Some uncomfortable truths in this video
This is a pretty good primer on what's wrong with youth sports
- Thread starter 615dawg
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There's no winding back the clock. If you have the time and expertise (or can pay for the expertise) you can get your child to maximize their potential and that kid is going to get opportunities over the "well-rounded" kid in most situations (of course natural talent is going to have a say as well). But it's a competition within a competition. We can bemoan it, but this is what competition does.
We celebrate those who sacrifice to be better but then we also complain that being better is so costly. Catch 22 I guess.
We celebrate those who sacrifice to be better but then we also complain that being better is so costly. Catch 22 I guess.
Okay ...
Title IX brought women into the youth sports game
College sports on TV gave parents motivation to push kids for "college scholarships"
Groups like the AAU decided to make travel sports a bigger deal for younger kids
Tiger Woods became the first "toddler sensation" to actually make it big
Malcom Gladwell's horrible book "The Outliers" that hurt education also hurt youth sports
Sporting goods companies started seeing the $$$ in youth sports and got ridiculous
Private equity groups soon followed
NIL started making 18 year olds millionaires
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Thank you sir, a real gentleman and a scholar
Lot of gear you see at sporting goods stores are banana ball related. Some kids you will ask who their favorite player is they'll answer a guy that plays for the Savannah Bananas.
It really is a shame. My son is playing soccer, golf and tennis, and he's playing them all on a rec level at the moment. If he wants to play in a tournament or two, that's fine, but we aren't going to make it his entire life. I want my kids to have a wide variety of things they enjoy, not 60 hour weeks on a baseball field and in a batting cage learning to hate the sport that so many parents force their kids to play.
I agree this is the preferable method, but how would/will you feel if kids whose parents did make it their life are getting to play/start/etc.? This is the rub I see. We'd all like our kids to have what we might call a "normal" adolescence, but once one person goes all in it sort of forces the hands of everyone else.
Personally I wanted my children to play as many different sports as possible, especially on teams because I think that has a real benefit later on. But some of them didn't make their preferred team in high school and they might have if I'd let them specialize. Tough decision for parents.
Video wasn't really about this, but yes, agree. At the end of the day I don't really even subscribe to that play multiple sports stuff anymore either. At least for any kid over 12 years old.
Everybody eventually gets sucked in, unless you're kid is a freak athlete. Even then you still have to acquiesce a little bit.
Bottom line is, it isn't rocket science. Sports are popular, money eventually takes it over.
I convinced my son he was trans just so we didn't have to pay for travel ball.
I told my kid he doesn’t have the genetic material needed to go pro, so I’m not dropping $6k a year for him to play travel ball
I remember when travel ball was reserved for kids who were actually good at sports. Now the requirement is how deep your pockets are to fund it.
I love how the creator acknowledges that he is exposing how these companies profit from kids while his own content is supported by Storyblocks. Thus essentially making him part of the very economy he's critiquing.
Old people always think their youth was better. Been that way forever...
That's the real problem. I know a guy with teams from 10 to 12 year old. He's got them practicing 3 times a week and rarely playing games. Which I think is probably a better model than the opposite, where they play 5 games a weekend and only practice once if at all but get plenty of plastic rings. But he's got kids spending 2 nights a week and sunday afternoon basically year round since they were 8 or 9 years old when half of them aren't even going to play high school ball. Parents have somehow gotten it into their head that just spending a bunch of time working at sports is beneficial, when really it'd be ok if they just enjoyed childhood.
Hard work is great, but if you are going to have your kid commit that much of their spare time to something, do it with something that will benefit them later on beyond just training them to have the discipline to do things when they don't want to do them. Half those kids aren't going to get to play high school ball but probably almost all of them could have all A's, 100% of the time if they just played rec and spent the rest of the time on academics. Not that I'm recommending that for 8 - 11 years olds either, but that seems like a much better deal for the kids. Still get to enjoy sports and get used to doing things you don't want to do, but it will be things you don't want to do that will likely be similar to what will get you paid more money later.
Mainly it's just sad to me that we are chasing kids several years from puberty away from sports they would enjoy, and also taking others that are several years from puberty but will never get to enjoy even high school sports, much less college, and making sure they don't get to enjoy the sports they can play.
It's fascinating to see how crazy it all gets. I think we all fall for it at some level too when you're kid starts to have a little success. Myself included.
I think when it's the hardest to control yourself as a parent is when it's a sport you played. I'm a baseball guy, I find myself getting way too invested in my kids baseball at times. Other sports like wrestling and track that I know nothing about I tend to be super reasonable and practical about.
They don't need to compete all the time. They need to have fun, not burn out, and most importantly practice enough to gather a minimal amount of skill. None of its real for the boys until their balls drop.
I always love seeing this graphic.
If you ever want to see a sport that figured this out in the US it's Hockey. They go play in these youth prep leagues for a year or two after high school and then at 20 they see who's actually got pro or college potential. More often than not it's the better athletes that played lots of other sports and started dialing in gaining the hockey skills at 13-14 and by 19-20 they blow by the early specializers.
I think when it's the hardest to control yourself as a parent is when it's a sport you played. I'm a baseball guy, I find myself getting way too invested in my kids baseball at times. Other sports like wrestling and track that I know nothing about I tend to be super reasonable and practical about.
They don't need to compete all the time. They need to have fun, not burn out, and most importantly practice enough to gather a minimal amount of skill. None of its real for the boys until their balls drop.
I always love seeing this graphic.
If you ever want to see a sport that figured this out in the US it's Hockey. They go play in these youth prep leagues for a year or two after high school and then at 20 they see who's actually got pro or college potential. More often than not it's the better athletes that played lots of other sports and started dialing in gaining the hockey skills at 13-14 and by 19-20 they blow by the early specializers.
1. When choosing a mate, for the most part, you sealed your kid’s athletic future.
2. With everything else, food prices at restaurants, vehicle prices, etc., the consumer holds all the power, but just doesn’t realize it.
There was a recent thread on Tigerdroppings/OT, the mom spends $15k/year on her 15 year old son’s baseball activities. Plot twist, he is slightly below average (his stats compared to others on his teams). The “experts” chimed in that at the very best he is a marginal D3 talent. Of course mom complained that housing/foods costs were too high and struggles financially.
2. With everything else, food prices at restaurants, vehicle prices, etc., the consumer holds all the power, but just doesn’t realize it.
There was a recent thread on Tigerdroppings/OT, the mom spends $15k/year on her 15 year old son’s baseball activities. Plot twist, he is slightly below average (his stats compared to others on his teams). The “experts” chimed in that at the very best he is a marginal D3 talent. Of course mom complained that housing/foods costs were too high and struggles financially.
Someone posted this in the comment section of an article I read on the Olympic hockey team and that apparently Jack Hughes is Jewish. I couldn't stop laughing.
Our son is 8, and I’m trying to buck the trend as much as possible.
For one thing, i see friends coaching travel ball that aren’t as athletic as me, and didn’t have the instruction I had growing up. So why should I expect my my kid to flourish under them, rather than me teaching him myself. I get him outside playing some sport every good weather day we get, and it’s laid back and he loves it. He gets to do rec league baseball, rec league flag football, some tennis on the side, and he’ll probably do competitive swim next year. And he still has plenty of time for reading, piano, Church, vacation, and playing in the yard with neighborhood friends.
And I’m a huge believer in playing multiple sports. I believe running football routes can enhance your baseball skills, and practicing baseball can enhance your tennis skills, and so on. Both in improving hand eye coordination and just learning how to be ‘athletic’. Plus, it Greatly reduces burnout.
For one thing, i see friends coaching travel ball that aren’t as athletic as me, and didn’t have the instruction I had growing up. So why should I expect my my kid to flourish under them, rather than me teaching him myself. I get him outside playing some sport every good weather day we get, and it’s laid back and he loves it. He gets to do rec league baseball, rec league flag football, some tennis on the side, and he’ll probably do competitive swim next year. And he still has plenty of time for reading, piano, Church, vacation, and playing in the yard with neighborhood friends.
And I’m a huge believer in playing multiple sports. I believe running football routes can enhance your baseball skills, and practicing baseball can enhance your tennis skills, and so on. Both in improving hand eye coordination and just learning how to be ‘athletic’. Plus, it Greatly reduces burnout.
Let me tell you guys a story about youth volleyball.
The best teams in Mississippi get destroyed when they go to the National level tournaments. Imagine three days in a snow-filled Midwestern town. Flight, downtown hotel, restaurants, missing school - all to get absolutely destroyed when they play mid-level teams from Wisconsin, Nebraska, and the Chicago area.
The wife and I had an epiphany a couple years ago. Its just not worth it for 90 percent of the girls doing it. We once traveled across the country only to end up playing a team from across town in the triple consolation match. When you are getting beat so bad that the opposing parents are laughing at you, you start realizing that you are the sucker. These same girls are going to go back and play on their high school teams and make all-state and the best of them may get a shot at a low mid-major.
We stopped. Our kids wanted to stop. They still play on their high school teams.
The best teams in Mississippi get destroyed when they go to the National level tournaments. Imagine three days in a snow-filled Midwestern town. Flight, downtown hotel, restaurants, missing school - all to get absolutely destroyed when they play mid-level teams from Wisconsin, Nebraska, and the Chicago area.
The wife and I had an epiphany a couple years ago. Its just not worth it for 90 percent of the girls doing it. We once traveled across the country only to end up playing a team from across town in the triple consolation match. When you are getting beat so bad that the opposing parents are laughing at you, you start realizing that you are the sucker. These same girls are going to go back and play on their high school teams and make all-state and the best of them may get a shot at a low mid-major.
We stopped. Our kids wanted to stop. They still play on their high school teams.
The accumulation of as much talent as possible on one team.......is none other than.......college sports. When you really think about it, there's nothing fair about it and never has been. So I don't know why we try so hard to level the playing field, as it's impossible.
At least high school makes it geographically based (to a certain extent). And pro has a draft.
College and travel - free for all. I think eventually travel/select ball may choke out high school, in everything other than football. I say that, but maybe not. Probably would have happened by now if it was going to.
My metro is close to 800k.
Between all the clubs...
- there should be 2 genuinely national level teams for each age, where they play half their tournaments more than 3 hours away and 3/4 of their tournaments are multi-day.
- there should be 3 'national' level teams where less than half their schedule is multi-day tournaments, and no tournaments should be more than 3 hours away.
- the remaining teams at each age level should all be regional/local and play in 1 day tournaments within 2 hours of home as well as a couple local multi-day tournaments in the metro.
Instead of the above, we have like 12 'national' teams for each age group and a bunch of 2nd and 3rd teams at clubs have multi-day tournaments for 3/4 of their schedule.
There is NO justification for a 15-3 team to play in 5 multi-day tournaments, with 4 of them over 2 hours away. 0 justification.
The only reason that happens is $ and keeping up with the Joneses. It is so dumb.
I’ll add this.
A child’s athletic potential is pretty baked in, in a lot of ways.
Travel ball won’t make you taller.
It won’t change your God given speed.
It won’t change your fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fiber make up.
And it won’t determine whether someone has that “it” mental factor and work ethic.
**Travel sports won’t increase someone’s athletic potential. It primarily just speeds up the timing in which someone might reach that potential. **
If your goal is for your child to be good next year, it will definitely help. If your goal is for your child to gradually develop over a period of years while their body matures, the benefit will be limited.
A child’s athletic potential is pretty baked in, in a lot of ways.
Travel ball won’t make you taller.
It won’t change your God given speed.
It won’t change your fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fiber make up.
And it won’t determine whether someone has that “it” mental factor and work ethic.
**Travel sports won’t increase someone’s athletic potential. It primarily just speeds up the timing in which someone might reach that potential. **
If your goal is for your child to be good next year, it will definitely help. If your goal is for your child to gradually develop over a period of years while their body matures, the benefit will be limited.
I live in Houston and I already loathe what's headed my way for my 7 and 4 year old. My 7 year old daugther is on a competitive gymnastics team and practices 3X a week for 3.5 hours each time. Now, she can do more pull-ups at 7 than most posters on this board can do... and gymnastics has her base level conditioning at incredible levels BUT most of the parents and culture I see at these events is absurd... No, a seven year old doesn't need a LuLu Lemon track suit and water bottle (that was a requirement) and if we don't volunteer this weekend we get charged 150$ per parent....mind you volutneer times are like 2:30 in the afternoon and 9pm at night or during her events... people have lost their damn minds. Once my son turns 7/8 you're required to pay a coach in most of these baseball leagues. I 17'n hate it already and this was something I was looking forward to before I even had kids..
And it’s possible for travel ball to even hurt a child’s development.
I had a kid on my rec league team last year that had left travel ball because he was already disenchanted by it (age 9, mind you). He was a good kid and a stud on the field. Great arm, great fielding ability. And I had to get permission from the umpires to get the other teams pitcher to stand behind the circle because I was afraid for them to be too close when he batted.
But in travel ball, he wasn’t a priority because his team was so loaded, so he was stuck in R field and batting at the end of the line up. So it was actually limiting his ability to expand his skills.
I had a kid on my rec league team last year that had left travel ball because he was already disenchanted by it (age 9, mind you). He was a good kid and a stud on the field. Great arm, great fielding ability. And I had to get permission from the umpires to get the other teams pitcher to stand behind the circle because I was afraid for them to be too close when he batted.
But in travel ball, he wasn’t a priority because his team was so loaded, so he was stuck in R field and batting at the end of the line up. So it was actually limiting his ability to expand his skills.
Most people that complain about youth sports fall under a few categories:
1. Insanely stupid, self-absorbed people down talking parents who are spending time with their kids.
2. Your kid sucks so you're mad.
3. You can't afford it or don't want to afford it.
Regardless, it's a choice, so why be upset? It'll all change over time to something else too, it always does.
1. Insanely stupid, self-absorbed people down talking parents who are spending time with their kids.
2. Your kid sucks so you're mad.
3. You can't afford it or don't want to afford it.
Regardless, it's a choice, so why be upset? It'll all change over time to something else too, it always does.
Devil's Advocate for one second, with apologies to @Lucifer Morningstar, but is keeping kids off screens at all a factor in forcing so much athletics on kids?
It wasn't for me, but if someone said, "I keep my kid in baseball or volleyball year round so they won't be at home on tik tok or xbox," I'd be sympathetic to them.
It wasn't for me, but if someone said, "I keep my kid in baseball or volleyball year round so they won't be at home on tik tok or xbox," I'd be sympathetic to them.
Go to a volleyball tournament and see how many girls are doing random tiktoks during downtime.
Its them being social and doing something as a group though...its dumb to me, but doesnt seem bad.
5 of us used to sit in a room while only 2 at a time played Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat. I bet parents thought that was dumb too.
She can do one entire pullup? Damn.**
The truth is youth sports is dominated by loser adults looking to compensate for a perceived shortcoming in their own life. Then you have people going along because of FOMO. Put those two groups together, and it's hard to have a sane approach.
My son has kept playing soccer and flag football while starting to dip his toes in travel ball. The problem that you run into very quickly, at least with rec baseball, about 2nd or 3rd grade the talent is gone. Any kid that has a sliver of talent is in travel. You’re playing against 3rd graders that can’t catch the ball and there surely is no one that can throw a strike. It’s a shame because playing rec league baseball was some of the best memories from my childhood. But I can personally attest to the fact that rec baseball, at least in the Jackson metro area, is not good for any kid that wants to get better.
Back in my college days, a friend of mine once told me: the only thing that is a bigger waste of time than playing video games is watching other people play video games. Of course, he said that while we were sitting in front of the TV watching our friends play video games.
I wish more people realized this.
I'm trying to fight this off, too. We both love sports but hate what they've become. Ours is already on a "travel" soccer team at 6 (they are low key and really don't travel much- or at all yet. Mostly extra practice)- we will pull him if he starts to complain he doesn't enjoy it- because he is on a rec team and really that's all he needs to be on for the next several years. We both played soccer in college and neither of us played select anything.
The tball to me is absolutely crazy- he was on a tball team last year. Or, we thought he was, but really it was coach pitch t-ball. Why? Because there's all-stars apparently at this age (5-6 year olds!) and you have to play coach pitch during the rec season to qualify for all-stars? What we were told. So we literally had grown men trying to draft super teams at this age group so they could practice most of the season with their all-star team. And they'd get into arguments over some of the games and yell and scream about it. THEN... come to find out- none of these super serious coaches could actually even coach this all-star team when it came time. They wanted us to cancel our vacation plans to coach it- nope. We didn't even nominate our son because 1. he wasn't good enough and 2. (most importantly), there's no such thing as a 7u all star. Eventually some mom coached it.
Crazy people.
Used to be that missing church was a consideration when deciding whether to allow your kid to play competitive sports. Now it seems to be hardly considered. Sign of the times I guess.
This is my issue.
Money enters the picture and everything thinks they have to do travel ball in order to make high school team. All of a sudden, rec leagues are dying left and right because every kid moves to travel ball because "that's what you have to do to make the team". Next thing you know, travel ball is so watered down that 75%+ of those kids don't even make their high school teams. So in the end, what was the point?
Aside from everything, if your kid is good at the sport, they are good and they will make whatever team they need to. I would say the benefit of "travel ball" isn't being on a travel team so much as getting the advanced lessons/practice. And you can do that without being in a travel organization, just pay a washed up college or minor league player for private lessons.
Anecdotal, but a family friend of ours' son is 12u I believe and still plays rec ball only. Because of the degraded state of the rec leagues, he is head and shoulders the best kid in the entire league by a long shot. He's been bullied and made fun of at school for not being on a travel team (unrelated, parents... parent your kids better). He's every bit as good or better than any kid his age in a travel organization in the area. He should have no problem making the junior high and high school teams because he loves it and is passionate about getting better. Not being on a travel team did not and will not hurt his case, unless politics/money get involved, which is a very real possibility I guess.
How many kids with parents involved with youth sports are shooting up schools and staying in trouble? Not many. Taking your kid to practice and games are great times to talk to them.
Are their idiots that act a fool at games? Yep, it's common. But to generalize it's all bad is just silly. And I've acted a fool. The pressure builds when you have a talented kid sometimes and you just want them to reach their goal. I've had a kid play college ball. It was 1000% being broke & seeing them achieve their goal.
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This is what Travel Ball did for my daughter.
Division 2 Player of the Week.
Division 2 Player of the Week.