Man, What A WEIRD Season....
- Thread starter Hall-O-Daze
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You need to start with a decent budget but u still have to make the right decisions on players, plus your defensive and offensive schemes. We lacked the offensive side
Absolutely. It is now no different than professional sports, and without a real salary cap for certain schools, apparently. Unlike professional sports, when my Yankees lost in the WS to the Dodgers, my initial take on the series wasn't "payroll/resources, payroll/resources, payroll/resources, payroll/resources". It was (a) man the Dodgers remind me of the late 90s Yankees with how they perform in big spots; (b) can't believe we let the Dodgers back into that game because of defensive miscues; (c) if only Nestor got Freeman out in that spot during game 1, maybe the series goes different; and (d) what can we do roster-wise to improve for next season.
And it certainly isn't: The Dodgers are evil; Dave Roberts is a demonic, bad person, who sold his soul to the devil when he swiped second base in game 4 of the 2004 ALCS, and helped reverse a curse; Andrew Friedman and the Dodgers ownership are terrible people who no one in baseball respects, and who covertly run the "pizza gate" stuff referenced in all the Epstein emails released by the DOJ.
I said it yesterday but I look at last four in projections. Teams like VCU and California are projected in and similar spots. They don't have anything that impressive over us. I'm not going to say anything absolute as I don't follow outside Seton Hall and BE play, but they probably beat all the teams they are supposed to beat. If we beat trash like Depaul and Creighton, we arguably are still very close in the bubble.
But getting one win against St Johns and Uconn, or even one against Nova could've made a difference between being far out of the bubble to being just right in.
End of day if we won last night, we needed to always make the final anyway to be a sure in. It's frustrating now they have to win the whole thing. I believe Sha made the tourney with St Peters by simply winning the tournament, but even then it seems like such a task and this isn't the MAC conference.
But getting one win against St Johns and Uconn, or even one against Nova could've made a difference between being far out of the bubble to being just right in.
End of day if we won last night, we needed to always make the final anyway to be a sure in. It's frustrating now they have to win the whole thing. I believe Sha made the tourney with St Peters by simply winning the tournament, but even then it seems like such a task and this isn't the MAC conference.
You are right in that if we get one of the Uconn/SJU games (preferrably one the road) and one of the Nova games, we are probably in the dance as an at-large. I haven't studied the metrics or other bubble teams enough, but that would put us at 12-8 in the league, 22 Ws overall, and give us two good wins for the resume.
I only saw from ESPN and CBS last night. I see VCU and checked their schedule, their one notable win is probably Virgina Tech and beating Dayton two times (I guess that's better than us), but IDK I will still value strength of Big East even during down year.
IDK if it was them or California, but one of them lost to K-State which we beat handily. Also VCU played NC State and lose while we won.
Still, I can't make excuses. VCU 2nd in their conference respectably and probably beat who they need to while we didn't, but 2 more wins could've made a difference in over toppping some of these teams.
I think the point he is making is that for folks like yourself, Seton75, Carino, etc -- who picked us to be around a middle of the pack team, our season and where we finished shouldn't be as surprising compared to folks (myself included) who thought we would finish at the bottom again. Or the BE coaches generally, who picked us last. And how all of that bears on people's views related to BE COY.
Part of the reason why I think Sha did a really good job overall with this group is because of where I thought we would be preseason. I massively underestimated and was dead wrong about some of the players we brought in the door. And I underestimated what Sha would be able to do after 2024's disaster, especially on the defense end of the court. But for folks who thought the team would be way better than projected, and that Sha is a top upper echelon coach in the league, it shouldn't be as surprising.
That's my understanding as to the point he was making.
I picked them 8-12. That's not middle of the pack. They greatly surpassed my expectations and if memory serves only Seton75 agreed with me on the 8 wins.
Don't remember where Jerry picked them but I don't think it was middle of the pack either.
Don't remember where Jerry picked them but I don't think it was middle of the pack either.
8-12 is not middle of the pack most years, but this year it would be. My recall is Carino was "adamant" this isn't a last place team, and may have hedged a bit on where exactly they would land, but I thought he predicted a possible "middle of the pack" type finish as well.
Although I could be confusing this with last year, when Carino predicted we would be middle of the pack, and others thought we would too preseason, even as high as 6th as I recall was predicted by some here.
Middle of the pack NIL is fine by me. Seton Hall found a way to consistently make the NCAAT practicing in a basement. We’ve been at a recruiting disadvantage for a long time so nothing new there.
8M is plenty of money to assemble a very competitive team. Should the long term goal be to continue raising NIL? Absolutely, but that’s enough money to make the tournament imo.
They had 6M this year and the chance to dance was there for the taking.
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How will we possibly have $8m to pay men’s basketball players. Where did $6m come from this year? Now, we found another $2m on top of replenishing the $6m?? I don’t believe it.
Because under the current revenue sharing rules, the school can use its own money towards paying college basketball players. So the school diverts money from other stuff to pay for rosters. Essentially. Then they try to fundraise to offset the $$$ going to pay players instead of to other students, academic programs, scholarships/grants, infrastructure and stuff like that. Or at least it seems some schools do that to offset the "pay for play" loss.
That’s crazy and ridiculous. And people here wonder why the students who are going into decades of debt don’t show up to support them..
I don’t think students give a sh*t if the players are paid from rev share or otherwise. Plenty of other schools with much higher budgets have packed student sections.
That model is not going to work long term for a school like Seton Hall. As roster costs continue to rise and rise, eventually somebody from the school whether it be the students or faculty will flip out on the money dispersement. A few million you can sneak around. What happens when rosters are averaging 25-30 million?
As I’ve said numerous times, it’s going to come down to each team getting their own independent owner who will reap the benefits (if any) and pay the salaries while the school maintains a loose affiliation.
I think it doesn’t necessarily move Seton Hall up the food chain. It could. Or we could go backwards. I wouldn’t say there is a fixed level of roster you can buy for a different price. That is, you can get a better roster for $6 million than you get for $8 million if you identify talent correctly and catch a break or two.
As much as I remain on #TeamSha, I think he could’ve built a better roster this year. It is probably pretty close to what others might manage, but scouting and identifying a shooter or two would’ve made all the difference in the world.
Holloway learned a lot from last year to this year, but he’s still got room to grow —plenty of it. If things the way we’re going to play — and that’s fine if so — then he needs to find a player or two that can hit a three every so often. The known quantities cost money, but resourcefulness is turning over stones to find the under-the-radar guys to make the $8 million go farther. Strategic spending can result in an improvement and we can make a move next season. But we could easily be worse.
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Everyone in the league that finished .500 or over benefitted from a weak bottom half. This isn't some enlightened thought.
It's sad that you used to be a fan (you admitted you've checked out multiple times) and poster. Now, you're in the class with the four nimrods who joined and have been tolerated since Dan handed over the reins. You have zero objectivity. On one hand, Pitino should win COY because he won 18 games; on the other, we should have had 3-4 more losses and benefitted from the Big East. Do yourself, and us, a favor and check all the way out. It's tiring -- and really silly.
The secrecy on nil spent and what kids are getting is the liar and manipulators dream. Every negotiation, every everything.
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Problem with that analogy is that the Yankees can spend as much as the Dodgers. They are on equal footing. The Yanka have what the second or third highest payroll. They are two blue bloods playing against each other. Can’t complain about how much the Dodgers spend.
Seton Hall will never be on equal footing, unless it gets funded by billionaires. Therefore, it will always be an underdog.
If you ask Hal Steinbrenner, he will tell you the Yankees cannot spend on that level. That his family doesn't have the money that the Dodgers have. Again, not sure how accurate, and certain bothers some Yankee fans because of how George used to be, but it's been raised.
We all know Seton Hall has never been at the top of the food chain resource wise, pre-NIL, now post-NIL. But it has now devolved where the first reaction to so many outcomes is "NILNILNILNILNILNILNILNILNILNIL".
If you don't think coaches, athletic departments and "insiders" sometimes have agendas with this stuff, I disagree. But we can go back to the name calling and trolling. All good.
Agreed. And the "agents" now in some cases aren't even real, professional "agents". They also supposedly get commissions that dwarf professional sports. So, come portal season, they have every incentive to leak to the media types numbers or rumors that are fake or enhanced.
Fair enough but I would love to see what Holloway could do with $10 million.
I was being tongue-in-cheek, so I apologize I didn't make that clear. I didn't call you any names, so...
It was more a reaction to the "state run media" comment. Carino is an alum and fan, so there's that. He's also the only beat writer we
have, and calls it pretty straight. He also has to do a balancing act and keep his access.
We did play well in Maui which was the same 3 games in 3 days format. Yes we play hard but do play 9-10 players and have good defensive depth. The 1st thing to go when you're tired is the shooting and we don't do that so well to begin with.
All good. I appreciate Jerry being the only person who gives us coverage and it’s why I make it a point to “click” on anything Dan sends and listen to Jersey Jump shot because I know that matters (also I think his non-basketball stories are terrific).
Do I think he covers things objectively? Not recently. And I get that to a point because he needs access and our head coach isn’t exactly a media machine or someone who even likes the media. I think Carino has gone beyond out of his way to be “glass half full” all the time this last year plus. Especially because of what happened last year.
I've read Carino for years, and I'm not sure this is new -- and I'm more of a glass half-full person, myself. In the dark days of Willard's early years here, before Lyons' intervention and the Whitehead class, was Jerry down on Willard? I honestly don't remember -- maybe he got treated with the same kid gloves.
Guess you can decide for yourself how he treated Willard.
Here is his article following the final BE regular season game in March of 2015, before our poor showing vs Marquette in the first round of the BET.
Remember we were in a 4-12 slide after starting the BE season with ranked wins over Nova and SJU. Just put that into context in regard to how some are killing Sha now vs how Jerry wrote this article relative to Willard.
Well we'll have to rebuild most of the team again next season with NIL the way it is so let's hope Sha can entice at least 1 Myles Powell or Jeremy Hazel type who can put a team on their back on offense. Powell was the last time we had a guy like that..
Not really. If I was a fan of SJU or UConn I would say we were hurt by not having more times to showcase their teams against better competition. 14 of their 20 games were against teams with a NET between 80 and 105.