Kurds off the top rope, this could get interesting!

DT4248 said:

So after 58,000 American deaths we didn't advance capitalism past the 17th parallel and within 2 years it all fell apart - so we didn't build lasting capitalism where we stood. What mission objective did we complete? If you're saying we didn't lose the Vietnam War because we held serve for 18 years - that's your best answer.

Anyway anyone reads that - it's an L. You're trying to get us off on a technicality but we were not successful. Again - how would you define America winning that war to look like?

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It's all about your perspective. I see it as two wars, and you don't. I am good with that.

Side note: I would like to visit Vietnam. The only communist country I would like to visit. I got a friend whose wife is from there. He goes all the time, and he says Americans are treated like gold. Many of the fire bases are parks. I would like to go viist them.

FormerBully said:

I talked to a friend that is in the Active Guard Reserve (Full time national guard). He told me that no one really know what is coming, but Trump was hoping this would go like the 12 day war and it hasn’t. He was told yesterday that it is looking like a 50% chance he will be going to the Middle East and Iran with the longer this goes the greater the odds rise. I asked him what he thinks? He said, unfortunately he thinks is going to the Middle East and Iran. Pray for those in the military because it may be a long few years. I hope not but looking like it.

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What a debacle. The US has no business in a war of attrition with these cats.

GloryDawg said:

It's all about your perspective. I see it as two wars, and you don't. I am good with that.

Side note: I would like to visit Vietnam. The only communist country I would like to visit. I got a friend whose wife is from there. He goes all the time, and he says Americans are treated like gold. Many of the fire bases are parks. I would like to go viist them.

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Even if you see it as two wars you see it as absolute best that we spent 58k+ American lives to delay the inevitable and you can try to reason your way to a tie.

Then a a damn near forfeit by South Vietnam in the second War.

When you look at the big picture it doesn't seem like we accomplished a damn thing positive.

GloryDawg said:

Side note: I would like to visit Vietnam. The only communist country I would like to visit.

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I continually struggle to view Vietnam as communist.
Given the sheer volume of varied product that the country manufactures and exports, and all the global companies that set up shop there, it is so damn tough to call it communist.


Communism is a classless and stateless society.
Clearly, Vietnam very much has classes and a strong centralized government.
Public ownership of the means of production also isn't happening.



Not very Communistic.

DT4248 said:

What's America's goal (this is clearly separate from Trump's goal)? If we don't achieve that then we don't win no matter how many Iranians we kill.

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Ain’t got one, other than what you said earlier. Haven’t learned our lesson from 25 years ago - but at least back then we had a direct attack on us to point to.

We have too many people saying we have to do whatever possible to support Israel - and that’s music to the warmongers’ ears. Or maybe they are all the same?

Us fighting Iran won’t just help destabilize the region - it’s ultimately going to help Israel take over. They are already too big for their britches. We’re just too stupid to see it.

FormerBully said:

Trump got a big head and high from 12 Day War and venezuela. This is a completely different animal.

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Tend to agree.

OG Goat Holder said:

Ain’t got one, other than what you said earlier. Haven’t learned our lesson from 25 years ago - but at least back then we had a direct attack on us to point to.

We have too many people saying we have to do whatever possible to support Israel - and that’s music to the warmongers’ ears. Or maybe they are all the same?

Us fighting Iran won’t just help destabilize the region - it’s ultimately going to help Israel take over. They are already too big for their britches. We’re just too stupid to see it.

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Rubio admitted early this week that Israel drug us into this fight. We have given them way to much power and they are not even a great trade partner.

Even better than the Kurds.

mstateglfr said:

I continually struggle to view Vietnam as communist.
Given the sheer volume of varied product that the country manufactures and exports, and all the global companies that set up shop there, it is so damn tough to call it communist.


Communism is a classless and stateless society.
Clearly, Vietnam very much has classes and a strong centralized government.
Public ownership of the means of production also isn't happening.



Not very Communistic.

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From what I hear I agree.

L4Dawg said:

Y’all need to do a little thinking on what might have happened had we not fought those wars. They served a purpose and were not in vain. Not every war ends in a highly visible unconditional surrender type total victory. In fact those wars are few and far between in history.

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Best I can tell Vietnam is a veritable capitalist paradise now even though they might not claim to be. Someone on Wheel of Fortune won a trip to Vietnam last night.

mstateglfr said:

I continually struggle to view Vietnam as communist.
Given the sheer volume of varied product that the country manufactures and exports, and all the global companies that set up shop there, it is so damn tough to call it communist.


Communism is a classless and stateless society.
Clearly, Vietnam very much has classes and a strong centralized government.
Public ownership of the means of production also isn't happening.



Not very Communistic.

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It’s communist in structure still but economically it’s more market driven.

The cost of living is extremely cheap.

FormerBully said:

Rubio admitted early this week that Israel drug us into this fight. We have given them way to much power and they are not even a great trade partner.

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A continuation of the Clean Break strategy. Israel says "jump" and evangelicals say, "how high?"

There are boots on the ground in Iran now (depending on your definition of "boots"). We JUST abandoned the Kurds 2 weeks ago in Syria because Trump trusted the new Syrian President and he screwed us. As a result, Syria will launch a genocide of the Kurds there. The best thing the Kurds could have hoped for was for us to tell them to cross the mountains and wage war against the IRGC (with our support). They needed a place to go where they can maybe win and we need them to do our dirty work for us on the ground in Iran. They are a hard people and they're built for this but make no mistake, Syria planned (and still is) a complete annihilation of the Kurds in NE Syria. As for our attack on Iran, while it hasn't gone perfect (whether you're for it or against it, it's gone very well). We have put on a master clinic for the most part. Let's hope we don't screw it up and we can pull back in the coming 6-8 weeks.