OT ww2 fans....continued

b-flag · Feb 17, 2026

one of the traits about hitler that i find confusing, to a degree, is his relationship with his fascist brothers mussolini & franco. usually not tolerant of hapless types, hitler kept these two close despite their not being proper partners.
it should have been obvious italy was a paper tiger at best. barely able to defeat ethiopia....then botched invasion of albania & the north africa debacle....why did hitler keep pulling il duce's fat from the fire.
even more perplexing, to me, is franco. franco offered to join germany in the war....and again in a conference with hitler just before the invasion of poland......but only under conditions hitler could not abide.....tons of material for war...and food to help feed a prostrate country after the civil war
hitler let franco get away without any pact.....but why did hitler...after france...just invade spain...then on to gibraltar? shut off the mediterranean? this would have changed the whole dynamic in north africa among other things
was hitler too gentlemanly with his fascist cohorts?

JohnnySolo · Feb 17, 2026

Every evil doer has a flaw.

18IsTheMan · Feb 17, 2026

The war's trajectory would have been very different had Hitler not focused on exterminating the Jews and instead allocated those resources to fighting the war.

ThinnyJ · Feb 17, 2026

18IsTheMan said:
The war's trajectory would have been very different had Hitler not focused on exterminating the Jews and instead allocated those resources to fighting the war.

Unfortunately, most of what we know about the limits of the human body came from experiments on the Jewish people. I can't fathom what evil must be inside of a human being to do those things to another individual.

Gamecock Jacque · Feb 17, 2026

JohnnySolo said:
Every evil doer has a flaw.

Hate to break it to you but you and I have multiple flaws.

JohnnySolo · Feb 17, 2026

Wasn't speaking in absolutes. Only a Sith does that. But by your logic I am super evil. Just saying in his attempt to cast evil over the entire land he was exposed by a fatal flaw in his reasoning. Also hind site is 20/20. I've run out of clichés.

Harvard Gamecock · Feb 17, 2026

b-flag said:
one of the traits about hitler that i find confusing, to a degree, is his relationship with his fascist brothers mussolini & franco. usually not tolerant of hapless types, hitler kept these two close despite their not being proper partners.
it should have been obvious italy was a paper tiger at best. barely able to defeat ethiopia....then botched invasion of albania & the north africa debacle....why did hitler keep pulling il duce's fat from the fire. Mussolini publicly backed the invasion by Germany into Austria, at which point Hitler declared "I will never forgot this, ever". Thus cementing the AXIS alliance. In addition, Italy would provide buffer from the south of Germany of any planned Allie incursions.
even more perplexing, to me, is franco. franco offered to join germany in the war....and again in a conference with hitler just before the invasion of poland......but only under conditions hitler could not abide.....tons of material for war...and food to help feed a prostrate country after the civil war
hitler let franco get away without any pact.....but why did hitler...after france...just invade spain...then on to gibraltar? shut off the mediterranean? this would have changed the whole dynamic in north africa among other things Franco kept stalling for time by (to not join the war) employing a strategy of non belligerence, and by sending the Blue Divison to fight against the Soviets.

b-flag said:
was hitler too gentlemanly with his fascist cohorts? Hitler could sometimes demonstrate a calm and focused persona, in attempts to cloak his incurable narcissistic rage

b-flag · Feb 17, 2026

ai:dr

Bubba Fett · Feb 17, 2026

b-flag said:
one of the traits about hitler that i find confusing, to a degree, is his relationship with his fascist brothers mussolini & franco. usually not tolerant of hapless types, hitler kept these two close despite their not being proper partners.
it should have been obvious italy was a paper tiger at best. barely able to defeat ethiopia....then botched invasion of albania & the north africa debacle....why did hitler keep pulling il duce's fat from the fire.
even more perplexing, to me, is franco. franco offered to join germany in the war....and again in a conference with hitler just before the invasion of poland......but only under conditions hitler could not abide.....tons of material for war...and food to help feed a prostrate country after the civil war
hitler let franco get away without any pact.....but why did hitler...after france...just invade spain...then on to gibraltar? shut off the mediterranean? this would have changed the whole dynamic in north africa among other things
was hitler too gentlemanly with his fascist cohorts?

Spain wasn't worth the strategic cost at the time, is the short answer.

The Nazis didn't occupy all of France, and were stretched to hold what they did. Spain would have been logistically much harder. Spain was a mess after their civil war, but occupying it would have required shifting significant resources, and Franco was prepared to resist. Franco had already deployed Spanish forces along the border.

The Pyrenees mountains were a significant factor. There is a fascinating documentary about the one railway pass through the Pyrenees, and the station at the French border. The Spanish made sure their rail gauge was different and they mined the tunnel through the mountain. Franco was ready to blow it up if Hitler made a move.

If I recall correctly, Hitler did think about going into Spain in late 1942, but things were starting to turn on him by then. A neutral Spain was at least strategically useful, kept giving Germany some vital exports, and didn't give the Allies a base.

Go Gamecocks · Feb 17, 2026

18IsTheMan said:
The war's trajectory would have been very different had Hitler not focused on exterminating the Jews and instead allocated those resources to fighting the war.

Well he used Jewish slave labor to fuel his war machine. It was free labor that gave him some relief from the economical cost of the war.

Go Gamecocks · Feb 17, 2026

b-flag said:
...his relationship with his fascist brothers mussolini & franco. usually not tolerant of hapless types, hitler kept these two close despite their not being proper partners.

Dunno, but he was focused on humilating those that had humiliated Germany in WWI & the Treaty of Versailles.

Go Gamecocks · Feb 17, 2026

Bubba Fett said:
Spain wasn't worth the strategic cost at the time, is the short answer.

The Nazis didn't occupy all of France, and were stretched to hold what they did.

Seems timing was also an issue: Nazis were focusing on the British Isles, which became a big set back when they lost the Battle of Britain.

Skuddy · Feb 17, 2026

b-flag said:
one of the traits about hitler that i find confusing, to a degree, is his relationship with his fascist brothers mussolini & franco. usually not tolerant of hapless types, hitler kept these two close despite their not being proper partners.
it should have been obvious italy was a paper tiger at best. barely able to defeat ethiopia....then botched invasion of albania & the north africa debacle....why did hitler keep pulling il duce's fat from the fire.
even more perplexing, to me, is franco. franco offered to join germany in the war....and again in a conference with hitler just before the invasion of poland......but only under conditions hitler could not abide.....tons of material for war...and food to help feed a prostrate country after the civil war
hitler let franco get away without any pact.....but why did hitler...after france...just invade spain...then on to gibraltar? shut off the mediterranean? this would have changed the whole dynamic in north africa among other things
was hitler too gentlemanly with his fascist cohorts?

I am trying to figure out how you will turn this into a Trump, MAGA and conservative bashing thread. I am sure the hook is in there somewhere but will admit that you actually sound sane.....so far.

Gamecock Jacque · Feb 17, 2026

JohnnySolo said:
Wasn't speaking in absolutes. Only a Sith does that. But by your logic I am super evil. Just saying in his attempt to cast evil over the entire land he was exposed by a fatal flaw in his reasoning. Also hind site is 20/20. I've run out of clichés.

Could you expound on what you mean by "A fatal flaw?
If you can.

b-flag · Feb 17, 2026

Skuddy said:
I am trying to figure out how you will turn this into a Trump, MAGA and conservative bashing thread. I am sure the hook is in there somewhere but will admit that you actually sound sane.....so far.

well, thanks, i think.
i do take history seriously
what we are going through now is not history...yet

CreekSnake · Feb 17, 2026

The two biggest strategic blunders I can think of are 1)Germany’s invasion of Russia and 2)Bush’s Iraq Invasion.

Uscg1984 · Feb 17, 2026

Bubba Fett said:
Spain wasn't worth the strategic cost at the time, is the short answer.

The Nazis didn't occupy all of France, and were stretched to hold what they did. Spain would have been logistically much harder. Spain was a mess after their civil war, but occupying it would have required shifting significant resources, and Franco was prepared to resist. Franco had already deployed Spanish forces along the border.

The Pyrenees mountains were a significant factor. There is a fascinating documentary about the one railway pass through the Pyrenees, and the station at the French border. The Spanish made sure their rail gauge was different and they mined the tunnel through the mountain. Franco was ready to blow it up if Hitler made a move.

If I recall correctly, Hitler did think about going into Spain in late 1942, but things were starting to turn on him by then. A neutral Spain was at least strategically useful, kept giving Germany some vital exports, and didn't give the Allies a base.

All good points. Germany was simply stretched too thin to seriously consider an invasion of Spain. Despite the early success of Germany's blitzkrieg operations, the truth is its army wasn't very mechanized - it is estimated that 80% of Germany's army depended on horses for propulsion. Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of USSR, employed 750,000 horses, for example. That's not a recipe for success in 1940s warfare, certainly not once the Allies fully ramped up their industrial war machine. It was likely doomed from the start, but Hitler's ill-advised invasion of the USSR certainly sped things up.

Gamecock Rev · Feb 17, 2026

JohnnySolo said:
Wasn't speaking in absolutes. Only a Sith does that. But by your logic I am super evil. Just saying in his attempt to cast evil over the entire land he was exposed by a fatal flaw in his reasoning. Also hind site is 20/20. I've run out of clichés.

Well to be honest, we are all capable of being super evil as you said. The Bible states that "the heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9) Reformed theology states that man is totally depraved. Of course, the answer for out condition is found in Jesus Christ.

CreekSnake · Feb 17, 2026

Looking at my family it’s incredible what the WW2 generation did.Just in my family I had a grandfather that was a tail gunner in a B25 over Germany,had an Uncle in the 3rd Army in the Battle of the Bulge,had an uncle who was on. S Destroyer at Iwo Jima and Okinawa dodging Kamaksze’s and most incredibly had a 2nd cousin Felton J Outland was a 17 yr aboard the Indianapolis when it was torpedoed and was actually the last guy pulled out of the water.Not a single one considered himself a hero and only reluctantly would even talk about their experience.
What’s remarkable is just about every family has similar stories.My group the boomers doesn’t compare.

Harvard Gamecock · Feb 18, 2026

Skuddy said:
I am trying to figure out how you will turn this into a Trump, MAGA and conservative bashing thread. I am sure the hook is in there

CreekSnake · Feb 18, 2026

Johnnysurf · Feb 18, 2026

b-flag said:
one of the traits about hitler that i find confusing, to a degree, is his relationship with his fascist brothers mussolini & franco. usually not tolerant of hapless types, hitler kept these two close despite their not being proper partners.
it should have been obvious italy was a paper tiger at best. barely able to defeat ethiopia....then botched invasion of albania & the north africa debacle....why did hitler keep pulling il duce's fat from the fire.
even more perplexing, to me, is franco. franco offered to join germany in the war....and again in a conference with hitler just before the invasion of poland......but only under conditions hitler could not abide.....tons of material for war...and food to help feed a prostrate country after the civil war
hitler let franco get away without any pact.....but why did hitler...after france...just invade spain...then on to gibraltar? shut off the mediterranean? this would have changed the whole dynamic in north africa among other things
was hitler too gentlemanly with his fascist cohorts?

I believe he was stretched to thin. He seemed to be more concerned with the Bolsheviks who were at his back door and had already killed millions of people.

Harvard Gamecock · Feb 18, 2026

Johnnysurf said:
I believe he was stretched to thin. He seemed to be more concerned with the Bolsheviks who were at his back door and had already killed millions of people.

Hitler invaded Russia for what he called "Living Space" for Germany. Hitler's designs on eastern europe and Russia was not to conquer other countries per se, but to expand Germany's borders, and populate the newly conquered areas with a German population. This would also involve either enslaving or exterminating Slavic populations.

CreekSnake · Feb 18, 2026

Craig Symonds,a Pacific War expert at Annapolis contends two things won WW2.US Industrial might and Russian manpower.Time and time again Russia has employed the meat grinder approach and outlasted its foes.

Go Gamecocks · Feb 19, 2026

CreekSnake said:
The two biggest strategic blunders I can think of are 1)Germany’s invasion of Russia and 2)Bush’s Iraq Invasion.

Russian invasion of Ukraine. The losses are mind numbing.

Harvard Gamecock · Feb 19, 2026

Go Gamecocks said:
Russian invasion of Ukraine. The losses are mind numbing.

Not only Russian troops, N. Korea sent troops to support Russia, over 6,000 casualties. Close to 50% casualty rate just for DPRK.
Insanity.

OT ww2 fans....continued

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