ptguard5

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Here is what’s happening…the President knows there has to be congressional support, therefore, the executive order. All the top conferences have come out 100% in favor so now there is a necessity for that support. The most important aspect that was added is penalizing the schools, not just the athletic department, for non compliance. That means the school president’s will be forced to do what the NCAA has been unable or unwilling to do…..POLICE their own athletic programs and their coaches and their contributor's. The athletes still get revenue sharing only that is now also regulated. Lawsuits need to be met and addressed with the schools right to regulate and set policy as to who can participate. It works because the regulations are now spelled out with penalties and college presidential over site.
 
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Boomhawk52

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Ridiculous, trump thought he could take gable. End of story. I won't fight either way but we are bombing everyone. Focus on our side
 
Nashville_Hawk

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AndreTheHawk said:
Well it has to start somewhere right? The rest of "the clan" (NCAA, University Presidents, Athletic Directors, etc.) sit on their hands or spend all their time in courtrooms, and the wheel just keeps spinning.

I don't give a damn who fixes it, that short/fat North Korean and Dennis Rodman can do it and I'll send them both a birthday cake or something to show my appreciation. Just get it done.
Click to expand...
Love that last part...too funny! Rodman was such a dork going over to North Korea...what a joke.
 
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