What has changed in the last several games
- Thread starter stpaulcat
- Start date
Is it excellent defense or do we just have Indiana’s number and got to play Oregon and Penn State in there while losing to a poor MN team and a good Purdue team? IU shot a solid percentage today but we generated a possession advantage by holding firm in rebounding and turning the ball over extremely little while also shooting well ourselves.
Mix of playing the right teams and a young team under a really good coach. Young teams under good coaches tend to get better as the season goes on.
Defense was exceptional tonight.
Neither PSU nor Indiana are good outside shooting teams. We defend the interior well when we don't get spaced out defending the 3. Purdue will be different.
They finally really started getting it together. And now some of our better defenders such as Mullins are seeing more court time. Plus while Indiana is taller than us, they really don't have the traditional BIG so we were not getting killed
I think he is just soaking up some of the Page minutes because of his defensive prowess, though was nice to see him make a couple triples the other day.
I have come around to @ThatadultfromHolland ’s viewpoint on role overlap. It isn’t that Mullins or Green aren’t working hard, but Clayton has emerged as our floor spacing wing who also defends well. I am a huge proponent of all three of these guys, but even I had no idea Clayton would be this critical to the team. West is breaking out but it is Clayton making open threes that is getting Martinelli back to his spots where he can dominate again.
Absolutely relishing getting more Nicky Buckets and I want it to continue into the weekend now. For the first time that horizon is within reach this year.
I said nearer to the beginning of the year when everyone was down on him that people would have a completely different view of him if a couple of the threes went down. He has always been valuable because he does so many different things, He got designated as a captain for a reason,. Couple of threes drop and now people start realizing how important a piece he is
They don't really have the big centers either so it is not so much of a mismatch when we go small
This team has been playing well for a while now. They won three straight and then lost heartbreakers to Purdue and at Minnesota before winning these two tournament games. And, don't forget, they were leading 29-2 Michigan by 16 points in the second half before the Wolverines went on a ridiculous run in the final ten minutes. It's just a shame they lost so many close games in December and January,
I think it is a product of several things...
First, we appear to be communicating the switches much better. Earlier in the year, guys were messing up the switches all the time, leading to easy buckets for the opponent.
Second, it looks like some guys have really made the decision to take some pride in their one-on-one on ball defense. One player that comes to mind is Jayden Reid. He used to get abused on the court (and on these boards), but I feel like his intensity when guarding the ball handler has gone to another level in the way he moves his feet and tries to be disruptive.
Third, the level of competition certainly plays a factor. We've played some more mediocre teams lately aside from Purdue, though we played them well on the defensive end for at least a half.
Fourth, we've tightened up the rotation. I think it has allowed those guys on the floor to get more used to playing team defense together instead of new lineups out there every few minutes.
First, we appear to be communicating the switches much better. Earlier in the year, guys were messing up the switches all the time, leading to easy buckets for the opponent.
Second, it looks like some guys have really made the decision to take some pride in their one-on-one on ball defense. One player that comes to mind is Jayden Reid. He used to get abused on the court (and on these boards), but I feel like his intensity when guarding the ball handler has gone to another level in the way he moves his feet and tries to be disruptive.
Third, the level of competition certainly plays a factor. We've played some more mediocre teams lately aside from Purdue, though we played them well on the defensive end for at least a half.
Fourth, we've tightened up the rotation. I think it has allowed those guys on the floor to get more used to playing team defense together instead of new lineups out there every few minutes.
I said it in the game thread, but NU has made some really good halftime adjustments on the defensive end. They’ve also done a nice job of refocusing the offense around Martinelli after the break. There are a lot of little tweaks this staff makes that really frustrate opponents, and unless you’re a veteran team and/or have a really good coach on the sideline, it’s tough to process and counter that stuff in the middle of a half.
They’ll change how they defend ball screens, vary when and where the doubles come from, and even who the help is coming off of depending on the opponent. Some of that is just new guys still figuring out positioning/development, but a lot of it is clearly coaching. West, Kropp, and Singleton in particular should take a real jump defensively once they get more time in the weight room and an offseason in the system. Their positioning has improved a lot over the course of the season.
Despite the tough record, this team has played in a lot of tight games and is very young. Future is bright for NU. With the right development they should be better next year despite losing the best offensive player I’ve seen at NU.
They’ll change how they defend ball screens, vary when and where the doubles come from, and even who the help is coming off of depending on the opponent. Some of that is just new guys still figuring out positioning/development, but a lot of it is clearly coaching. West, Kropp, and Singleton in particular should take a real jump defensively once they get more time in the weight room and an offseason in the system. Their positioning has improved a lot over the course of the season.
Despite the tough record, this team has played in a lot of tight games and is very young. Future is bright for NU. With the right development they should be better next year despite losing the best offensive player I’ve seen at NU.
Wet blanket checking in...
So - question for you all. I remember griping (shocker!!) about how they were struggling and people saying things like "defense takes time". My response was something like, how much time? Will the season be ruined by the time they figure it out?
So, we are all a bit giddy right now, but perhaps we can agree that winning FOUR more games in 4 days against some serious opponents is a tall order. But let's say they win 2 more, with the usual dependency on #2. Is the season a success? Losing season, no postseason, next year without a top 5(?) player in program history. What's the outlook?
I like Collins a lot, but in the days of portal/NIL, with NUs resources, it's fair to expect winning seasons/postseason fairly regularly. The young guys are an interesting and exciting mix, but I'm concerned it won't be enough next year without Nick
So - question for you all. I remember griping (shocker!!) about how they were struggling and people saying things like "defense takes time". My response was something like, how much time? Will the season be ruined by the time they figure it out?
So, we are all a bit giddy right now, but perhaps we can agree that winning FOUR more games in 4 days against some serious opponents is a tall order. But let's say they win 2 more, with the usual dependency on #2. Is the season a success? Losing season, no postseason, next year without a top 5(?) player in program history. What's the outlook?
I like Collins a lot, but in the days of portal/NIL, with NUs resources, it's fair to expect winning seasons/postseason fairly regularly. The young guys are an interesting and exciting mix, but I'm concerned it won't be enough next year without Nick
Unless academic restrictions are loosened even further and NIL funding jumps to something on par with the upper tier of the Big Ten, it isn’t really a fair expectation. Even if NU did both of those things, it still lacks the basketball history that almost every other Big Ten program has. It also has one of the smaller fan bases in the league and relatively limited institutional support compared to the heavyweights.
At NU’s peak, the realistic expectation is probably two or three tournament teams in a run, with the occasional really good tournament team if things break right and the roster stays healthy. Then you’ll have a rebuilding year or two where the goal is competitiveness and flashes of what the next group could become.
I’d argue that if the season ended today, it landed about where it realistically should have. If NU finds a way to win two more games, that’s a real success. If they flopped against PSU, or didn’t have the end of season winning stretch, it probably tilts toward disappointment.
Yeah I agree mostly. I still though get frustrated at our rotations being sloppy too often I feel. And early in the game last night we had some lazy / not committed or obviously telegraphed double teams. Kropp was guilty a couple times - when you double you have to go at it with intensity and also try to start your move when the guy isn’t looking at you. We did a much better job in the 2H. Martinelli is actually a sneaky good doubler I think.
It also helps that, as someone else said above, it doesn’t seem like Indiana has a whole lot of great shooters this year. I haven’t watched them much outside of our games but it seemed like there was a couple of guys we didn’t mind leaving alone and that obviously helps with rotations from the double teams.
Defensive takes aren’t fully accurate in this thread. IU is also a 3 point shooting team. They live and die by the 3. 4th most 3 point attempts per game in the big ten. Switches and low man positioning has improved a ton. As well as some individual better on ball positioning. Not so much an effort as a lot of new people and not just learning the system but learning to play with each other. Also learning to defend at a big ten level.
Maryland and Oregon are poor shooting teams who turn the ball over a lot, while Minnesota, Penn State and IU are all poor offensive rebounding teams, and Purdue is one of the worst teams in the country at getting to the FT line.
We are 2-15 against P6 teams that shoot 33% or better from 3. Guess who the two wins were against? We are 2-17 against teams who are top-90 in offensive efficiency. Guess who the two wins were against?
Since Valentine's day, we have been the best of the non-tourney teams in the conference, but all five wins have come against teams playing worse than us. I don't expect us to win today, but Purdue is vulnerable - their defense is just 230th in the country over the same timespan because they don't cause turnovers and they foul a ton. They are a great rebounding team, but they are allowing an eFG% of 62.5%, so rebounding doesn't matter so much when all the shots are going in. It also helps us that they like to play slow.
Oh, btw, Jordan Clayton is shooting 63.6% from 3 since January 24th.
We are 2-15 against P6 teams that shoot 33% or better from 3. Guess who the two wins were against? We are 2-17 against teams who are top-90 in offensive efficiency. Guess who the two wins were against?
Since Valentine's day, we have been the best of the non-tourney teams in the conference, but all five wins have come against teams playing worse than us. I don't expect us to win today, but Purdue is vulnerable - their defense is just 230th in the country over the same timespan because they don't cause turnovers and they foul a ton. They are a great rebounding team, but they are allowing an eFG% of 62.5%, so rebounding doesn't matter so much when all the shots are going in. It also helps us that they like to play slow.
Oh, btw, Jordan Clayton is shooting 63.6% from 3 since January 24th.
I don't disagree with you on the improvement, but I just checked the stats and IU is 34.7% from 3 on the year and 34.5% in conference play. That is 11th and 10th out of 18 teams in the conference. They may shoot a lot of them, but I don't think we can call them a good 3 point shooting team. I agree our defensive rotations have improved but they are still far from the level a few years back the first year we had Lowery - which I don't think is due to coaching I think is due to young players / players learning / players just not being as good defensively as some we had on that team.
Fwiw, Purdue is 1st in the B1G at 38.5% for the year overall and 37.7% in conference play from 3 pt. Will be a tough one tonight, especially with 3rd game in 3 days. But who knows - we played right with them for 40 minutes last time.
Yes, they shoot the 3. They just aren't very good at it. They rank 143 nationally in 3 point percentage. Of course, we are 242.
Purdue is at 13.
That fourth point is crucial - this team started on the upswing when Collins moved away from the start of the season where he said, "we'll go with who is hot." For a guy whose been coaching 13 years in the B1G, he's got his tendencies - and perhaps they're driven by necessity because he hasn't always been blessed with deep skilled rosters (after all, this board has spent precious terabytes arguing whether or not Blake Smith should get a scholarship). However, if they're going to execute a man defense that includes hard hedges, switching and variable trapping - the most precious commodity is cohesion.
They're playing their best ball now because it's been 3 guard rotation - West/Reid/Clayton; platoon at the 3 heavy on the Gelo with a side of Mullins; frontcourt mix of Tre, Nick, Tyler (and AP when available).
If there are injuries, then you go to Green, Gill or (gasp) KJ. But there were none. Also, I intuit Collins preferred playing his frosh because he anticipates they've got the higher ceiling and wants to retain them more.
In Jake West's postgame panel with Revsine, Weber and Davis he talked about how they worked on defense all summer. I don't doubt that's true, but it just affirms how long it takes for those principles to manifest - it's one thing to be able to do it, it's another thing to be able to do it without thinking, it's another thing to do it consistently under duress against high competition.
I don't regret being optimistic at the start of this season when we added 8 guys who shown a higher likelihood of "being able to do it"; however, moving forward, I need to be more skeptical about the latter 2 - the ability to execute it so that it's second nature, and then consistently executing against arguably the best competition.
One of the things that has changed is the freshmen have gained confidence and have been playing like they belong on the court, especially West. Early in the season, he alternated between playing out of control and playing timid. That's been gone for several games now, and that makes a huge difference for the entire team. He and Reid have also jelled pretty well in running tandem.
Also, we're seeing more success shooting the three, and not just Clayton although Yay Clayton! giving off shades of Taphorn off the bench. Triple teaming Nick hasn't worked out recently because the team is making opponents pay for it.
The freshmen and sophs have gotten a lot of court time, and consequently getting much better at Lowery's defense, which we all know requires five guys doing it right to really work. As already mentioned, there are far fewer absolutely blown assignments and switches. We aren't seeing two wide open shooters like we were in December and even January.
I'd love to win tonight. We have the talent and the drive to beat Purdue. The question is do we have the legs for the 40 minute grind. Monday everyone except Nick and Reid played 25ish minutes. Last night most of the starters played at least 33.
I'd have liked to have won a few more games this season, but for a rebuild I'm not surprised and what I think matters most after this week will be who is on the team come May or June. We have a tournament core in West, Singleton, and Kropp assuming they continue developing a pace. If we keep Page, Reid, and Angelo even better. I don't have any reads on the bench guys - Gill and Bennerman (is he a redshirt? That'd be awesome). If we return these guys, this will have been a successful year in my eyes.
I really want a Cats victory over Purdue tonight.
Also, we're seeing more success shooting the three, and not just Clayton although Yay Clayton! giving off shades of Taphorn off the bench. Triple teaming Nick hasn't worked out recently because the team is making opponents pay for it.
The freshmen and sophs have gotten a lot of court time, and consequently getting much better at Lowery's defense, which we all know requires five guys doing it right to really work. As already mentioned, there are far fewer absolutely blown assignments and switches. We aren't seeing two wide open shooters like we were in December and even January.
I'd love to win tonight. We have the talent and the drive to beat Purdue. The question is do we have the legs for the 40 minute grind. Monday everyone except Nick and Reid played 25ish minutes. Last night most of the starters played at least 33.
I'd have liked to have won a few more games this season, but for a rebuild I'm not surprised and what I think matters most after this week will be who is on the team come May or June. We have a tournament core in West, Singleton, and Kropp assuming they continue developing a pace. If we keep Page, Reid, and Angelo even better. I don't have any reads on the bench guys - Gill and Bennerman (is he a redshirt? That'd be awesome). If we return these guys, this will have been a successful year in my eyes.
I really want a Cats victory over Purdue tonight.
I really think this conversation is pretty easy: Jake West is good now, so we actually have a pretty good point guard and good second player, plus we're playing weaker competition. That's like 90% of it. Add in that rotation guys who were massive duds like Green aren't playing at all and Clayton has emerged as a legit plus value rotation option and that's your improvement... but again, mostly we are also just playing worse teams. As Cappy said, we have smoked bad teams all year, but the brutal Big Ten has been above our pay grade all year long. We have a couple players who are distinctly mid major type guys, IMO, but we don't need to turn this into a Jayden Reid fight...
Agree. I did not appreciate (or maybe just donned rose-color glasses) the learning curve to defend in the B1G. The physical challenges alone are enough (anyone notice how many body shots Tre takes each game? He gets beat on like a drum), but learning to space and switch at this level takes a lot of time. We have really improved (especially Kropp). Kids like Ghai and Bennerman are going to get a real education when they start playing.
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Our frosh are growing up, especially on the defensive end. Tre is asserting himself on the boards, though still prone to fouls. West has been the frosh breakthrough star I hoped for before the season - he flashed some sneaky athleticism and hops in his high school tapes, showed a good outside touch, and won Mr. Basketball. Watching him play, he has more length than expected - despite being 6-3, his arms are long and he knows how to extend his wingspan when finishing at the rim. But his biggest asset is his mental toughness despite his smiling baby face, the kid's an assassin. Collins mentioned his toughness several times in earlier interviews. Meanwhile, Kropp just grinds and does the dirty work to contribute when he can. We'll see how our frosh fab five will develop in the future, with maybe the most talented one (Bennerman) not even on display yet.
I want to fight about Jayden Reid.
Not really.
I am still mixed about him but I think he has a role here. His best games have been against top shelf competition: Michigan (20 pts on 16 shots), Illinois (28 on 22), Purdue (16 on 12), Minny (Ok, but he got 19 on 17) and UVA (25 on 29). He also posted a 4.9/1.8 AST/TO ratio this season, which is quite good. He's a liability on defense, but he has an offensive skill set we will not find in any other player.
Even with the anticipated loss tonight, this season has been a success.
He’s a sixth man type. Instant offense and if he is cold, don’t play him. Very streaky.
He's bad
This season was not a success, but it's only been a mild disappointment. Like, very very mild, we started right around 60th and we're currently sitting 63 in Net and 57 in Net. So... honestly all together it's like scratch.
Also, Reid is no sixth man, he's an 8th man, pure 10 minute backup point guard or hot hand guy at best. Should not be a major rotation contributor in the Big Ten. He's a mid major player.
You are wrong about Reid. It took him time to change his game to fit the system and the league. He will be much better next season running alongside West. I would argue that the late season improvement is more a part of Colin’s returning to what made his prior teams successful than anything else. This year was always going to be a rebuild. Next year will be similar but at least we know on paper who 4 of the five starters will be absent anyone hitting the portal. I would have pencilled in Hodge as the fifth before his knee injury but now expect that player to come from the portal.
Its not a mild disappointment. Its about what was expected. Anyone that was reasonable didnt expect a B1G contender or even a bubble team. We know we have three Frosh that can contribute. Two of them will be 4 year starters. We don’t know what we have in the redshirt frosh and with Fish. However, it has the makings of the best class in recent memory. Need a shooter and a lunch pail rebounder in the portal.
I think it was a wash.
The season Martinelli had defied expectations.
I expected a little more from Tre, but not terribly disappointed. I thought Bennerman would be a contributor, so that was a mild disappointment. West exceeded expectations.
The evaluation of the transfers depended on the day. Some games they were big disappointments. Some days the exceeded expectations. Overall, a modest disappointment.
Nothing from KJ was a huge disappointment since I had him penciled in as our second most important player.
Clayton started out disappointing, but clearly exceeded expectations by the end.
Gelo was pretty much a wash. Wasn't sure what to expect.
The season Martinelli had defied expectations.
I expected a little more from Tre, but not terribly disappointed. I thought Bennerman would be a contributor, so that was a mild disappointment. West exceeded expectations.
The evaluation of the transfers depended on the day. Some games they were big disappointments. Some days the exceeded expectations. Overall, a modest disappointment.
Nothing from KJ was a huge disappointment since I had him penciled in as our second most important player.
Clayton started out disappointing, but clearly exceeded expectations by the end.
Gelo was pretty much a wash. Wasn't sure what to expect.
You sue the NCAA with an army of lawyers and offer Nick $1M in NIL
We need a star shooting guard. Our guard play has been very poor all year plus we need to replace a **** ton of scoring.