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A stupid thread: Who would be best to take over for TnT?

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WS_Cop

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Yes yes I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but TnT will retire within this decade most likely. Who do you think would be best to take over?

My picks:
HC - Brent Metcalf
AC1 - Spencer Lee
AC2 - Tony Ramos
AC3 - Michael Kemerer

Honorable mentions: Sorenson, Desanto, McDonough, St. John, maybe some outsiders like Hidlay, Nolf, or even Coleman Scott.
 
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maxpain

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WS_Cop said:
Yes yes I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but TnT will retire within this decade most likely. Who do you think would be best to take over?

My picks:
HC - Brent Metcalf
AC1 - Spencer Lee
AC2 - Tony Ramos
AC3 - Michael Kemerer

Honorable mentions: Sorenson, Desanto, McDonough, St. John, maybe some outsiders like Hidlay, Nolf, or even Coleman Scott.
Click to expand...
Sheesh terrible list lol
 
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bman546

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Burroughs..

Gable as an assistant in 1973-then head coach in 1977, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
John Smith at Okie State, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
Cael Sanderson, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
David Taylor, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..

See the pattern? You won't get a better coach than Tom and Terry unless you decide it is time for a change, but only if you can get Burroughs.. (and not No Dake).

In today's sport, it is more about getting the top recruits..(and then developing them).. When the phone rings, Jordan Burroughs will have the wow factor for a recruit..
 
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WS_Cop

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UndercoverHawk said:
Delete this thread my guy. Not for the repetition, but for the stupidity of the
bman546 said:
Burroughs..

Gable as an assistant in 1973-then head coach in 1977, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
John Smith at Okie State, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
Cael Sanderson, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
David Taylor, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..

See the pattern? You won't get a better coach than Tom and Terry unless you decide it is time for a change, but only if you can get Burroughs.. (and not No Dake).

In today's sport, it is more about getting the top recruits..(and then developing them).. When the phone rings, Jordan Burroughs will have the wow factor for a recruit..
Click to expand...
I can see that. However, I guess I just haven’t seen what Burroughs can do yet considering he’s not coaching. With Metcalf we see how Iowa state has trended upwards. Lee is a hometown talent. Ramos has had an upward trend at chapel hill. Kemerer was one we should’ve never let go of. Tom didn’t take over at iowa until a decade after his gold medal.
you are probably right though. I’ve been drinking lol.
Click to expand...
 
W

WEH8ST8HAWK

Senior
Jan 31, 2004
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bman546 said:
Burroughs..

Gable as an assistant in 1973-then head coach in 1977, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
John Smith at Okie State, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
Cael Sanderson, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
David Taylor, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..

See the pattern? You won't get a better coach than Tom and Terry unless you decide it is time for a change, but only if you can get Burroughs.. (and not No Dake).

In today's sport, it is more about getting the top recruits..(and then developing them).. When the phone rings, Jordan Burroughs will have the wow factor for a recruit..
Click to expand...
Burroughs if he and his family are all in. If not, Metcalf. Brent would do amazing things in Iowa City. Kemerer as an assistant with Spencer Lee who can still train. Bring in a young stud heavyweight coach and they are set. Hire a big name for the HWC and get things rolling.
 
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Sett1997

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bman546 said:
Burroughs..

Gable as an assistant in 1973-then head coach in 1977, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
John Smith at Okie State, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
Cael Sanderson, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
David Taylor, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..

See the pattern? You won't get a better coach than Tom and Terry unless you decide it is time for a change, but only if you can get Burroughs.. (and not No Dake).

In today's sport, it is more about getting the top recruits..(and then developing them).. When the phone rings, Jordan Burroughs will have the wow factor for a recruit..
Click to expand...
Spot on.
 
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TheREALSpooner

TheREALSpooner

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bman546 said:
Burroughs..

Gable as an assistant in 1973-then head coach in 1977, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
John Smith at Okie State, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
Cael Sanderson, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..
David Taylor, Fresh off of Gold Medal competitive career, had that aura..

See the pattern? You won't get a better coach than Tom and Terry unless you decide it is time for a change, but only if you can get Burroughs.. (and not No Dake).

In today's sport, it is more about getting the top recruits..(and then developing them).. When the phone rings, Jordan Burroughs will have the wow factor for a recruit..
Click to expand...

I like your sentiment. Very much, actually. But pretending only like 2 guys could do better than Brands is laughable. I just refuse to accept it.
 
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Wilbur Kookmeyer

Wilbur Kookmeyer

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maxpain said:
Sheesh terrible list lol
Click to expand...
Question: why do you think Brent would be a terrible hire? Now, I am biased, and am going off of my gut here a good bit, but I think Brent is eventually going to be a fantastic HC somewhere. Why not Iowa? Another poster mentioned the "aura", and there is much to that, but there is also personality fit. I think Brent not only has the credentials to be very respected by recruits, but also he seems like a likeable person, and a good mentor.
 
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TheREALSpooner

TheREALSpooner

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Wilbur Kookmeyer said:
Question: why do you think Brent would be a terrible hire? Now, I am biased, and am going off of my gut here a good bit, but I think Brent is eventually going to be a fantastic HC somewhere. Why not Iowa? Another poster mentioned the "aura", and there is much to that, but there is also personality fit. I think Brent not only has the credentials to be very respected by recruits, but also he seems like a likeable person, and a good mentor.
Click to expand...

I think what it comes down to is whether he's proven himself at ISU. They've gotten better as a program, and was he a big part of that? Has he had the recruiting wins? Have their middleweight wrestlers developed on his watch?

It doesn't *feel* like it to me, but what do I know? He's definitely a nice guy, has good name recognition, and would be a guy the fans can unite behind (me included).
 
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maxpain

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Wilbur Kookmeyer said:
Question: why do you think Brent would be a terrible hire? Now, I am biased, and am going off of my gut here a good bit, but I think Brent is eventually going to be a fantastic HC somewhere. Why not Iowa? Another poster mentioned the "aura", and there is much to that, but there is also personality fit. I think Brent not only has the credentials to be very respected by recruits, but also he seems like a likeable person, and a good mentor.
Click to expand...

It’s not that I think Metcalf would be a terrible hire, in fact I think he will be a fine HC someday. But I don’t think he has the pop to get a job like Iowa without proving himself somewhere else as a HC first.

DT did last year but it takes a generational type guy to have that(JB/Dake are only other two as of now).

Also it has to be someone who will bring something the Brands brothers don’t. Metcalf might, but he might just be a younger version of Tom and if that’s what people think will bridge the gap to PSU then he would be a great hire. I’m just not sold on that path.
 
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backdrft76-1

backdrft76-1

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WS_Cop said:
Yes yes I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but TnT will retire within this decade most likely. Who do you think would be best to take over?

My picks:
HC - Brent Metcalf
AC1 - Spencer Lee
AC2 - Tony Ramos
AC3 - Michael Kemerer

Honorable mentions: Sorenson, Desanto, McDonough, St. John, maybe some outsiders like Hidlay, Nolf, or even Coleman Scott.
Click to expand...
You guys should steer clear of anything tainted by the Brands and their system, including cranky Lil Spence. Or else you're bound to get more of the same.

Nolf, Burroughs, Dake, Max Askren, Coleman, etc.
 
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azchief32

azchief32

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Wilbur Kookmeyer said:
Question: why do you think Brent would be a terrible hire? Now, I am biased, and am going off of my gut here a good bit, but I think Brent is eventually going to be a fantastic HC somewhere. Why not Iowa? Another poster mentioned the "aura", and there is much to that, but there is also personality fit. I think Brent not only has the credentials to be very respected by recruits, but also he seems like a likeable person, and a good mentor.
Click to expand...

I'll bite. Brent is a great Hawkeye. I'll always remember randomly seeing one of his matches brought me back to the sport. But we already had a scenario like this back in 2017 when Dresser got hired and put together his staff at ISU. Back then, Metcalf wasn't cold product...he was coming off making multiple world teams and high school kids could still remember his dominance. That plus Zadick, DSJ and their was a sh*t ton of hype. In fact, this board threw a fit so large because we wanted Metcalf to stay that it led to the donating and the Inner Circle. ISU had $$ coming in and the makings of a great staff. It was the biggest story of the 2017 offseason much like DT going to OSU; the narrative being "Spurned Brands guys join Dresser to take over state."

This should have resulted in an giant uptick in recruiting...Some big name guys plus some transfers....maybe from Va Tech since three of their coaches were coming over. But Degan was the only one that jumped over with them IIRC which to me was surprising. Carr (Nate hired as CWC coach) and Chittum have been their biggest recruits to date. They also have the HWY coming in from Cali who is a certifiable Tank. Kudos to them for thinking outside the box and hiring Villaescusa as their "Development Coordinator" which brought the Cubans in eventually.

Here are their results:

2018
NCAA Pts/Place:3/45th
AA:0
Champs:0

2019
NCAA Pts/Place:32/16th
AA:2
Champs:0

2021
NCAA Pts/Place:37.5/13th
AA:2
Champs:1 (Carr)

2022
NCAA Pts/Place:37/17th
AA: 3
Champs:0


2023
NCAA Pts/Place:47/11th
AA: 2
Champs:0


2024
NCAA Pts/Place:68.5/4th
AA:4
Champs:1(Carr)


2025
NCAA Pts/Place:18/27th
AA: 1
Champs:0

If you are keeping score, that's 1 top ten and top 5 finish...both in the same year.

This year, I think they have 2 legit shots at champs at 197, HWY plus an AA at 125,141. Plus, they finally beat Iowa so they have that going for them. However, after 2021 (gave them 4 years for a turn around), any one of these results would have y'all clamoring for the Coach to get fired except for maybe 2024. I say maybe because there was a lot of talk of getting rid of Tom in the early 2010s for similar results. Finishing 27th last year and they would have had to shut the Cesspool down.

If Tom were to be fired, I don't think anybody on staff at ISU is the answer, respectfully.
 
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WS_Cop

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TheREALSpooner said:
I think what it comes down to is whether he's proven himself at ISU. They've gotten better as a program, and was he a big part of that? Has he had the recruiting wins? Have their middleweight wrestlers developed on his watch?

It doesn't *feel* like it to me, but what do I know? He's definitely a nice guy, has good name recognition, and would be a guy the fans can unite behind (me included).
Click to expand...
I’ll say this much. I coach in SoCal. Metcalf won over 3 kids who I knew closely, who have all been solid pickups for them. The most notable two were MJ Gaitan and Daniel Herrera. Metcalf was the reason MJ flipped his commitment from CBU to ISU
 
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Hogghawk

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WS_Cop said:
I’ll say this much. I coach in SoCal. Metcalf won over 3 kids who I knew closely, who have all been solid pickups for them. The most notable two were MJ Gaitan and Daniel Herrera. Metcalf was the reason MJ flipped his commitment from CBU to ISU
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Wow if you think them type of recruits are going to narrow the gap with Penn state your in for a long journey as head coaching material
 
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UndercoverHawk

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WS_Cop said:
I’ll say this much. I coach in SoCal. Metcalf won over 3 kids who I knew closely, who have all been solid pickups for them. The most notable two were MJ Gaitan and Daniel Herrera. Metcalf was the reason MJ flipped his commitment from CBU to ISU
Click to expand...
So a grand total of 0AAs
 
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grapplefan

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azchief32 said:
If Tom were to be fired, I don't think anybody on staff at ISU is the answer, respectfully.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Not saying that KD & company aren't good by any means, maybe even very good, but If any of these guys were able to change the overall trajectory of ISU wrestling into a serious championship contender, then we'd all know that by now. In about 3-4 years, we should know that about David Taylor as well. Isn't that about how long it took Gable or Sanderson to shine?
 
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Crablegs1

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TheREALSpooner said:
I think what it comes down to is whether he's proven himself at ISU. They've gotten better as a program, and was he a big part of that? Has he had the recruiting wins? Have their middleweight wrestlers developed on his watch?

It doesn't *feel* like it to me, but what do I know? He's definitely a nice guy, has good name recognition, and would be a guy the fans can unite behind (me included).
Click to expand...
FWIW, i like Brent, but am not sold about him being the next head coach at ISU. I think that seems like the plan, but I hope they at least open up the search.
 
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Crablegs1

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azchief32 said:
I'll bite. Brent is a great Hawkeye. I'll always remember randomly seeing one of his matches brought me back to the sport. But we already had a scenario like this back in 2017 when Dresser got hired and put together his staff at ISU. Back then, Metcalf wasn't cold product...he was coming off making multiple world teams and high school kids could still remember his dominance. That plus Zadick, DSJ and their was a sh*t ton of hype. In fact, this board threw a fit so large because we wanted Metcalf to stay that it led to the donating and the Inner Circle. ISU had $$ coming in and the makings of a great staff. It was the biggest story of the 2017 offseason much like DT going to OSU; the narrative being "Spurned Brands guys join Dresser to take over state."

This should have resulted in an giant uptick in recruiting...Some big name guys plus some transfers....maybe from Va Tech since three of their coaches were coming over. But Degan was the only one that jumped over with them IIRC which to me was surprising. Carr (Nate hired as CWC coach) and Chittum have been their biggest recruits to date. They also have the HWY coming in from Cali who is a certifiable Tank. Kudos to them for thinking outside the box and hiring Villaescusa as their "Development Coordinator" which brought the Cubans in eventually.

Here are their results:

2018
NCAA Pts/Place:3/45th
AA:0
Champs:0

2019
NCAA Pts/Place:32/16th
AA:2
Champs:0

2021
NCAA Pts/Place:37.5/13th
AA:2
Champs:1 (Carr)

2022
NCAA Pts/Place:37/17th
AA: 3
Champs:0


2023
NCAA Pts/Place:47/11th
AA: 2
Champs:0


2024
NCAA Pts/Place:68.5/4th
AA:4
Champs:1(Carr)


2025
NCAA Pts/Place:18/27th
AA: 1
Champs:0

If you are keeping score, that's 1 top ten and top 5 finish...both in the same year.

This year, I think they have 2 legit shots at champs at 197, HWY plus an AA at 125,141. Plus, they finally beat Iowa so they have that going for them. However, after 2021 (gave them 4 years for a turn around), any one of these results would have y'all clamoring for the Coach to get fired except for maybe 2024. I say maybe because there was a lot of talk of getting rid of Tom in the early 2010s for similar results. Finishing 27th last year and they would have had to shut the Cesspool down.

If Tom were to be fired, I don't think anybody on staff at ISU is the answer, respectfully.
Click to expand...
I think if you only look at results, there simply isn’t another coach that has Brands success. So I guess you’d be stuck with Brands for life.

But, there are significant advantages of being the coach at Iowa vs most other schools. So, while someone like Dresser or Schwab or Pat Pop don’t have anywhere near Brands results, they’re also doing more with Less.
 
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TheREALSpooner

TheREALSpooner

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azchief32 said:
I'll bite. Brent is a great Hawkeye. I'll always remember randomly seeing one of his matches brought me back to the sport. But we already had a scenario like this back in 2017 when Dresser got hired and put together his staff at ISU. Back then, Metcalf wasn't cold product...he was coming off making multiple world teams and high school kids could still remember his dominance. That plus Zadick, DSJ and their was a sh*t ton of hype. In fact, this board threw a fit so large because we wanted Metcalf to stay that it led to the donating and the Inner Circle. ISU had $$ coming in and the makings of a great staff. It was the biggest story of the 2017 offseason much like DT going to OSU; the narrative being "Spurned Brands guys join Dresser to take over state."

This should have resulted in an giant uptick in recruiting...Some big name guys plus some transfers....maybe from Va Tech since three of their coaches were coming over. But Degan was the only one that jumped over with them IIRC which to me was surprising. Carr (Nate hired as CWC coach) and Chittum have been their biggest recruits to date. They also have the HWY coming in from Cali who is a certifiable Tank. Kudos to them for thinking outside the box and hiring Villaescusa as their "Development Coordinator" which brought the Cubans in eventually.

Here are their results:

2018
NCAA Pts/Place:3/45th
AA:0
Champs:0

2019
NCAA Pts/Place:32/16th
AA:2
Champs:0

2021
NCAA Pts/Place:37.5/13th
AA:2
Champs:1 (Carr)

2022
NCAA Pts/Place:37/17th
AA: 3
Champs:0


2023
NCAA Pts/Place:47/11th
AA: 2
Champs:0


2024
NCAA Pts/Place:68.5/4th
AA:4
Champs:1(Carr)


2025
NCAA Pts/Place:18/27th
AA: 1
Champs:0

If you are keeping score, that's 1 top ten and top 5 finish...both in the same year.

This year, I think they have 2 legit shots at champs at 197, HWY plus an AA at 125,141. Plus, they finally beat Iowa so they have that going for them. However, after 2021 (gave them 4 years for a turn around), any one of these results would have y'all clamoring for the Coach to get fired except for maybe 2024. I say maybe because there was a lot of talk of getting rid of Tom in the early 2010s for similar results. Finishing 27th last year and they would have had to shut the Cesspool down.

If Tom were to be fired, I don't think anybody on staff at ISU is the answer, respectfully.
Click to expand...

Being a bit of a devil’s advocate here, I don’t think you can pin Iowa State’s results on Brent Metcalf. He is a part of it, but he does not run the show. The questions I asked to speak more to how he is performing. Just my take.

That said, last year, not withstanding, they have put that program back in pretty good shape from where it was, like it or not.
 
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TheREALSpooner

TheREALSpooner

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Hogghawk said:
Wow if you think them type of recruits are going to narrow the gap with Penn state your in for a long journey as head coaching material
Click to expand...

I realize that guy can defend himself, but he in no way said this. You are stuffing a ton of words down his mouth.
 
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azchief32

azchief32

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TheREALSpooner said:
Being a bit of a devil’s advocate here, I don’t think you can pin Iowa State’s results on Brent Metcalf. He is a part of it, but he does not run the show. The questions I asked to speak more to how he is performing. Just my take.

That said, last year, not withstanding, they have put that program back in pretty good shape from where it was, like it or not.
Click to expand...

Before bringing Metcalf or anybody else in, we need to look at it and see if he is a "draw." TBH, I fully believed they would start bringing in big names right away because Metcalf was on staff. Many on this board did too judging by the level of panic back then. They didn't and never really did. Folks can debate about Tom staying or going but they can't argue that he wasn't bringing in big names to Va Tech who then followed him to Iowa in the beginning. Mocco said he would have followed him except he didn't know the training situation back then and chose the next best thing...OSU. He needed ready made partners.

I think it was you that mentioned Burroughs in this thread and a guy like that would certainly move the needle. He has charisma and is arguably the best wrestler we ever produced. Metcalf sitting second chair would be great. Personally, I like Kemerer as an assistant in that scenario but maybe that's just me. We need guys hustling and getting after the high school studs because that has been our shortfall since the 2022 guys left. We've had to rely on transfers. Judging by ISU's lineup, so have they (and Cubans).
 
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azchief32

azchief32

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Crablegs1 said:
I think if you only look at results, there simply isn’t another coach that has Brands success. So I guess you’d be stuck with Brands for life.

But, there are significant advantages of being the coach at Iowa vs most other schools. So, while someone like Dresser or Schwab or Pat Pop don’t have anywhere near Brands results, they’re also doing more with Less.
Click to expand...

I might give you the NIL era advantages but if anything, NIL has helped ISU in the transfer portal. Before when it was 9.9, what were the significant advantages? The fanbase? Maybe but that's a double-edge sword as I pointed out in my original post. It is for wrestlers as well. Ben Askren isn't pointing out UNI, ISU or NC State's wrestler's failures on Twitter like he did with Kueter (as a larger indictment of Brands). All of the guys you mentioned can have bad seasons with next to zero AAs, their teams can underperform and there is literally no pressure on them besides what they put on themselves. The Iowa spotlight can get pretty bright. Everybody outside of it loves it when you fail and the fans have the pitchforks out so it's going to take a pretty confident individual to handle it.

If Iowa is going to replace Tom whenever, then I want a situation that makes sense as an upgrade.
 
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MVPFAN

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WS_Cop said:
Yes yes I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but TnT will retire within this decade most likely. Who do you think would be best to take over?

My picks:
HC - Brent Metcalf
AC1 - Spencer Lee
AC2 - Tony Ramos
AC3 - Michael Kemerer

Honorable mentions: Sorenson, Desanto, McDonough, St. John, maybe some outsiders like Hidlay, Nolf, or even Coleman Scott.
Click to expand...
None of the above.
 
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