So in the nba you can do a lot of crazy things

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QuaoarsKing

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If you think 80% of americans are ok with him getting cut for his comments its you who has a reality problem.
Is that what I said? No.

I said that the percentage of Americans who agree with his hourslong homophobic and anti-Catholic rants are less than 80%. That statement doesn't imply that it's also less than 20%, or anything about what percentage would support cutting him.

I do think the majority of NBA fans are probably fine with cutting him though. NBA fans clearly a more a younger and more "cosmopolitan" slice of people than the American population at large.
 
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mstateglfr

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I actually agree with you. But why does the league get to pick and choose what they support and advertise but the players can't make comments.

The players union should be all over this. Its a slap in the face to them.
I have never read through a player's contract with a team or read through the union contract with the league.
I am guessing something in one or both of those is what the team would reference as justification.


Your comment is red is really no different from the countless private businesses that have let employees go, both high level and low level, for speaking out against random initiatives or social issues.

Welcome to At Will employment, I guess.
 

HailStout

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This is part of the problem with that side. They conflate things and make straw man arguments.

Most people in this country, regardless of religion, race, or sexual orientation, agree that someone else should have a right to their opinion even if they don't agree with it.
No one took his opinion away from him. I can have an opinion about the hospital I work for. They can also fire me for it.
 

Drebin

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No one took his opinion away from him. I can have an opinion about the hospital I work for. They can also fire me for it.
He was punished for his opinion. No, he wasn't jailed. His biggest problem was that he sucked at basketball. But then the Bulls could've just cut him for sucking instead of coming out and saying what they said. They made it about his opinion.

I would add to this: When Stephen Colbert got canceled the left made it about speech when the network clearly said it was about poor ratings. Nobody took his opinion away from him, either. But you can't be outraged about one and then make the argument you're making about the other. The only thing consistent here is the inconsistency.
 

QuaoarsKing

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If one of our players did everything that Ivey did - I don’t mean just having a private belief, but repeatedly ranting about how evil gays and Catholics are, preaching in the locker room and making his teammates uncomfortable, etc. - I would support removing the distraction from the team.

I know it would be a shitshow and a lot of fans would disagree, but I would be far from alone in backing up the coach who made that call.

Now dont you imagine that the median Bulls fan is more liberal than the median Mississippi State fan? The controversy here is being stoked by people who don't even care about the NBA in the first place. NBA and Bulls fans aren't the ones getting mad on his behalf.
 

mstateglfr

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Speaking of things that haven’t aged well, Kyrie not being able to play because he refused to take the vaccine is on the Mt. Rushmore of bad decisions. Hindsight is 20/20 but that looks like a terrible decision from the league now.
I had forgotten about him sitting out.

You are misremembering the issue, as @HailStout already pointed out, but even still- that is hardly on the Mt Rushmore of bad NBA decisions.
It is a blip from half a decade ago.

Are you going to blame the NBA for unvaccinated players also not being able to travel to Toronto and play?
 

Drebin

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I had forgotten about him sitting out.

You are misremembering the issue, as @HailStout already pointed out, but even still- that is hardly on the Mt Rushmore of bad NBA decisions.
It is a blip from half a decade ago.

Are you going to blame the NBA for unvaccinated players also not being able to travel to Toronto and play?
If someone is being oppressed for espousing a personal belief, does it matter who's doing the oppressing?
 

HailStout

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But you can't be outraged about one and then make the argument you're making about the other. The only thing consistent here is the inconsistency.

I’m not outraged about any of it. I think most people don’t give a crap about the opinion of a way below average basketball player.

the optics of Colbert were not good. Three days after he makes a very negative statement about Trump and paramount he is fired. Maybe he was fired for ratings, but if you fire him 3 days after he said something that can potentially screw up a financial deal you are trying to get through, it’s normal for people to ask questions.

ETA: but if they did fire him for pissing Trump off, they have every right to do so. It would make me more uncomfortable because you are doing it to make the commander and chief happy and that is treading towards suppressing free speech by the government , although technically not

I’m also tired of everything being “the left” and “the right”. There are those of us that think that both sides can’t see reality because they are too concerned with being 100% right on every single issue that presents its self, no matter how important or not important it is
 
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johnson86-1

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This is the biggest problem you wackadoo nutjobs have. You think your echo chamber is much bigger than it is.
I think he is right on this one. It's probably more like a 40/60 or 60/40 issue. Hard to say because of social desirability bias and/or demand bias. Also not sure how well the difference between "I think it's wrong but the government shouldn't try to stop it/discourage it" and "I don't think it's wrong".

Regardless, it's ridiculous that holding a 40/60 view would be reason to disqualify anybody from employment. Not sure that's what happened here as opposed to other stuff going on. The coach could just be pandering and also avoiding the "we thought he might have a mental health crisis and we wanted to cut ties before we had to deal with that" look.
 
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Drebin

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I’m not outraged about any of it. I think most people don’t give a crap about the opinion of a way below average basketball player.

the optics of Colbert was not good. Three days after he makes a very negative statement about Trump and paramount he is fired. Maybe he was fired for ratings, but if you fire him 3 days after he said something that can potentially screw up a financial deal you are trying to get through, it’s normal for people to ask questions.

I’m also tired of everything being “the left” and “the right”. There are those of that think that both sides can’t see reality because they are too concerned with being 100% right on every single issue that presents its self, no matter how important or not important it is
The right does plenty of bad stuff too. That's not what this is about.

I support your right to believe what you believe even if I don't agree with it. I support your right to speak out on it, as I assume you would for me, because I try to assume the best in most people. Some groups are protected in those ways. Some aren't. And that's the problem.
 

mstateglfr

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He was punished for his opinion. No, he wasn't jailed. His biggest problem was that he sucked at basketball. But then the Bulls could've just cut him for sucking instead of coming out and saying what they said. They made it about his opinion.

I would add to this: When Stephen Colbert got canceled the left made it about speech when the network clearly said it was about poor ratings. Nobody took his opinion away from him, either. But you can't be outraged about one and then make the argument you're making about the other. The only thing consistent here is the inconsistency.
Yeah, if someone thinks that both corporate justifications were bullshít, you feel they should be equally outraged.
Fair.
 

Drebin

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I think he is right on this one. It's probably more like a 40/60 or 60/40 issue. Hard to say because of social desirability bias and/or demand bias. Also not sure how well the difference between "I think it's wrong but the government shouldn't try to stop it/discourage it" and "I don't think it's wrong".

Regardless, it's ridiculous that holding a 40/60 view would be reason to disqualify anybody from employment. Not sure that's what happened here as opposed to other stuff going on. The coach could just be pandering and also avoiding the "we thought he might have a mental health crisis and we wanted to cut ties before we had to deal with that" look.
The 80/20 number is about believing people have the right to speak on that which they believe they agree, not on whether they support LGBTQ causes or not.
 
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johnson86-1

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Speaking of things that haven’t aged well, Kyrie not being able to play because he refused to take the vaccine is on the Mt. Rushmore of bad decisions. Hindsight is 20/20 but that looks like a terrible decision from the league now.
That was a terrible decision without the benefit of hindsight. There was just never a threat to healthy people to justify that kind of overreach and never proof that the vaccine reduced transmissibility enough force compliance like that. We had plenty of data in at the point the vaccine became available to know that wasn't reasonable.

We just had a bunch of garbage people in government at all levels that were really offended people questioned their judgment. I think had they not so obviously been wrong about so much, they wouldn't have been so offended and wanted to be punitive with restrictions that they largely exempted themselves from.
 
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Drebin

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What the 17?
I was agreeing with your comment.
I didn't take it that way, because the corporate justifications weren't the same. One chose to point to performance over language, and the other chose to point to language over performance.
 

QuaoarsKing

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I would add to this: When Stephen Colbert got canceled the left made it about speech when the network clearly said it was about poor ratings. Nobody took his opinion away from him, either. But you can't be outraged about one and then make the argument you're making about the other. The only thing consistent here is the inconsistency.
The key difference is that Colbert's cancelation was directly encouraged by the Trump Administration. CBS had the right to fire him for whatever reason, including politics, but it's a big problem with when the government is tipping the scales.

They tried it again even more blatantly with Kimmel later, so badly that even conservatives like Ted Cruz were saying it was overreach.

If, say, the governor of Illinois pressured the Bulls to do this, then yes that would be analogous to Colbert/Kimmel and a big problem, but the Bulls deciding on their own is a different story.
 

QuaoarsKing

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If someone is being oppressed for espousing a personal belief, does it matter who's doing the oppressing?
Yes? Putting aside the question of whether anyone has been "opressed" in this particular case, its far worse if the government does it than if a private business does it.
 

Drebin

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The key difference is that Colbert's cancelation was directly encouraged by the Trump Administration. CBS had the right to fire him for whatever reason, including politics, but it's a big problem with when the government is tipping the scales.

They tried it again even more blatantly with Kimmel later, so badly that even conservatives like Ted Cruz were saying it was overreach.

If, say, the governor of Illinois pressured the Bulls to do this, then yes that would be analogous to Colbert/Kimmel and a big problem, but the Bulls deciding on their own is a different story.
The government tipping the scales on colbert is a biased take. The only people who think that happened are sympathetic to colbert. CBS has clarified that plenty but people still allow their own biases to ignore truths because TRUMP.

Kimmel got suspended, not fired, and what he said was disgraceful. I don't think he should've been punished over it...having to look at himself in the mirror is punishment enough for me.
 

Drebin

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Yes? Putting aside the question of whether anyone has been "opressed" in this particular case, its far worse if the government does it than if a private business does it.
I agree. So it was terrible that Canada wouldn't allow Kyrie to play in Toronto over a personal conviction. Glad we're aligned on that.
 

HotMop

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If you are a nonproductive bench player in the NBA it’s probably best not to make potentially controversial statements. LeBron? Durant? Tatum? The Joker? SGA? They are going to get a lot more leeway.

same way I used to listen to a lot of ******** from a girl if she had a nice rack.
He is far from a non productive bench player, he's coming back from a broken leg.
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i'm so glad i amputated christianity from my life almost 30 years ago. it really is a garbage religion full of garbage people.
chris jericho festival of friendship GIF by WWE
 
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mstateglfr

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Kimmel got suspended, not fired, and what he said was disgraceful. I don't think he should've been punished over it...having to look at himself in the mirror is punishment enough for me.
Kimmel was suspended because Carr made it very clear that he wanted action.

Please post the disgraceful quote. It's been over half a year ago and I don't remember what Kimmel's exact quote was.
I may misremember because I didn't think it was anything close to 'disgraceful'.
 
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Kimmel was suspended because Carr made it very clear that he wanted action.

Please post the disgraceful quote. It's been over half a year ago and I don't remember what Kimmel's exact quote was.
I may misremember because I didn't think it was anything close to 'disgraceful'.
"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it."
 

POTUS

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CBS had the right to fire him for whatever reason, including politics, but it's a big problem with when the government is tipping the scales.
I agree with this, but it also applies to how the government behaved in relation to social media post-covid. The Biden Administration was putting pressure on social media companies to silence dissent. To me, that is a much greater crime than a failing late night host losing his show.
 
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Let's make it clear - he was not let go for his beliefs. He was let go because he was making several dumbass IG livestreams for hours apiece where he was condemning and attacking more than just homophobia. He blasted CATHOLICISM ffs. He called Catholicism a false religion.

If you actually listen to him - he is trending on a Kanye West level on manic ranting. He needs serious help because something is mentally off (not his beliefs, how he's sharing them, how he sounds, his mania).

No good controversy goes unused - this shouldn't really be a left or right thing. This is a dude with the ramblings of a corner store crackhead having a platform to display his mania. If folks try to platform him and keep him relevant then this will escalate much like Kanye's right wing grifting turned into insane neo-nazi for a bit.

He's a replacement level bench player - he's talent is not worth his crazy.

Yeah, this isn't true. NBA fanbases are not constructed any differently than the general population. And this is an 80/20 issue where the 80s (also known as normal people) agree with the player's take, but are afraid to speak up about it because of the virtue signaling from the 20. And the 20 uses this like a weapon, because they're pieces of shlt. And organizational leaders (like Billy Donovan in this case) would rather bow to the 20 than take a principled stand because they're gigantic seeping pooswahs.

This isn't about taking a side. It's about allowing diversity of thought. That's only allowed when the 20s align with the opinion being made.
Normal people? What a bunch of hootnanny. How do educated people still believe a bunch of crazy tales written 2500 years ago by people who didn't even know the world was round? I'll tell you how, because it makes them feel morally superior - case in point, "normal people." I've got to go write my letter to Santa Claus.
 

POTUS

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"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it."
But he cried later, so it's all good. With hindsight, how stupid does Kimmel look? The joke isn't remotely funny (is there even a joke here?) or based in fact (the shooter was a leftist). I imagine his audience's IQ is below room temperature.
 

POTUS

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Normal people? What a bunch of hootnanny. How do educated people still believe a bunch of crazy tales written 2500 years ago by people who didn't even know the world was round? I'll tell you how, because it makes them feel morally superior - case in point, "normal people." I've got to go write my letter to Santa Claus.
Without those people you wouldn't have the periodic table, the laws of thermodynamics, or modern genetics, amongst other amazing contributions from Christians. But hey, let's paint with a broad brush a little.
 
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QuaoarsKing

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Without those people you wouldn't have the periodic table, the laws of thermodynamics, or modern genetics, amongst other amazing contributions from Christians. But hey, let's paint with a broad brush a little.
Did you leave out Copernicus and Lemaître (the two most important astronomers to our modern understanding of the universe) because they were Catholic priests, or did you just make a comment in passing and forget them?
 

mstateglfr

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"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it."
Ok, yeah that is what I remember causing some to clutch pearls. I remember both the left and the right working really hard to try and distance the shooter from their side.

I guess I am just not as easily offended as Drebin because Kimmel's quote doesnt seem anything close to disgraceful.
Or maybe I am seeing everything through really jaded lenses and see Kimmel's comment a relatively tame compared to the daily horrible things that Kirk said, Trump says, Noem said, Hegseth says, Patel says, Leavitt says, etc.


Thanks for posting what he said- I didnt want to assume and miss that Kimmel said something worse.
I do think it was a dumb thing for Kimmel to say. It is unfortunately on par with how so many with media power shoot first and ask questions later, if ever.
 

CochiseCowbell

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Normal people? What a bunch of hootnanny. How do educated people still believe a bunch of crazy tales written 2500 years ago by people who didn't even know the world was round? I'll tell you how, because it makes them feel morally superior - case in point, "normal people." I've got to go write my letter to Santa Claus.

Ancient Greeks and many other peoples knew the world was a sphere.
 

DT4248

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The right does plenty of bad stuff too. That's not what this is about.

I support your right to believe what you believe even if I don't agree with it. I support your right to speak out on it, as I assume you would for me, because I try to assume the best in most people. Some groups are protected in those ways. Some aren't. And that's the problem.
"you must tolerate intolerance or you yourself are intolerant" is dumb batman logic.

"you killed but if i kill you im just like you."

dude spewed all kinds of hate speech against Catholics, gays, and more. he isn't being arrested for it. he has his freedom of speech to do that. but the bulls have their own freedom of speech to say "yea we don't like that - so we're removing you from the team."

he still gets full salary by the way when he's waived. so his rights aren't being infringed in any way. both parties are exercising freedom of speech and no one is arrested. that's how freedom works.
 

Drebin

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"you must tolerate intolerance or you yourself are intolerant" is dumb batman logic.

"you killed but if i kill you im just like you."

dude spewed all kinds of hate speech against Catholics, gays, and more. he isn't being arrested for it. he has his freedom of speech to do that. but the bulls have their own freedom of speech to say "yea we don't like that - so we're removing you from the team."

he still gets full salary by the way when he's waived. so his rights aren't being infringed in any way. both parties are exercising freedom of speech and no one is arrested. that's how freedom works.
"I don't like it therefore it must be hate speech"

You need to go back to what you learned in kindergarten: "sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me." The older we get, the dumber we get sometimes.
 

POTUS

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Did you leave out Copernicus and Lemaître (the two most important astronomers to our modern understanding of the universe) because they were Catholic priests, or did you just make a comment in passing and forget them?
I couldn't possibly include all the Christians who've contributed to our understanding of the world. I just grabbed a few Newton, Mendel, etc. to stand in for all of them. Catholic or Protestant, they fit the description of @CoastRat.sixpack
 

Irondawg

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He was cut because he went Kanye on a lot of stuff and the team didn't want to deal with the headache he was already causing in the lockeroom. If they had just cut him for conduct detrimental to the team, that's fine. The problem is the reasoning they gave for his release and their PR people should know better because now you're highlighting some potential double standards.

I have no problem with teams having a Pride Day, a Dog Day, whatever at the fields. But the players shouldn't be forced to wear anything that shows support for things that not all people support. The US soccer rainbow jerseys are a great example.
 
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