POLL: Should this season be Tom Brands last as HC at Iowa?
- Thread starter LIV4GOD
- Start date
I think you’ll notice that a lot of people who used to know things are quieter on this board. There’s a few reasons for that.
Tonight was the worst loss to Okie State since 1961. Finished the year with a dual meet record of 12-6 .667 Win %. By comparison Gable had 21 dual meet losses from 1976 to 1997. Zalesky lost more than 6 duals in a year only once, he went 11-7 the year he was fired in 2006
I have followed Iowa wrestling for over 50 years and must say, things have gone from bad to worse the last few years. We have new state of the art facilities, but it hasn't helped recruiting. Our development of recruits has waned and now even the portal wrestlers coming in are not contributing. My interest in watching the Hawks has reached an all-time lull. I voted yes, because after two matches last night, I changed the channel, sad to say.
There is too much money involved in athletics at Iowa to allow one of the marquee teams at the school to be mediocre. I appreciate all the Brands have done for the school, but it’s time to move on. I hope Tom retires, that would make it easier for all.
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I remember watching Tom and Terry as freshmen and thinking, they're too stupid to know they're supposed to lose (to whatever NCAA champ or AA they were wrestling and cursing and refusing to lose to)! It was that stubbornness that made them great.
I suspect Tom is now too stubborn to know he should step down. It's clear to most that, despite the brief aberration of Spencer Lee (our only multi-time champ since 2010?), we are perennially 3 or more studs shy of being contenders. This year we are at least 7 studs shy. We don't recruit enough studs, we don't develop them well, and we have a track record of losing them.
He's a Porsche with 150K miles; a 40-year-old Ali who hasn't floated like a butterfly since 2010. He's not going to magically get better. Only question is how long Beth waits. If anyone else were the coach and Tom were the AD, we all know what he would do.
I suspect Tom is now too stubborn to know he should step down. It's clear to most that, despite the brief aberration of Spencer Lee (our only multi-time champ since 2010?), we are perennially 3 or more studs shy of being contenders. This year we are at least 7 studs shy. We don't recruit enough studs, we don't develop them well, and we have a track record of losing them.
He's a Porsche with 150K miles; a 40-year-old Ali who hasn't floated like a butterfly since 2010. He's not going to magically get better. Only question is how long Beth waits. If anyone else were the coach and Tom were the AD, we all know what he would do.
I've been telling you all this for years. I told you after they never adjusted for the arm behind the back that opponents used against desanto. After they never progressed Bull, after Kem could never win a championship and everyone blamed it on injuries (hello, who is in charge of keeping them in shape).
Iowa may not be able to generate the depth that Penn state has, but they have the resources to create parity with Penn state, where they aren't going on 3+ year championship runs.
Brands' time is up and they need to leave.
Iowa may not be able to generate the depth that Penn state has, but they have the resources to create parity with Penn state, where they aren't going on 3+ year championship runs.
Brands' time is up and they need to leave.
Wanted to add another comment. I am truly appreciative for all Tom and Terry have meant to Iowa wrestling. They are great representatives of the sport globally. Did a lot of soul searching to say a change is needed. The Hawks winning championships was like death and taxes, it was always inevitable.
I say give him a few more years. This snow storm in the Northeast is just what he needs. Shovel some sidewalks, and open up the recruiting there. Its a can't miss plan.
Ive always been a TnT backer and still think they can turn it around, know that's in the minority right now. But, do agree they need oversight into their coaching ability and direction in todays wrestling world and yes maybe coach changes are needed. It was just 4-5 years ago they had a lineup very similar to this years PSU lineup but that has fallen off the rails. They should get some respect for what they have done for the program, the derogatory and hateful posts is not right, but is a freedom.
The difference between this line-up and the one I assume you are referring to with PSU, is they were redshirting and waiting for incoming generational talents. Iowa is not. At the very least, there needs to be a complete makeover with the assistant coaching staff. And that may also mean that Terry goes to the club and concentrates exclusively there. If Tom is not willing to make significant changes, then he must go too. All administrators face these decisions if you stick around long enough.
I was talking about the team 4 and 5 years ago being similar to PSU lineup this year. Without looking it up, I think we had 4 or 5 #1 ranked and 8-9 of our lineup in the top 10. I remember discussions of how many teams our backups could whip. But that's in the past and some change is needed to get back to it. Really think $$$ has more to do with it now and whether Iowa wrestling can realistically keep up with boosters from Penn St or Okie St. Recruits are everything and money talks. We got Cali, he isn't a hand fighting machine by any means, neither is Drake, we have to recruit better.
I agree with you 100% regarding recruiting and Cali in particular. Wrestlers like Peterson, Bailey, Arnold, etc. were not going to become offensive juggernauts regardless of who was coaching them. I put the vast majority of the blame on recruitment - not as much on development. As the saying goes, a tiger cannot change his stripes. If you want offense first wrestlers - then recruit them.
I have appreciated your input over the years and understand your stance. When you are aware of certain information there is a loyalty to be adhered to. I don’t have information on the program, however I do know people who do. With the way the year has gone I haven’t asked or had conversations with any of them, because I feel like they are, or could be frustrated, and don’t feel they are at liberty to say anything. In short, I appreciate their loyalty.
I do my best to keep my posts factual in nature. At the same time I have wrote about my concerns and agreed with fans who have called out the program and its coaches through the use of the like button.
My main concerns relate to our style and lack of good technique this year, which has produced a stale product. To quote Tom “our fans will reward you for scoring points and dominating.” He is also aware wrestlers are going to have a muted, quiet response, when they don’t perform up to expectations. I am fortunate enough to have great seats in the padded chair section and have witnessed more head shaking and people being visibly upset this year, more so than any other year I can recall.
I agree there are more trolls on here than I’d like to admit, however they seem to be less aggressive than they were in a time before AZ Chief and Wild Turk took over as moderators. If they or someone else with loyalty to the program where to begin moderating, I believe, there would be some pretty heated battles amongst only Iowa fans. Perhaps those with knowledge still wouldn’t say much, because it’s often right not to say anything, if you don’t have anything nice to say.
I really hope we outperform at Big Tens and Nationals. I’d eat my humble pie and admit I jumped the gun on posting to many negative facts/comments I have made.
Here is who PSU had participating in 2022 and their seed
125 Howard (23) top 5 pfp recruit
133 RBY (2)
141 Nick Lee (2)
149 empty Beau Bartlett didn’t qualify
157 Berge (12)
165 empty Joe Lee didn’t qualify
174 Starrochi (3)
184 Brooks (1)
197 Beard (15)
285 Kerk (9)
Starocci and Nick Lee avenged losses in the BT final to Eireman and Kem.
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I was specifically referring to the year that they finished something like 6th at Nationals. Maybe 2015 or 2016. They knew they were going to be "bad" but also knew they had spots filled for the future.
100% this. Guys like Spencer, Kem, Desanto didn't come in and change to hand fighting and tie ups ever. Its who you recruit and their style that counts. We got to go start getting more of them.
That’s a great point on hand fighting and tie ups. I was coached in high school and Junior College, if your hand fighting for position and go into a tie up, get out after 10 seconds and start over. I had a great high school coach. He was a journeyman at UNI where he wrestled behind Chuck Patten.
Having wrestled for iowa at the highest level and now coaching this prestigious program, it really has to weigh on Tom's mind that they are where they are at. Not sure how i would handle that much stress. He probably knows it's time but he's a proud man wouldn't wish that **** on my worst enemy
I think there’s some truth to this and recruiting absolutely matters. But I also think development matters immensely. Nelson Brands was a takedown machine in high school. At Iowa, not so much. Was his style to blame or was there a major development component?
Ben Keuter? Ethen Lofthouse? Alex Marinelli? Nick Moore? Sammy Brooks? Grant Gambrall? Tony Cassioppi? Patrick Kennedy? Mike Evans? Ryan Morningstar? Alex Tsirtsis? Josh Dziewa? Charlie Falck? Dan Leclere?
I think tons of those dudes had great offense in high school and abilities to extend it into college and reach great heights in the right coaching/training environment. Most of them did reach AA status, but how many reached the potential they had coming in? How many continued to be as offensive as they were in high school? I mostly see a bunch of dudes who primarily became “pressure” merchants rather than dynamic offensive scorers in college, but that’s not typically what they were in high school.
Even if they weren’t prolific or dynamic scorers in high school, that’s not a reason they shouldn’t reach their potential. Starocci wasn’t a dynamic scorer in college, but he certainly reached his potential and scored big team points. Prolific scorers or not, figure out how to get the best out of (and for) your guys. And when you consistently don’t, of course the recruiting suffers. It stems from the lack of development in the system.
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Very similar to PSU's? Dawg. Penn State may score 200 team points. They may have 9 current or future national champs in the lineup right now. That 2020 iowa team beat penn state in a dual 19-17, and that was Cael's 3rd worst team in 17 years. There are levels to this ****. 2021 scored 129 team points. That would be a miserable Penn State performance this year. They would underachieve by 50 points.
Agreed. I think you could have added Max Murin to the list as well. He had like 5 losses in high school, and was the OW of the PA state tournament. I always felt he was the kind of guy that was ready to go to another level, and Iowa was where he fit best. Same with Kaleb Young. His high school record was solid. 8 losses. Those losses were to guys like Cenzo and Labriola. His last high school match was beating Trent Hidlay in the state finals. Not blue clippers, but should have gotten more out of them. Especially given the fact that they were good dudes, who in my opinion were ready to jump levels.
Yep. The great ones don't waste a lot of time if they don't get what they want in the tie ups such as Cali or Spencer. They get out of it and have an arsenal without the need for hand fighting.
Another post that's dead-on, Tarp. Sadly.
Tom is too stubborn to get that it's too late to right the ship, and the poll on this threads now suggests that he's losing ground. There will be no miracle at Nationals, because the Hawks currently lack the horses, the ambition, and the attitude. You can see it in their wrestling.
We would all be served if everyone gets out pen and paper (REAL old school) and sends a letter to Beth via USPS, with a valid address and phone, whether you want to keep Tom or not. Emails and texts are easily dismissed, as are posts like mine on a forum like this one. People in positions of responsibility take it seriously when they get a valid letter from a real verifiable human from Hawkeye Nation that's sent through the U.S. mail.
Tip: Don't give her advice. Just tell her of your history as a Hawkeye wrestling fan, your disappointment and frustration, and how you are becoming disinclined to put your butt in a seat at Carver Hawkeye. Attendance is dropping, TV revenue will follow, and that means the money will disappear. I guarantee that she will do something about this problem. She's not a fool.
No matter what happens from here forward, the Brands' legacy is written in stone and will not be tarnished: multiple time NCAA champs, world champs, Olympic medalists (Tom gold, Terry bronze) as wrestlers, 4-time national champs as coaches. They are and always will be among the all-time greats in US wrestling history (probably second tier just behind the Cael-Gable-Hodge Mt. Rushmore tier). Regardless of that, criticism and assessment of their current job is certainly fair. People in this position often hang on far too long living on past accolades.
Terry's sideline optics are just awful. I'll guarantee you his mad man act doesn't play well with parents of prospective recruits.
Their legacy may very well be written in stone, but some of us old timers may remember the last years of Willie Mays. That was painful to watch even for a little kid.
What would you rather have, someone who at times goes overboard on the side, or multiple accusations of inappropriate racial overtones and also sexual abuse? Does not seem to be hurting that school one bit with parents.
Let's get real, people's perceptions of Iowa aren't great primarily because they see Terry's silly over the top act and hear Tom's inane press conferences.
Have you ever watched Tom Izzo? How about Manning at Nebraska. There are numerous coaches who act like lunatics on the sidelines. Now do Kirk Ferentz. You'd have to look hard to find anyone more respectful than him and half the know it all's on this board want him gone. Recruits and their parents don't give a single F how the coach acts on the sideline or in a press conference. What they do in more private dealings does. You want to blame Brands for his actual coaching - feel free. But sideline behavior is hardly a primary concern.
Tom Brands has never thrown a chair on the mat, just saying…
To be fair, Kem had some all-time greats in his ncaa brackets. Kem was a great hawk.
Only the greats throw an occasional chair. Bobby Knight threw one farther than Cael.
