Toggle sidebar

Big East needs to expand…….

H

Hall91

Junior
Jun 4, 2001
128
250
33
I think we’ve reached the point where the power in numbers is now a problem for the Big East to get its fair share of bids. With the B1G at I think 18 (maybe more), SEC, ACC, and Big 12 all at 16 the deck is stacked in their favor to get more coveted Quad 1 wins and force more bids their way given the current Metrics system. Yes, no doubt there are very good teams, but I think the middle of the pack of those conferences are getting the benefit of the doubt/metrics and it hurts our middle of the pack.

Val Ackerman needs to earn her salary and figure out how to get the Conference competitive again while also maximizing the valuable TV revenue pie. Seems like the best approach would be to take the top teams in A-10 that also provide new TV markets. Give me:

Dayton
St Louis
VCU
Davidson

Maybe George Mason, Duquesne; whoever brings more TV audience although it’s likely marginally different.

Make it a requirement that all teams need at least 6 Power 4 OOC games scheduled to get the strength of schedules up and get the Quad 1 win possibilities up as well. Earn your salary Val Ackerman! Do something!

This may also hurt SHU, but it’s put up or shut time for our program. The Administration has to figure out how they’ll raise the $ to get the player revenue pool up. God knows they figured out how to raise $40M+ for a Basketball Facility; great minds can figure out a way.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: TheHall87 and Silkcity Pirate
S

Section112

Senior
Feb 4, 2003
320
756
93
I think we need another agreement for a tourney with one of the Big 4 conferences again to add 1 power 4 game to our schedule. And our coaches need to play to the NET a little more. Sharing the TV revenue with added teams may mean less revenue which equates to less NIL $ available. Not sure that is what we need.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VegasPJ1
H

hallwins

Senior
Sep 7, 2001
418
591
93
Hall91 said:
I think we’ve reached the point where the power in numbers is now a problem for the Big East to get its fair share of bids. With the B1G at I think 18 (maybe more), SEC, ACC, and Big 12 all at 16 the deck is stacked in their favor to get more coveted Quad 1 wins and force more bids their way given the current Metrics system. Yes, no doubt there are very good teams, but I think the middle of the pack of those conferences are getting the benefit of the doubt/metrics and it hurts our middle of the pack.

Val Ackerman needs to earn her salary and figure out how to get the Conference competitive again while also maximizing the valuable TV revenue pie. Seems like the best approach would be to take the top teams in A-10 that also provide new TV markets. Give me:

Dayton
St Louis
VCU
Davidson

Maybe George Mason, Duquesne; whoever brings more TV audience although it’s likely marginally different.

Make it a requirement that all teams need at least 6 Power 4 OOC games scheduled to get the strength of schedules up and get the Quad 1 win possibilities up as well. Earn your salary Val Ackerman! Do something!

This may also hurt SHU, but it’s put up or shut time for our program. The Administration has to figure out how they’ll raise the $ to get the player revenue pool up. God knows they figured out how to raise $40M+ for a Basketball Facility; great minds can figure out a way.
Click to expand...
Our league out of conference performance is what did the league in. Uconn performed well OOC. Seton Hall won games but the schedule turned poor with K State, USC and Rutgers being poor teams. NOVA beat Wisconsin but lost to BYU and Michigan both on the road.

Ironically, St John's really hurt with its OOC performance from both a metric and subjective view of the conference. Lost to everyone but Ole Miss for a pre season highly ranked team.

Perform better OOC. our league metrics will bump up. Not sure expanding just to expand is the way to go to secure bids.

All that being said, Seton Hall wins 3 more games - one or two of which are Q1s - and they are in.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BobbieSolo and TommyD82
G

Garyshu1971

Sophomore
Jul 13, 2025
64
116
32
That’s pretty funny. Those markets are minuscule! And what have those teams done lately?? Of course all eleven existing teams would be glad to take a pay cut to bring them in!!??? Actually it’s much simpler than that ….. 9 teams get much better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fishjam, BobbieSolo, Ann_S and 3 others
N

NCAAsorBust

Junior
Jan 14, 2026
486
399
63
If there’s a team out there that has more NIL money than half of the league then we should consider. Otherwise no. It’s not about quantity in numbers, it’s about the quality players their NIL can afford.
 
H

HallGuy2323

Senior
Jun 3, 2020
653
433
63
Hall91 said:
I think we’ve reached the point where the power in numbers is now a problem for the Big East to get its fair share of bids. With the B1G at I think 18 (maybe more), SEC, ACC, and Big 12 all at 16 the deck is stacked in their favor to get more coveted Quad 1 wins and force more bids their way given the current Metrics system. Yes, no doubt there are very good teams, but I think the middle of the pack of those conferences are getting the benefit of the doubt/metrics and it hurts our middle of the pack.

Val Ackerman needs to earn her salary and figure out how to get the Conference competitive again while also maximizing the valuable TV revenue pie. Seems like the best approach would be to take the top teams in A-10 that also provide new TV markets. Give me:

Dayton
St Louis
VCU
Davidson

Maybe George Mason, Duquesne; whoever brings more TV audience although it’s likely marginally different.

Make it a requirement that all teams need at least 6 Power 4 OOC games scheduled to get the strength of schedules up and get the Quad 1 win possibilities up as well. Earn your salary Val Ackerman! Do something!

This may also hurt SHU, but it’s put up or shut time for our program. The Administration has to figure out how they’ll raise the $ to get the player revenue pool up. God knows they figured out how to raise $40M+ for a Basketball Facility; great minds can figure out a way.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I’ve been saying it, Expansion is necessary now. Not in 5 years. I would take it a step further. Get Syracuse and Pittsburgh back. Let Syracuse stay in the ACC for football and BE for everything else. Yes it can happen, there’s no rules. Then go after St. Louis, Rhode Island, VCU or similar
 
G

Garyshu1971

Sophomore
Jul 13, 2025
64
116
32
HallGuy2323 said:
Agreed. I’ve been saying it, Expansion is necessary now. Not in 5 years. I would take it a step further. Get Syracuse and Pittsburgh back. Let Syracuse stay in the ACC for football and BE for everything else. Yes it can happen, there’s no rules. Then go after St. Louis, Rhode Island, VCU or similar
Click to expand...
Ha! So now the Big East is going to tell SU what to do. This thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute. As if the ACC would ever allow any of this to happen. Dream on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobbieSolo, HALL85, Ann_S and 3 others
H

HallGuy2323

Senior
Jun 3, 2020
653
433
63
Garyshu1971 said:
Ha! So now the Big East is going to tell SU what to do. This thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute. As if the ACC would ever allow any of this to happen. Dream on.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s how conferences realignment works. You reach out, then you make a deal. Idk about you but I’ve seen it happen just a little bit the last 10 years.
 
L

lloyde dobler

All-Conference
Jan 26, 2004
729
1,100
82
First of all, TV markets don’t matter anymore. It‘s not 1979.

Secondly, are you prepared for SHU to get 1/15th of the revenue instead of 1/11th?

Thirdly, how are any of those schools going to change the metrics when you are already playing 20 conference games? Davidson…. Really? If anything, losing dates against UConn, St John’s, Nova, Creighton, etc., and replacing them with any of the schools mentioned makes no sense.

Fourthly, Pitt and Syracuse are happy to be making the millions and millions more that they are in ACC than to do anything as silly as what was mentioned above. Same with BC.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Left Coast Pirates, HALL85, Ann_S and 8 others
Bud Boomer

Bud Boomer

All-Conference
Dec 24, 2007
610
1,762
93
The last realignment showed that the Big East can elevate mid major programs into national ones. Creighton is now a monster. Xavier has been excellent since joining.

While I think Dayton and STL can make big jumps in the BE, the risk is not worth diluting what we have. Plus, we currently have too many schools (Seton Hall included) that look like mid majors with their spending and roster turnover. We don’t need any more of that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shu67
H

Hall91

Junior
Jun 4, 2001
128
250
33
lloyde dobler said:
First of all, TV markets don’t matter anymore. It‘s not 1979.

Secondly, are you prepared for SHU to get 1/15th of the revenue instead of 1/11th?

Thirdly, how are any of those schools going to change the metrics when you are already playing 20 conference games? Davidson…. Really? If anything, losing games against UConn, St John’s, Nova, Creighton, etc., and replacing them with any of the schools mentioned makes no sense.

Fourthly, Pitt and Syracuse are happy to be making the millions and millions more that they are in ACC than to do anything as silly as what was mentioned above. Same with BC.
Click to expand...
I don’t know what the right answere are, but it’s up to the Commissioner to do some Business Development work to see what makes sense. Agreed that the #1 priority is maximizing TV revenue per team and if it gets diluted, you can’t do it. But go and consult with your current TV contract partners to see what makes sense to them and see if it’s viable. Yes, likely that we win 1 or 2 games against the Big 3 in our league and we’re likely in the NCAAs this year. But the bar keeps getting higher for our league with the metrics.
 
PirateBlue08

PirateBlue08

Junior
Jul 25, 2025
352
375
63
Diluting an already diluted product is never the answer. You fix the current product, which I believe is happening.

Coaching changes including Willard, Holtmann, and Hodgkinson are significantly better than their predecessors. We still have some potential weak links with Butler who needs to hit a home run with this hire, and Cooley is terrible let's be honest. And the uncertainty with the Creighton situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: radecicco and Left Coast Pirates
N

NYShoreGuy

Senior
Jan 7, 2006
1,710
824
113
Hall91 said:
I don’t know what the right answere are, but it’s up to the Commissioner to do some Business Development work to see what makes sense. Agreed that the #1 priority is maximizing TV revenue per team and if it gets diluted, you can’t do it. But go and consult with your current TV contract partners to see what makes sense to them and see if it’s viable. Yes, likely that we win 1 or 2 games against the Big 3 in our league and we’re likely in the NCAAs this year. But the bar keeps getting higher for our league with the metrics.
Click to expand...
But they actually just did platform deals to come from different pots.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TommyD82
H

HallGuy2323

Senior
Jun 3, 2020
653
433
63
lloyde dobler said:
First of all, TV markets don’t matter anymore. It‘s not 1979.

Secondly, are you prepared for SHU to get 1/15th of the revenue instead of 1/11th?

Thirdly, how are any of those schools going to change the metrics when you are already playing 20 conference games? Davidson…. Really? If anything, losing dates against UConn, St John’s, Nova, Creighton, etc., and replacing them with any of the schools mentioned makes no sense.

Fourthly, Pitt and Syracuse are happy to be making the millions and millions more that they are in ACC than to do anything as silly as what was mentioned above. Same with BC.
Click to expand...
Syracuse doesn’t look too happy to me…

 
T

TommyD82

Freshman
Jul 6, 2025
98
63
18
hallwins said:
Our league out of conference performance is what did the league in. Uconn performed well OOC. Seton Hall won games but the schedule turned poor with K State, USC and Rutgers being poor teams. NOVA beat Wisconsin but lost to BYU and Michigan both on the road.

Ironically, St John's really hurt with its OOC performance from both a metric and subjective view of the conference. Lost to everyone but Ole Miss for a pre season highly ranked team.

Perform better OOC. our league metrics will bump up. Not sure expanding just to expand is the way to go to secure bids.

All that being said, Seton Hall wins 3 more games - one or two of which are Q1s - and they are in.
Click to expand...
That is how Georgia got in if you ask me. Two wins Arkansas and Alabama. If we had beaten UConn & SJU we could have been in but I never trust the committee. Anybody who wants to expand with teams like Duquense is crazy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobbieSolo, cernjSHU, Garyshu1971 and 3 others
H

HallGuy2323

Senior
Jun 3, 2020
653
433
63
TommyD82 said:
That is how Georgia got in if you ask me. Two wins Arkansas and Alabama. If we had beaten UConn & SJU we could have been in but I never trust the committee. Anybody who wants to expand with teams like Duquense is crazy.
Click to expand...
So you want to rely on having to beat the two best - top 10ish teams every year or be left out.. exactly why expansion is needed. More quality chances in the quad 2 range.
 
H

hallwins

Senior
Sep 7, 2001
418
591
93
HallGuy2323 said:
So you want to rely on having to beat the two best - top 10ish teams every year or be left out.. exactly why expansion is needed. More quality chances in the quad 2 range.
Click to expand...
That is not necessary. We need the rest of the conference to perform better out of conference. So there are more quad, one and quad two opportunities outside of playing top ten teams
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fishjam, radecicco and Left Coast Pirates
C

CTF591011

Freshman
Jan 24, 2026
163
69
28
I definitely think expansion would be great. Think about it too, new pac-12 with Zaga, SDSU, Utah state, Colorado state, and I think other MWC teams is coming next year that is more competition.

I think you can either just add schools like VCU and Dayton who o believe are one of the best mid majors in recent years and I think can help elevate Big east and their programs.

The other is probably difficult and don’t know is likely, but would bring star power that could get big east more respect is getting back Syracuse and someone like Pitt. Maybe even get Boston College since it’s like of irrelevant in basketball lol.

I do think Syracuse coming back, could hurt us since they can steal a lot more local talent Compared to someone like Dayton or vcu.

Still we were able to compete back in the late 80s, 90s, and when Nova were winning championships.

in general if we invest, I believe we can be like 2016-2022 which is honestly all realistic fans ask for.

I think Dayton and vcu are the best and would make sense with being pure basketball and have been solid programs.

We found also split and get Syracuse and one of Dayton and vcu which could also be nice.

it’s just complicated with the football thing, but considering they just formed a new PAC-12 with Zaga having no football, couldn’t they just allow an exception for Syracuse?
 
S

STLPirate12

Junior
Mar 16, 2017
220
216
43
I love the 11 team double round robin, but I'd strike now on Saint Louis. Shertz just turned down Syracuse to sign a 6 year extension at SLU and with his track record, I expect he'll continue to be in the rumor mill as long as he's coaching an A10 school. A move to the Big East would help them retain him and possibly give him a chance to create a monster, which only benefits the league.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HallGuy2323
D

dehere23

All-Conference
Feb 28, 2015
1,061
1,043
113
I'm not a fan of expansion, but if you are going to expand, it seems you better take on a bunch of consistent, big time heavy hitters (a la that Big East/ACC basketball "super conference" that was floated last season). Then you aren't reliant on two or three teams to carry the league.
 
P

phelanma

Freshman
Feb 19, 2010
55
83
18
Expanding to 16 teams moves us closer to the missouri valley conference and further from the power 4 (soon to be five again)
 
S

shu67

Senior
Jun 12, 2021
691
480
63
What makes sense is putting a hair saloon and tattoo parlor on campus as an attraction for potential recruits and offering them in addition to big NIL contracts, free on campus tattoo and hair services to fit their egos.
 
D

dehere23

All-Conference
Feb 28, 2015
1,061
1,043
113
hallwins said:
Our league out of conference performance is what did the league in. Uconn performed well OOC. Seton Hall won games but the schedule turned poor with K State, USC and Rutgers being poor teams. NOVA beat Wisconsin but lost to BYU and Michigan both on the road.

Ironically, St John's really hurt with its OOC performance from both a metric and subjective view of the conference. Lost to everyone but Ole Miss for a pre season highly ranked team.

Perform better OOC. our league metrics will bump up. Not sure expanding just to expand is the way to go to secure bids.

All that being said, Seton Hall wins 3 more games - one or two of which are Q1s - and they are in.
Click to expand...
One of the primary reasons to schedule a real OOC is so that you aren't reliant on other teams. Schedule a real OOC and you don't need to worry about this stuff nearly as much.

The narrative around SJU's OOC was wildly overblown and often misstated in retrospect, but regardless was about SJU itself, not the Big East as a whole. Baylor and Ole Miss not being good probably cost them seeding-wise because those wins were discounted, but the 4 losses to teams that were in the Sweet 16 now, were in the Round of 32 or even on the bubble like Auburn didn't really hurt them that much beyond costing them a 2/3 seed.

Any W over Uconn or SJU by anyone else in the Big East was going to be a "good" win, regardless of location. So every team in the league had a chance to prop up their resumes by winning those games. The problem was wins over basically everyone else were "discounted".

The perception starts with what your roster looks like, which is what effects the various rankings people care about preseason, whether that be the AP, Kenpom, etc. If BE teams have a strong offseason, and schedule real OOCs top-to-bottom, it will help everyone and we won't be reliant on 1 or 2 teams to do the job for everyone else.
 
H

hallwins

Senior
Sep 7, 2001
418
591
93
Gonzaga was the pull all stops candidate. We failed. I don’t think Notre Dame helps.
I do think a merger with ACC could help but then we are back to no commonality of interests across the board.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TommyD82
S

Seton75

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
36,376
2,509
113
Last yr we got 5 bids. XU got a surprise bid to join sj, uconn, mu and cu. The yr before we got 3 but SHU got screwed. Back to 3 this yr. Is this yr the future or an anomaly?

I dont know. I say stand pat. Sharing the media money with teams that dont move the beedle? And I like the home and home.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hallwins and Ann_S
D

dehere23

All-Conference
Feb 28, 2015
1,061
1,043
113
TommyD82 said:
That is how Georgia got in if you ask me. Two wins Arkansas and Alabama. If we had beaten UConn & SJU we could have been in but I never trust the committee. Anybody who wants to expand with teams like Duquense is crazy.
Click to expand...
I don't think it was just the ARK and Bama wins though. They also had Ws against Kentucky (NCAA team), Auburn (bubble team), Texas (NCAA team), Missouri (NCAA team), and even Cincy who was I think a "bubble" team at one point.
 
H

Hall1996

Freshman
Jun 5, 2001
100
77
28
The new PAC 12 is basically the Mountain West conference for football and the MW + Gonzaga for basketball. I do not see that conference as stealing bids, will basically be a redistribution of bids from MW & WCC.

Also bigger is not always better when comes to conference size, it is about quality of teams added. The ACC which used to dominate in basketball, has gotten bigger in recent years, but has not led to more teams making tourney, has maybe led to less if you look at their bids and teams that make Sweet 16 in recent years.

Instead of expansion, the BE needs to build better teams (money/NIL), schedule better OOC and obviously play better. Strategic OOC matchups would be the best option, not sure we can one going again with one of P4 conferences. If not, maybe find a way to play best schools from a lower level conferences like A10, PAC12 or even select AAC, even if it means playing some of those schools on road or neutral sites.
 
  • Like
Reactions: radecicco
D

dehere23

All-Conference
Feb 28, 2015
1,061
1,043
113
Seton75 said:
We had Michigan scheduled, didnt we, and nova stole game??

We lost some (4) winnable BE games and the 4 uconn/sj games were killers 2. We lost the bid in conference if you ask me.
Click to expand...
True. If we win 2 of those games we have a good chance at 12-8.

But why put all your eggs in a smaller basketball? Schedule a real OOC even without guaranteed "home and homes" because people do not want to play at the Rock per se, and MSG is a difficult place to schedule with everyone and everything that is going to take priority over a Seton Hall basketball game. The only reason not do do that is if you want to come into the conference season with a gaudy, propped up record that isn't indicative of how good you are, which is what happened this year to the Hall. I know Sha probably hates having a series of strong November/December OOC "tests" on the schedule, because like most coaches he wants more time for his team to play together and gel, especially in this era. But having an OOC like we did this year makes things so much harder for us in the league unless you are guaranteed to have 50% or more Quad 1 opportunities, which isn't the Big East right now.
 
L

lloyde dobler

All-Conference
Jan 26, 2004
729
1,100
82
HallGuy2323 said:
So you want to rely on having to beat the two best - top 10ish teams every year or be left out.. exactly why expansion is needed. More quality chances in the quad 2 range.
Click to expand...
That makes no sense. Because you are adding games with those teams to lose ones with others. You already are playing 20, it’s not like you are adding more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom