Excellent breakdown of Iowa wrestling/Brands by Ben Askren
- Thread starter Evashevsky58
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I wish he didn’t make so much sense.
Btw, I often feel sheepish making my opinions known around here due to the black and white nature of their collective thought process. I grew up in Sheldon, and worked with their mom when in college and home for the summer. I was really proud of their accomplishments on the mat and as coaches for a bunch of years. But the sport has passed them by, imo. It’s time. I’m guessing me having/sharing that opinion paints me black with the family. And I don’t relish being seen that way by people I’ve admired and respected.
Btw, I often feel sheepish making my opinions known around here due to the black and white nature of their collective thought process. I grew up in Sheldon, and worked with their mom when in college and home for the summer. I was really proud of their accomplishments on the mat and as coaches for a bunch of years. But the sport has passed them by, imo. It’s time. I’m guessing me having/sharing that opinion paints me black with the family. And I don’t relish being seen that way by people I’ve admired and respected.
Honestly, he said nothing wrong there, and to some surprise it wasn’t a bash and hate on Iowa and the brands brothers type of deal, was very factual.
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Very insightful. Especially the part about the Brands having communication problems, and also that young wrestlers are watching videos of wrestling now a days and that is causing technique to change rapidly and this may be where the Brands aren’t adapting.
Spoiler alert: Askren doesn’t hate Iowa or the Brands brothers. He actually says he thinks they are both great men.
Nailed exactly what my brother and I have been saying for 2 years. I actually am a huge fan of Askren, he was a beast in his day. I love me some Brands brothers, I have cheered for them since the day they announced Tom was coming, but, his day is done, it is impossible to move forward with this coaching staff, I hope Beth has the stones to make that decision because I don’t think the Tom will leave willingly. I hope Beth and Tom can have an open discussion at the seasons end and that Tom understands that it’s time for change. Do what is right, look at John Smith, be that guy and not the stubborn as a mule guy.
Thanks for so many great memories Tom and Terry, but it is time to pass the torch before things get even worse, and I believe they will get quite a bit worse without a coaching change.
Thanks for so many great memories Tom and Terry, but it is time to pass the torch before things get even worse, and I believe they will get quite a bit worse without a coaching change.
And top 5 coaches of all time!
Wrestling on Iowa PBS was given credit for giving the state an advantage for allowing kids to watch more top level wrestling than others for years. But like Ben points out, everyone can watch everything now - and its great especially when you have family all over and can watch nieces and nephews wrestle youth-high school out of state - and we aren't evolving. After the PSU woodshedding there was so much talk online about the small changes their wrestlers were doing finishing their single legs, just how they are constantly evolving their technique, while we can't get a shot off.
Corby posting to bash Ben in 3....2....1...
About what ? Tell me Einstein
Hard not to like Askren. I thought that was really well done.
The level high school kids are coming into college is insane. Before having a Kolat level wrestler was a unicorn that happened once a decade. High school nationals and Ironman wins use to be the standard, now it's age bracket world medals and WWT placement. It definitely feels like recruits look at what they can get from Iowa is floor vs ceiling type improvement. HWC had some recent success, but it hasn't helped us much.
Huh - weren't you just posting last week that Ben has always been a troll and that he is attention deprived and just posting his videos because he wants the spotlight?
Also seem to remember you saying that he was the most arrogant High School wrestler that you have ever seen.
Was that you that made those post to bash Askren? I could be confused I suppose.
Yep I said that. Just not sure why Einstein thought I would be saying anything now. I have also said Ben has a brilliant wrestling mind and is entitled to his own opinion.
It would be really nice if the brands could just change thats all it takes. Just change the script and hire somebody who can scramble. Throw a bunch of changes to conditioning and see where it goes. It can't hurt to try. It was a really good video by askren and was telling about interpersonal communication skills. It's not that much of a stretch when you look at the age gap between coaches and athletes and how hard it would be to identify with young kids today
The Brands are like 8th in NCAA team titles, no?
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Ben just craving and seeking attention, since he's stuck in the house... I think that's the gist of what you've said multiple times.
You'll probably just see it as a fact (not your opinion). You might even caveat it with 'you don't blame him or see anything wrong with it' so obviously you aren't bashing.
So, Ben isn't seeking attention and isn't stuck in the house?
Sorry, the way you posted, I assumed you knew...
And I was wasn't talking to you
You two could go on and on. 98 will argue about anything devils advocate is his middle name. Unless you've a few days I would just move along
Great and fair discussion from Askren. Regarding his reference to recruiting, I wouldn’t say it’s accurate to state that PSU’s recruiting is below Iowa, OSU, and tOSU.
PSU’s average recruiting class rankings are skewed by the fact that they tend to go big every few years and have a loaded class rather than having a more balanced approach like Iowa, OSU, tOSU, etc.
For example 2021 is #1, 2022 #25, 2023 #5, 2024 #1, and 2025 #1 as well.
3 #1 classes in 5 years but the average is 6.6. Which falls below the 3 referenced schools. Definitely not indicative of their true recruiting ranking. Not blaming Ben, just pointing out the article he referenced must have been flawed.
PSU’s average recruiting class rankings are skewed by the fact that they tend to go big every few years and have a loaded class rather than having a more balanced approach like Iowa, OSU, tOSU, etc.
For example 2021 is #1, 2022 #25, 2023 #5, 2024 #1, and 2025 #1 as well.
3 #1 classes in 5 years but the average is 6.6. Which falls below the 3 referenced schools. Definitely not indicative of their true recruiting ranking. Not blaming Ben, just pointing out the article he referenced must have been flawed.
Are you saying you think he is craving attention, and being stuck in the house is causal? I am just suggesting you ask him
I have always believed recruiting ranking should be done in 2 ways. The first way being how it has been done, showing the haul for each year and then taking it at face value. Now, to me, the 2nd way is much more valuable as it shows you HOW much more important it is to the specific team. That based solely by NEED.
In the case of '22, PSU essentially gets no ranking because they only landed Haines as a top recruit. But, it doesn't show that he would fill in at 157 and make the Finals the very next season. It doesn't show that they already had RBY, Bartlett, Van Ness, Facundo, Starocci, Brooks, Dean and Kerkvliet. All of those, besides Dean, who was a transfer Finalist, were already top 10 lb4lb recruits.
The only thing that held PSU back is that they somehow had issues at 125 for a decent stretch of time, with Megaludis being the only guy over a relatively long stretch. Suriano got injured and left. They missed out on Lee. However, now, they probably have the best guy at the weight.
I just do NOT understand why any PSU fan would want to downplay recruiting. It is almost certainly the most vital part of DI wrestling and Sanderson has been the absolute best there has ever been in that department...
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Does it occur to anyone that some people make money with their online activities? I mean, I'm sure his wrestling school is still running so doing public relations is needed. It's good advertising for his own personal business.
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I have no issue with him. He was an incredible folkstyle wrestler and was transcendent in changing how "funk" has made folkstyle evolve. Watching him absolutely destroy Herbert was one of the most impressive things I have ever witnessed.
With that said, he has made a career out of craving attention. It was part of his schtick throughout his wrestling career, MMA career and damn near his entire time on FLO.
While being stuck mainly at home recovering, things like this are the best way to stay relevant and I don't blame him in the slightest. My only argument against him has been how clear and obvious his disdain for Iowa wrestling has been, for quite some time.
Once he stirred the nest enough with wrestling fans, especially Iowa fans, he took advantage and made a piece specific to the Brands. If anything, it was brilliant for his brand. However, I still wouldn't trust him one bit to truly be vested in what is "best" for Iowa moving forward...
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I am curious to hear what others think about recruiting. It has ALWAYS been important, but it seems to me to be so much more so these days. Essentially, you HAVE to get a tranche of top tenners about every year or so to end up on the top of the D1 heap AND you need to not load up on kids that are pretty much topped out on their skill development while still in HS.
These guys, plodders if you will, are good enough to win a bunch of D1 matches and probably AA a time or two, but will likely never wrestle on Saturday night. These days, you need at least about half of your roster to get to the finals if you are going to win nationals. Your roster cannot be "clogged" up with 5-8 of these very good, but not elite, guys.
Understood. "the best way to stay relevant and I don't blame him in the slightest"... never would've seen that one coming. Regardless, you don't trust him where Iowa interests are concerned, so no point in asking him.
100%. PSU has completely changed the DI wrestling landscape. DT knows the blueprint from his time there, but there simply isn't room for 2 teams to do what PSU is currently doing, when coupling recruiting with what the NLWC has become.
Short of spending more money, which I don't see how the current version of NIL through the clearinghouse would allow it, I just don't see OkState taking enough guys away from PSU to become truly competitive
Someone should break down how young a coach is plays into getting top recruits. I think when Cael came to psu he was young and could identify with wrestlers coming out of high school. DT is now doing the same. Part of the problem with the Brands is they don't seem to identify with younger guys and are sticking to their old school wrestling approach. This doesn't translate for top tier recruits unless that is what they are looking for. Jmo
I trust his track record more than I trust his using his best avenue to stay relevant and get clicks. Because I don't blame him and give him full credit and respect for marketing, doesn't mean I would ignore the negativity he has shown Iowa over the years.
In fact, didn't he basically say at one point that he wanted to go to Iowa and made it a point to smash them as much as possible for not showing interest? Would you really trust that person to somehow now want the absolute best for Iowa?
I don't want to disregard that belief completely. In a case where the kids are in the same weight range and the head coach is still going with them on the mat, I think it would be very compelling. However, I doubt that will really help DT much considering PSU had the guy in their room that knocked DT out at Trials, along with a slew of other top notch talent to wrestle with throughout.
I don't know if Carl wants to coach for 10 more years, but I would say age really wouldn't be a negative factor for them for probably another 10 years or so...
I agree that age won’t be a factor for Cael but his situation is different than pretty much any other aging coaches. At this point the program is a boulder rolling down then hill and it’s going to take something crazy to stop it.
By that I mean he has a steady pipeline of NLWC world team members that are also the draw. The next wave of Levi, MM, Van Ness, Luke, Blaze, Duke, etc will carry them through 10 more years at least. Hard to disrupt that at this point so it’s going to take another juggernaut.
Trust has very little to do with. Talent evalutation, recruiting, development, and winning are the equation. I would trust Askren. We need greater talented depth in the room. Iron sharpens Iron. I respect anyone who can train and make it throught a college wrestling season, but those hard working guys don't make the difference in development and competition.
Just restating where Askren ranked them.
It amuses me that some people here are so blinded by their anti-Askren bias ("But he just wants attention! But he hates Iowa!") that they can't objectively listen to what he is saying and evaluate whether it is true or not.
Imagine for a minute you were reading a transcript of what Askren said and you didn't know who said it. After reading this anonymous transcript would you be able to objectively determine if you agreed or disagree with it?
Imagine for a minute you were reading a transcript of what Askren said and you didn't know who said it. After reading this anonymous transcript would you be able to objectively determine if you agreed or disagree with it?
It's simple. I would never trust an anonymous source as having my program"s best interest at heart. And I would find some reason to question the motivation behind publishing anonymously, like are they afraid to face the backlash, or something.
1. Dan Gable, Iowa 15
2. Cael Sanderson, Penn State 12
3. EC Gallagher, OSU 11
4. Art Griffith, OSU 8
5. Myron Roderick, OSU 7
6. Harold Nichols, ISU 6
7. John Smith, OSU 5
8. Tom Brands, Iowa 4
I still think DT gets there in three years. Cael taught him the ropes and he's going to make it competitive.
