Jersey Jump Shot: What's next for Seton Hall
- Thread starter Halldan
- Start date
No one better than Jerry. I dread if he ever retires. The clowns at NJ.com are an insult to sports journalism
As Jerry noted, he'll have a lot more tomorrow in an article he's writing. I won't be home so post it here when you see it.
Looks like Carino got the attention of the powers that be with his article calling out the BOR and the President. If that’s what it takes to get them to fund the program properly I’m all for it. Good on Jerry for taking initiative.
Need $8 million. Will the admin come thru. This is not an Athletic Department issue. The commitment to be competitive in hoops must come from the highest level of the University. We’ll know soon.
Another interesting take by Jerry: SHU has the three most important ingredients for success in the program right now— coach, point guard and center. This is our chance to build continuity off a surprisingly good season. Another we’ll know soon.
Another interesting take by Jerry: SHU has the three most important ingredients for success in the program right now— coach, point guard and center. This is our chance to build continuity off a surprisingly good season. Another we’ll know soon.
Listened to whole podcast.
I thought a lot of what Jerry said about our season was reasonable, good and fair. Like that he showed some chutzpah following up his article by again putting pressure on the President and BOR on the financial piece (I hate that school funds are devoted to this stuff, but at least he is taking on authority and stating his honest opinion).
I don't understand though how you discuss our season in depth, highlight all the good things, without mentioning word one about what Sha's teams have done on the offensive side of the ball and any constructive criticism or commentary in that respect. Nor did I agree with his comment about how "Seton Hall did its job" in the OOC when talking about how the Big East as a league needs to schedule better in the OOC. Come on. We had a good OOC -- better than I expected -- but the OOC was soft as hell, and that bore out over the course of the season. We played one NCAA team, and that was a bubble team that got eliminated in Dayton. We knew the OOC wasn't good before the season.
Give Willard credit here - he played some local teams but when he had talent challenged them out of conference. That said, who thought that GT, Marquette, Xavier would be so bad. And Creighton.
100% Great post. Sha has been anemic on the offensive end his entire career as a coach. This needs to change and change now. He needs to bring in an offensive coordinator and actually run an offense instead of playing street ball. Not sure how hard it is to run sets, but seems like an impossible ask for this coach for some reason. He needs to adapt ASAP
Love that Jerry got the attention of the school's decision-makers and doubled down to keep pressure on them. However I am concerned that he's using $8M as the magic number. $8M was last year's number to be average in the BE. I expect that number to jump to $10M. That is the number needed to keep our guys and add quality players. 8M just puts us where we were this year.
Seton Hall definitely can't afford to keep up every year in this never-ending arms race. But they need to be able to push their chips forward and go big when the stars align. They need to be able to read the market and read where our potential is. When it looks like we have a unique opportunity to be really good, discretionary funds need to be unlocked. This is an area they have failed at during the pay for play era.
Sha has shown that players improve with him if he can keep them for a 2nd year. That is a strength that we have not been able to fully capitalize on.
A few hundred grand would have kept Tyrese Samuel to make the NCAAT in 23/24.
The money was much more substantial the following year but we could have returned 3 starters from a 25-win team but let a 1st Team All BE PG and a 15 & 5 PF walk.
Now we have another All BE PG, a talented 2-way Big Man and several other useful rotation players from a 21-win team. If we can't go big this year to keep our talent together, then we really should stop masquerading as a Big East program. Give Sha the tools to do the job right for 1 year.
Seton Hall definitely can't afford to keep up every year in this never-ending arms race. But they need to be able to push their chips forward and go big when the stars align. They need to be able to read the market and read where our potential is. When it looks like we have a unique opportunity to be really good, discretionary funds need to be unlocked. This is an area they have failed at during the pay for play era.
Sha has shown that players improve with him if he can keep them for a 2nd year. That is a strength that we have not been able to fully capitalize on.
A few hundred grand would have kept Tyrese Samuel to make the NCAAT in 23/24.
The money was much more substantial the following year but we could have returned 3 starters from a 25-win team but let a 1st Team All BE PG and a 15 & 5 PF walk.
Now we have another All BE PG, a talented 2-way Big Man and several other useful rotation players from a 21-win team. If we can't go big this year to keep our talent together, then we really should stop masquerading as a Big East program. Give Sha the tools to do the job right for 1 year.
I call it close but no cigar money. So what is the point of spending that kind of money. Might as well use it to pay off some debt if your not committed to dancing.
To be fair, I think Jerry mentioned $8 million as the price of admission, the minimum amount needed to be competitive, more than as a number that will ensure success. I think he realizes the limitations of Seton Hall's governance and that they are unlikely to do more than the minimum (though that is better than a few years ago, when they would not even do the minimum).
If Sha had another $2 Million, he would’ve had a much better offense, including one or two three-point shooters. You can’t have everything based on his budget last year
Jerry was clear the Hall needs shooters. If you don’t have shooters you do what Sha did with defense and look to maximize points off turnovers. Our defense is what got Sha the CYO in my opinion. He did the best that could be done with his resources. To say otherwise is just empty criticism
I'm a little confused. Many on this forum complain about Sha's offense. Personally, I believe his offensive sets were good it was bad execution. How many times dis we have open 3 pt shots created by his offense that we were NOT able to make. As a result the team was forced to play one on one to often.
Disagree. Some coaches are better on one end compared to the other. Some are top notch at both. If you look at Sha's teams across a big sample, it is pretty clear he favors playing a certain way and is at this point better on one end of the floor. That should be fair criticism.
One more point on this. Yes, if you have the type of personnel we had this past season, a way to "paper over" potential offensive woes is to play defense how we did and score off turnovers. But you can still coach defense that way and believe in that type of defensive pressure/philosophy while having a capable offense and being good at that end of the floor. It is not an either or proposition. Plenty of guys coaching over the next few days have presided over both.
I think they were ranked outside the top 60 (or perhaps top 80) by various offensive metrics. So not bad, but nothing really to brag about either. That was definitely the best offensive team in his tenure though.
Only if you have enough shooters. I’d say we didn’t. Many many open 3s didn’t fall. Not sure that’s on Sha.
What is the going rate for NCAA appearances, on a per-game basis? I know the conference shares this money, but I think SHU has to look at recouping their investment with NCAA games/wins.
We certainly didn't have great shooters. I cannot say based on anecdotal evidence watching all these games if we missed "makeable" 3 points shoots more than the normal course simply because our shooters overall were not that good. I based my view entirely on how Sha's teams have performed over the course of many years between St. Peter's and Seton Hall, with varying personnel. When he was in the MAAC, his teams seemed to play a similar way with less talent obviously. He certainly wasn't Tim Cluess when it came to the offensive output in that league.
That's one way to look at it. How about another -- increased fan attendance and all that goes with that. I have to think if we went from 7,500 to 15,000 at the Rock it would be helpful to the bottom line.
I despise the simplistic "you have to spend money to make money," but it applies here.
I worry what the lack of student interest portends. Is it the revolving door that is collegiate sports? Is it a resentment of the money paid to players? Team was good enough to command at least a decent turnout and we had many games in which the turnout was anemic.
Agreed. Look, as I've stated, I hate, capitalize HATE, that funds are diverted from the schools for this type of stuff. I find that so much more offensive frankly than boosters just paying out of pocket because diverting the school $$ means it goes away from things that matter like financial aid, grants, academics, etc. But this is the system and so if you are going to compete you need to play ball on a certain level. Clearly if you strike it right there can be benefit from having a successful MBB that helps other aspects of the university, even if the ROI isn't anywhere near as direct or frankly good as you want.
I think we all hate where college sports is at. We have to do what it takes. Plus we just built a state of the art $50+ million practice facility yet the leadership won’t commit to supporting a competitive program worthy of that investment? Seems odd. We’ll see soon enough where SHU is at.
The offensive schemes are horrible buf exacerbated by not being able to shoot so defenses could pack ghe paint and dont have to move
Its not on shaheen. A bunch of these guys werent his first option but budget wont allow for better shooters
If vintage Myles Powell were on this team, instead of Williams or TJ, would the offensive schemes be a problem? I think Willard's teams would have looked like ours this year, if not for Powell, Whitehead, Carrington, Mamu, etc.
Shaheen is the GM & HC by choice, can’t say I agree he’s fully absolved of responsibility for his offenses continually being bad. Again, this precedes the NIL era.
With that said the only way to fully know is to give him 8-10 mil and see what he cooks up. There are signs for optimism.
@Konica Guy They actually did run sets at times, I would opine they waste too much of the shot clock pounding the ball 30 feet out and too much movement around the 3 point line with things such as the weave. If your shoulders aren’t facing the basket you’re ultimately not a threat.
A lot of people got on Clark for dribbling too much, I’d argue that wasn’t the issue. Guys did not move enough with the ball, no back cuts or screening for others.
Remember Brunson & Gillespie at Nova? And more recently Kolek at Marquette. Having a PG who can get anywhere on the court is an advantage that wasn’t fully taken advantage of.
With that said the only way to fully know is to give him 8-10 mil and see what he cooks up. There are signs for optimism.
@Konica Guy They actually did run sets at times, I would opine they waste too much of the shot clock pounding the ball 30 feet out and too much movement around the 3 point line with things such as the weave. If your shoulders aren’t facing the basket you’re ultimately not a threat.
A lot of people got on Clark for dribbling too much, I’d argue that wasn’t the issue. Guys did not move enough with the ball, no back cuts or screening for others.
Remember Brunson & Gillespie at Nova? And more recently Kolek at Marquette. Having a PG who can get anywhere on the court is an advantage that wasn’t fully taken advantage of.
Yes, right now we would need the school administration to provide the funds to field a competitive team again next year, but ultimately it does need to be an athletics problem. $10M+ per year in university subsidies to pay the basketball team is not a sustainable model. It can hold us above water for now and field a competitive enough team to give athletics a sellable product, but ultimately athletics needs to find a way to generate the revenue to make this worthwhile. We don't have a lot of competitive advantages at Seton Hall, but one we do have is that we play in an arena that can seat almost 19k for basketball. I believe that's 3rd in the Big East and top 15 in the country. The biggest part of that competitive advantage is that so far we've barely tried to sell half of it. Most schools would need to build a new arena to nearly double their sellable capacity (and importantly revenue potential), we just need to decide we want to use it. Figuring out how to use it and fill it is the key to the future of SHU athletics.
Budget and timing of the full amount due to House settlement had Sha recruiting with IOUs. Now, regardless of what it is, Sha will have the full amount available when the portal opens. Big difference.