Is the entire district enrollment down or just the high school? There must be a lot of people that stick around in that area after their kids have finished school.
Alabama splits Publics and Privates Football State Championships
- Thread starter FootballDad1979
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It’s not as if they are awful. They did make it the 2nd round this past season, where they were eliminated by Naz, who is a top 10 or maybe even top 5 team regardless of class.
This would absolutely be a possibility, but I don’t think the majority would care all that much because they would be playing in their own system with their own rules.Why would the privates stay in the IHSA if they separated?
IMO, privates give the middle finger to the IHSA/publics and go full throttle.
MC with no recruiting rules, transfer rules, 30 mile radius, etc…
Be careful what you wish for…
Isn’t that the case for every district?
You go to a school. You send your kids there. And then they send their kids there.
Yeah that’s generally the norm, but idk the specifics for that district.
If the population has gone up, but the entire school district enrollment has gone down, then obviously the same types of people/families that sent their kids there in the 90s and 2000s are not the type that have been recently moving in to cause the population increase.
Old people aren’t moving and people are having less kids
Some ideas I’ve been thinking…
*advancement of “travel” football leagues, 7 on 7 teams and Midwest boom which has drastically hurt the in house feeder programs in the DuPage Valley
*great coaches retiring/stepping down (WWS, Stevenson, Lake Zurich)
*these areas have become extremely expensive and young families are going further west and south (Batavia, Elburn, Sugar Grove, Oswego, Huntley, Hampshire, Plainfield, Yorkville, Minooka,
I agree. I was thinking about how expensive homes in that area are and how that would deter many young couples that are looking to start a family.
Colin is right on about home prices. The closer you are to the city the more expensive. Oswego has always had good football but you’re starting to see the Hampshire’s, Burlington Central’s of the world increase enrollment and success.
The one program that I can’t figure out is Huntley. They should be better. Not sure why they aren’t. Enrollment is high, lots of athletes and great facilities yet they still lose to Cary-Grove and PR.
Agree on Huntley, at first glance they should be much better.
Since Covid season they are 2-3 against C-G but 0-5 against PR, FWIW.
Huntley lost to CG and PR by one score each this past season. If CG and PR are elite then thats a good showing.
OMG, WHOLE threads? On a FOOTBALL board?
That's a smoking gun if ever there was one.
Probably my least favorite conference due to it being locked. Then we have to try to extrapolate Huntley results to see how CG and PR match up. Maybe they can open it up with the new playoff changes.
I was looking for you at Evanston on Saturday. Asked this guy "are you ramblin man? We got some things to discuss" he told me you were at the field waiting for football season.OMG, WHOLE threads? On a FOOTBALL board?
That's a smoking gun if ever there was one.
they've won (4) playoff games in past 10 years and have 2x/3x the enrollment of CG and PR.
Here's a thought......
If publics/privates separated - wouldn't the public division see more class domination then what is currently taking place?
1A - Lena
2A - Wilmington
3A - Byron
4A - Rochester
5A - Wide Open
6A - ESTL
7A - Batavia (would have won the past 4 titles if not for private schools)
8A - LWE
If publics/privates separated - wouldn't the public division see more class domination then what is currently taking place?
1A - Lena
2A - Wilmington
3A - Byron
4A - Rochester
5A - Wide Open
6A - ESTL
7A - Batavia (would have won the past 4 titles if not for private schools)
8A - LWE
Doubt it but we would see. But if so theyd be playing by the same rules.
1st a split should result in less classes forcing some of these into the same class.
Batavia lost to multiple public schools the last 4 years
LWE lost to 2 pubs this year and had competitive games
ESL is your best bet for this point but even they lost the CG and had a 3 point games with Lemont
Rochester is another bedtime bet but less classes consolidating 4A would bring more challenges
Cant tell you about Byron Wilmington and Lena
That said I think both sets of brackets would be very exciting. Imagine last year MC vs CoM in good weather might be game of the year. SF vs Fenwick, IC vs Loyola... really intriguing stuff here. They should let me select the brackets to make sure we get the games we want.
If they split AND kept 8 public classes, that would be surprising. Might even call it disappointing.
Colin2299 said:
I feel like you're just replacing your private dynasties with public versions of the same in most cases across each class...
List of programs with four or more semi-final appearances since 2001, most to least, all classes
Team [Appearances]
Rochester [14] --- 4A
Maroa-Forsyth [13] --- 2A
Tolono (Unity) [12] --- 3A
East St. Louis [11] --- 6A
Lena-Winslow [11] --- 1A
Lake Zurich [11] --- 7A
Morris [11] --- 5A/6A
Frankfort (Lincoln-Way East) [10] - 8A
Park Ridge (Maine South) [10] - 8A
Cary-Grove [9]
Batavia [9]
Tuscola [9]
Crystal Lake (Prairie Ridge) [8]
Glen Ellyn (Glenbard West) [8]
Byron [8]
Mt. Carmel (The Town) [8]
Wilmington [7]
Wheaton-Warrenville South [7]
Richmond-Burton [7]
Coal City [6]
Metamora [6]
Auburn [6]
Aledo (Mercer Co.) [6]
Stillman Valley [6]
Lemont [6]
Mt. Prospect (Prospect) [6]
Camp Point (Central) [5]
Casey-Westfield [5]
Forreston [5]
Greenville [5]
Carthage (Illini West) [5]
DuQuoin [5]
Edwardsville [5]
Galena [4]
Concord (Triopia) [4]
Shelbyville [4]
St. Joe-Ogden [4]
Monticello [4]
Nashville [4]
LeRoy [4]
Chicago (Phillips) [4]
Geneseo [4]
Sycamore [4]
Bloomington (H.S.) [4]
Crete-Monee [4]
Oak Lawn (Richards) [4]
Geneva [4]
Downers Grove (North) [4]
Libertyville [4]
Carol Stream (Glenbard North) [4]
Lockport (Twp.) [4]
Naperville (Central) [4]
Lol idk man... seems awfully naive...
I feel like you're just replacing your private dynasties with public versions of the same in most cases across each class...
List of programs with four or more semi-final appearances since 2001, most to least, all classes
Team [Appearances]
Rochester [14] --- 4A
Maroa-Forsyth [13] --- 2A
Tolono (Unity) [12] --- 3A
East St. Louis [11] --- 6A
Lena-Winslow [11] --- 1A
Lake Zurich [11] --- 7A
Morris [11] --- 5A/6A
Frankfort (Lincoln-Way East) [10] - 8A
Park Ridge (Maine South) [10] - 8A
Cary-Grove [9]
Batavia [9]
Tuscola [9]
Crystal Lake (Prairie Ridge) [8]
Glen Ellyn (Glenbard West) [8]
Byron [8]
Mt. Carmel (The Town) [8]
Wilmington [7]
Wheaton-Warrenville South [7]
Richmond-Burton [7]
Coal City [6]
Metamora [6]
Auburn [6]
Aledo (Mercer Co.) [6]
Stillman Valley [6]
Lemont [6]
Mt. Prospect (Prospect) [6]
Camp Point (Central) [5]
Casey-Westfield [5]
Forreston [5]
Greenville [5]
Carthage (Illini West) [5]
DuQuoin [5]
Edwardsville [5]
Galena [4]
Concord (Triopia) [4]
Shelbyville [4]
St. Joe-Ogden [4]
Monticello [4]
Nashville [4]
LeRoy [4]
Chicago (Phillips) [4]
Geneseo [4]
Sycamore [4]
Bloomington (H.S.) [4]
Crete-Monee [4]
Oak Lawn (Richards) [4]
Geneva [4]
Downers Grove (North) [4]
Libertyville [4]
Carol Stream (Glenbard North) [4]
Lockport (Twp.) [4]
Naperville (Central) [4]
The part about them playing by the same rules is important. In fact, the most important part.
If MC or Loyola wins 20 private state championships in a row, Id be okay with it since they play by the same rules.
Agreed 100%.
Of course if that happened it would result in probably at least 2-3 CCL school closures. And I know those conversations are happening at a couple of smaller CCL schools right now.
I dont think it would happen though. I think some in the field would find a way to match the talent. Im salivating at a field of:
MC
LA
Naz
Rita
SF
IC
Marist
PC
JCA
SHG
Fenwick
CCHS
Montini
Rice
DPP
Althoff
Right, of course. Same rules... except Mt. Carmel isn't playing by the same rules as Routt as it currently exists for the same reasons at the core of this move. Just ignore that part?
I find it odd that the solution to the problem is to potentially create an even worse situation for the majority of programs in question. Most especially when the cries from the losing side are for "fairness." So unfairness solved with an even more unfair solution. Perfect. On brand for this state though...
Anyways, a list of the private schools that have 4 or more semi appearances in the same time frame, since 2001. Seems awfully similar to the list on the public side, but sure guys...
Chicago (Mt. Carmel) - 17
Lombard (Montini) - 12
Wilmette (Loyola) - 12
New Lenox (Providence) - 11
Joliet (Catholic) - 10
Springfield (SHG) - 10
Chicago (St. Rita) - 9
LaGrange Park (Nazareth) - 9
Elmhurst (IC Catholic) - 7
Addison (Driscoll) - 7
Sterling (Newman) - 6
Wheaton (St. Francis) - 6
Chicago (Marist) - 5
Aurora (Christian) - 5
Rock Island (Alleman) - 4
Rockford (Boylan) - 4
Decatur (St. Teresa) - 4
Belleville (Althoff) - 4
Chicago (Brother Rice) - 4
Burbank (St. Laurence) - 4
What rules differences do Routt and MC have? Why would Routt and MC be in the same class? What do you think youre showing with the semi-final appearance, Im not sure I understand.
Did you see my private 16 team playoff class? Routt wasnt in it. Which teams were playing by different rules and which couldnt compete?
Lets just screw it and blow the whole thing up and make several different playoffs based on fairness.
Farm school state title
South of 80 Private school state title
If you have a private school within 30 miles state title
If you have a crappy weight room state title
If your coach played in the NFL state title
If you've never won a state title title
Programs with an all-time record below .500% state title
There it's now fair for everyone and no one can complain about things not being fair any longer.
Farm school state title
South of 80 Private school state title
If you have a private school within 30 miles state title
If you have a crappy weight room state title
If your coach played in the NFL state title
If you've never won a state title title
Programs with an all-time record below .500% state title
There it's now fair for everyone and no one can complain about things not being fair any longer.
E St. Louis might as well be classified as a private. With Lincoln and Assumption long closed the Flyers have the whole damn area to recruit from!
The economic failings have pushed people out of the small rural areas into the larger urban area towns so Lena may not continue to be dominate say in 5-10 years without some economic $$$ flow such as manufacturing, which is a very, very long shot in Illinois. Wilmington will be safe from mass exodus as will as Byron so those two schools will continue to rule the roost!~ With the ridiculous addition of 2/3 win teams into the playoffs there's no reason to have less than 8 classes especially with the future addition of a couple private class playoffs on the near horizon!
If football were split into public and private divisions, would public and private schools ever play each other in non-con games? If so, would those games count towards playoff classification and seeding? I can just hear the 2-7 public schools whining now about how they would have qualified if they hadn't lost that non-con game against a private school or how their 8-1 public school should have been seeded higher were it not for that non-con loss against a private school. For playoff qualifying and seeding, perhaps the public school division ought to assign a multiplier to their wins against the big bad private schools! lol
In all seriousness, if football were split into public and private divisions, it would ultimately become the precedence to justify splitting in other sports. It would create a domino effect.
Why? Because the public school beast is a whining beast. It's in their nature. And it's in the IHSA's nature to respond to whiners. It's no different from babies learning to cry to get what they want from their parents. The IHSA has conditioned its public school members to whine.
Can you already hear the continued public school whining if football were split into public and private divisions?
They would whine that it was just football and not basketball, soccer, golf, swimming, etc. That's not fair!
Do you know who would be the biggest whiners? Public school parents whose kids play sports other than football would whine the loudest of all. Why does that Jones kid down the street get to play for a public school football state title when my Janey doesn't have that opportunity in soccer? Trust me; those parents would turn whining into an art form.
Just get it over with and give me the NIPL!
In all seriousness, if football were split into public and private divisions, it would ultimately become the precedence to justify splitting in other sports. It would create a domino effect.
Why? Because the public school beast is a whining beast. It's in their nature. And it's in the IHSA's nature to respond to whiners. It's no different from babies learning to cry to get what they want from their parents. The IHSA has conditioned its public school members to whine.
Can you already hear the continued public school whining if football were split into public and private divisions?
They would whine that it was just football and not basketball, soccer, golf, swimming, etc. That's not fair!
Do you know who would be the biggest whiners? Public school parents whose kids play sports other than football would whine the loudest of all. Why does that Jones kid down the street get to play for a public school football state title when my Janey doesn't have that opportunity in soccer? Trust me; those parents would turn whining into an art form.
Just get it over with and give me the NIPL!
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Your last point is big one. High school Football is really a dominated by the middle class. Which is why those areas you named are doing well in FB now.
Im slowly coming around to split playoffs.
6 public, 2 non-boundary
I think you'd have to do 16 team brackets for the non-boundary schools just due to the lack of schools.
6 public, 2 non-boundary
I think you'd have to do 16 team brackets for the non-boundary schools just due to the lack of schools.
Interested to see what happens with the state if the Chicago Public League wins 1A & 2A in hoops with the CCL/ESCC potentially winning 3A & 4A.
It’s amazing how things have changed. Public schools used to dominate 7A/8A football and 3A/4A basketball. York narrowly beat Ignatius in basketball. Otherwise, it would have been 4 private schools in the 4A final four.
Im not too worried about the 3A and 4A thing quite yet. Public league is going through some growing pains and it wasnt a strong year for suburban publics. If this becomes the norm for publics/Public league then we can discuss later.
I want split playoffs also, but not under the auspices of the IHSA.
What is the true percentage of non-boundary schools playing football compared to publics competing in the sport? Often reading the "6 public, 2 non-boundary" words, it can be an oversight to favor awarding 1/4 of the state championship trophies to a school segment number that may barely make up even 1/2 of 1/4. On top of that, potentially going through an extra round of games in the public split may not be equitable.