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Bam Adebayo just scored 81 points for the Heat

85Bears

85Bears

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Aug 31, 2019
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90s was watered down expansion, peak nba is 1980s with 23 teams. 86 Celtics 50-1 at home was a passing clinic every game. Bird would avg 40+/10/10 if he wanted to today.

college game has degenerated terribly. They’ve just about ruined the sport.
 
HailStout

HailStout

Heisman
Jan 4, 2020
5,402
15,199
113
85Bears said:
90s was watered down expansion, peak nba is 1980s with 23 teams. 86 Celtics 50-1 at home was a passing clinic every game. Bird would avg 40+/10/10 if he wanted to today.

college game has degenerated terribly. They’ve just about ruined the sport.
Click to expand...
*40-1

ETA: 40-1 regular season. 50-1 through the playoffs. My bad
 
M

msugolf

Junior
Dec 29, 2008
827
388
63
NBA is a s**t product. Completely unwatchable for any person with normal testosterone levels.
 
POTUS

POTUS

Heisman
Sep 29, 2022
3,953
10,406
113
Teams from the 90’s would get boat raced today. They would have to learn to defend about 20-25% more of the court. Over time they could adjust but the amount of spacing now would blow their minds. Jokic is better than Bird and he doesn’t average 40-10-10 so I doubt Bird could. People see what they want to see. The defense is light years better now.
 
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onewoof

onewoof

Heisman
Mar 4, 2008
15,212
13,409
113
POTUS said:
People see what they want to see. The defense is light years better now.
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No, the perimeter shooting is better on average and MANY more 3 point shots are taken because math. Therefore many more missed shots.

So you have a game where you have to cover inside and outside and you spread a team out.

You also cannot even get close to contact, so the rules of fouls on shots have changed. Allowing shooters even more space.

Flying by a shooter putting a hand in the air isn't defense. Maybe a nice attempt at distraction. I still call it target practice. Missing 2 out of 3 shots isn't an enjoyable game to watch.

Number of 3 point shots per year
1773312155246.png

2 out of 3 of these shots are missed. Often it's 3 out of 4 missed. What is that. It's junk to watch.
 
HailStout

HailStout

Heisman
Jan 4, 2020
5,402
15,199
113
onewoof said:
No, the perimeter shooting is better on average and MANY more 3 point shots are taken because math. Therefore many more missed shots.

So you have a game where you have to cover inside and outside and you spread a team out.

You also cannot even get close to contact, so the rules of fouls on shots have changed. Allowing shooters even more space.

Flying by a shooter putting a hand in the air isn't defense. Maybe a nice attempt at distraction. I still call it target practice. Missing 2 out of 3 shots isn't an enjoyable game to watch.

Number of 3 point shots per year
View attachment 1215705

2 out of 3 of these shots are missed. Often it's 3 out of 4 missed. What is that. It's junk to watch.
Click to expand...
1773314099752.png

1773314227719.png
 
M

msugolf

Junior
Dec 29, 2008
827
388
63
POTUS said:
Teams from the 90’s would get boat raced today. They would have to learn to defend about 20-25% more of the court. Over time they could adjust but the amount of spacing now would blow their minds. Jokic is better than Bird and he doesn’t average 40-10-10 so I doubt Bird could. People see what they want to see. The defense is light years better now.
Click to expand...
Good grief what a terrible take. Let me guess, you’re a late millennial or Generation Z product?
 
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DesotoCountyDawg

DesotoCountyDawg

Heisman
Nov 16, 2005
27,725
20,884
113
msugolf said:
Good grief what a terrible take. Let me guess, you’re a late millennial or Generation Z product?
Click to expand...
The Office Boomer GIF by MOODMAN
 
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HailStout

HailStout

Heisman
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5,402
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Listen. I have been all in on the NBA since the 80’s. Had Larry bird posters all over my wall. Watched “Larry bird: a basketball legend” on VHS until the tape broke. Hated Jordan because he stole the crown. Watched it through the dark days after Jordan left. I dare you guys to watch the Heat / Knicks games from that era and say they shouldn’t have changed the rules. I LOVE the NBA. Do I miss the personalities of the 80’s? Of course. Do I miss team loyalty? Yes. In every sport. Do I miss things like Kevin McHale taking Kurt Rambiss’s head off when he is trying to make a layup? Hell yeah. But saying the actual game today isn’t better played and that the players aren’t exponentially better than they were??? That’s insanity. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Middle age and older white dudes isn’t exactly the market they are aiming for. I just don’t understand the hate for it.
 
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HailStout

HailStout

Heisman
Jan 4, 2020
5,402
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onewoof said:
what you are missing here is that all the mid range shots have been removed, it is layups or 3 pointers, due to analytics the game is now played this way

So, the blended average of layups being almost 100% and the 3 point average being 36%....

There is a MASSIVE incerase in # of 3 point attempts per game, more than double
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No, I’m very aware
 
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mstateglfr

mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
16,077
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85Bears said:
lol they don’t even attempt to play defense. You get five steps now. Dumbed down entertainment. They must be better cuz they score more points*. It’s garbage
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The 5 steps complaint is both misunderstood and legitimate.
- Nobody actually gets 5 steps and that should be called every time.
- The allowed 'collect' step makes it seem worse than it is. The collect step is legal, even if you dislike it.

I dislike the collect step. I also dislike the ability to come to a complete stop and then use the step.
I would prefer that there be no 'free' collect step and I would prefer that steps only be allowed if they are continuous from the dribble.
Additionally, I would prefer that no step be allowed after the ball has been gathered and both feet are on the court(so no backwards jump from a still position).

But based on the actual rules, what the players do right now is largely allowed. They have creatively found ways to play within the rules. That should be celebrated- the constant improvement in creative play, but its instead frequently cried about by 'purists'.
 
mstateglfr

mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
16,077
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onewoof said:
No, the perimeter shooting is better on average and MANY more 3 point shots are taken because math. Therefore many more missed shots.

So you have a game where you have to cover inside and outside and you spread a team out.

You also cannot even get close to contact, so the rules of fouls on shots have changed. Allowing shooters even more space.

Flying by a shooter putting a hand in the air isn't defense. Maybe a nice attempt at distraction. I still call it target practice. Missing 2 out of 3 shots isn't an enjoyable game to watch.

Number of 3 point shots per year
View attachment 1215705

2 out of 3 of these shots are missed. Often it's 3 out of 4 missed. What is that. It's junk to watch.
Click to expand...

3pt shooting was below 30% in the NBA in the 80s until the 86-87 season. It closed out the 80s with the highest league average of 33.1% from deep.
3pt shooting is 35.8% this season, 36% last season, 36.6% the season before, and 36.1% the season before that.

3pt SHOOTING IS BETTER NOW THAN IT WAS IN THE 80s.

Effective FG%, which accounts for 2pt and 3pt shooting, was just under 50% through the 80s.
Effective FG% this decade is 53-54% every year, and almost 55% for a year.

Effective FG% IS BETTER NOW THAN IT WAS IN THE 80s.
 
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DesotoCountyDawg

DesotoCountyDawg

Heisman
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27,725
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The mid range is gone because of floor spacing and deeper shots. Guards drive and kick or take it to the rim. The non shooting big men are staying in the paint for their shots and everyone else has the ability to shoot from 3.
 
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HailStout

HailStout

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If you guys haven’t watched Wemby play a game yet, watch him. You want to talk about a freak of nature, good lord. He is 7’2 and I watched him hit 7 3’s the other night. He’s incredible
 
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DesotoCountyDawg

DesotoCountyDawg

Heisman
Nov 16, 2005
27,725
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HailStout said:
If you guys haven’t watched Wemby play a game yet, watch him. You want to talk about a freak of nature, good lord. He is 7’2 and I watched him hit 7 3’s the other night. He’s incredible
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The Spurs are about to be unstoppable and they’re building that team around his skill set.
 
HailStout

HailStout

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DesotoCountyDawg said:
The Spurs are about to be unstoppable and they’re building that team around his skill set.
Click to expand...
Yep. After Watching them against the Celtics the other night you can tell that Wemby is nowhere near his ceiling yet. And that is horrifying. That whole team is young and getting better day by day. Thank god they are in the Western Conference.
 
POTUS

POTUS

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What people who love "old school" basketball over today's game fail to realize is that it's not really an indictment of the previous era's players as it is the playing style. The game became more efficient. If Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson had the information we have now, they would have played the way the game is played now because they liked to win.

You can make all the generational jabs you want, but the team that plays for lay-ups, threes and free throws will beat the team that plays "the old school way" and settles for mid-range jumpers every time. The team that can threaten from deep with all five positions will beat the team that has multiple bigs with zero outside game every time. It has more to do with probability and geometry than it does talent.
 
85Bears

85Bears

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HailStout said:
Listen. I have been all in on the NBA since the 80’s. Had Larry bird posters all over my wall. Watched “Larry bird: a basketball legend” on VHS until the tape broke. Hated Jordan because he stole the crown. Watched it through the dark days after Jordan left. I dare you guys to watch the Heat / Knicks games from that era and say they shouldn’t have changed the rules. I LOVE the NBA. Do I miss the personalities of the 80’s? Of course. Do I miss team loyalty? Yes. In every sport. Do I miss things like Kevin McHale taking Kurt Rambiss’s head off when he is trying to make a layup? Hell yeah. But saying the actual game today isn’t better played and that the players aren’t exponentially better than they were??? That’s insanity. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Middle age and older white dudes isn’t exactly the market they are aiming for. I just don’t understand the hate for it.
Click to expand...
No the players today aren’t exponentially better than they were in the 80s. And the game isn’t better played today. Fundamentals are grossly neglected and lacking. Laziness and lack of effort are glaring. Team play is gone and iso ball reigns.
 
POTUS

POTUS

Heisman
Sep 29, 2022
3,953
10,406
113
85Bears said:
Team play is gone and iso ball reigns.
Click to expand...
You do not watch the NBA. You could just admit it. But this statement could only be made by someone who doesn't watch. ISO is a part, but a small part of winning team's offense and typically it's the final choice after some other action has failed (because of good defense). If you said, pick and roll, I'd believe you watched from time to time. But the Warriors dynasty was built on constant ball movement and moving without the ball.
 
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curseddawgs

curseddawgs

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Jun 16, 2021
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85Bears said:
No the players today aren’t exponentially better than they were in the 80s. And the game isn’t better played today. Fundamentals are grossly neglected and lacking. Laziness and lack of effort are glaring. Team play is gone and iso ball reigns.
Click to expand...
Please stick to your awful football takes it’s clear you don’t understand basketball
 
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DesotoCountyDawg

DesotoCountyDawg

Heisman
Nov 16, 2005
27,725
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85Bears said:
No the players today aren’t exponentially better than they were in the 80s. And the game isn’t better played today. Fundamentals are grossly neglected and lacking. Laziness and lack of effort are glaring. Team play is gone and iso ball reigns.
Click to expand...
If you want to watch ISO ball going watch the dead ball era.

What fundamentals are grossly neglected? Don’t just blanket it. Tell me what’s lacking.

It’s painfully clear you have no clue what you’re talking about.
 
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onewoof

onewoof

Heisman
Mar 4, 2008
15,212
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Bird is right and wrong. Atheletes are better, clearly. Much more time and better training than years ago. In better shape as well.

He is an ambassador for the game so he has to say the game is great and thriving. Get him to comment off the record about the things the he does not like about today's game and you will hear a much different conversation.
 
85Bears

85Bears

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Lol

in comparison to the 80s , today’s game is awful. That’s not really debatable unless you are a fanboy who doesn’t know any better.
 
HailStout

HailStout

Heisman
Jan 4, 2020
5,402
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85Bears said:
No the players today aren’t exponentially better than they were in the 80s. And the game isn’t better played today. Fundamentals are grossly neglected and lacking. Laziness and lack of effort are glaring. Team play is gone and iso ball reigns.
Click to expand...
1773331817864.jpeg
 
mstateglfr

mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
16,077
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85Bears said:
No the players today aren’t exponentially better than they were in the 80s. And the game isn’t better played today. Fundamentals are grossly neglected and lacking. Laziness and lack of effort are glaring. Team play is gone and iso ball reigns.
Click to expand...
What fundamentals are 'grossly neglected and lacking' in the NBA?
A modern NBA player can defend multiple positions, shoot, dribble, and finish at the rim.

Be specific on what is lacking, please.
 
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