Ben has been instrumental in how wrestling has changed over the years. He lead the way (with Mike Eierman) of just calling scrambling wrestling. Ben didn't have quickness but wanted to win, so he developed a style that didn't require speed. He also emphasized pinning while everyone else was worried about takedowns. Mat wrestling from the top position isn't emphasized in most clubs, so it is an area that growth is still possible. It is much of what we see with the PSU program. The guys at PSU seem to improve as mat wrestlers as they advance grade. I am speaking of a general trend not absolutes. Yes of course you get stronger as you mature, but if that is where you spend the majority of your time you might be missing the boat on skill development. Ben is and has always been critical of the "do the same stuff harder and faster" approach to coaching. I don't think anybody is serious about Ben having the health or desire to coach at Iowa but rather opening the door for individuals who approach wrestling from a similar perspective. There is a place for all ideas in wrestling, and Iowa would be well served to allow different approaches into the program imo. Group think is limiting no matter how accomplished the thought originator happens to be. I think Iowa is caught in a cycle of group think because you have identical twins running things (two guys who really know the game) and a couple of yes men as assistants. Iowa needs a guy with the Askren type of mentality on staff and in a position where he actually gives input rather than lip service. I question whether this could ever happen with Brands as the boss. Cael let Thomas Gilman into his fold to teach many of the things the Brands has instilled in him to the PSU guys. I think one of Cael's greatest strengths is realizing that he doesn't know everything. Rip away.
“Why aren’t some of these college kids getting any better?”
- Thread starter WahlbergTheGreat
- Start date
So if you think the Brands brothers are the problem and are control freaks then how would new assistants help?
A person doesn’t need to have physical abilities to impart wisdom. Especially when they once did have those physical abilities. I’m guessing he’ll never be in a position, physically, to actually coach college wrestling again, but that doesn’t mean his observations aren’t valid. What he’s saying makes a lot of sense to me.
Agree. No return on time spent grinding, especially off-season, at best; substantial diminished return in the vast majority of cases at worst. In all cases that time better spent on situational wrestling skill development to improve areas demonstrated as needing it.
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I don't think they will help enough to fix the problem. I just don't see Iowa giving the Brands the boot, so bringing someone on staff that gets 5% input is better than 0%. The only real solution is changing the leadership at the top of the program. I have said before that the Brands brothers are both great coaches but they are not the type to give up control. In a perfect world you would have a Tom Brands type and a Ben Askren type respectfully coexisting in the same room. This isn't going to happen.
Brands' brothers hold grudges and have a way of pissing off ex-wrestlers and a lot of others. You would think they would be smart enough to at the very least "play the game," or embrace Askren, Big Game, etc. Mend fences with people who might help them.
Listening to what hes saying and acting like he should be on staff are two totally different things. I'm saying he can't be on any staff with his health
I'm just glad all these Penn St fans have all the answers for Iowa wrestling. You guys have a plan
I mean we do all call you weekly for advice. All the credit to you oh great giver of advice! Cael mentioned yesterday that without your sound guidance he wouldn't be where he is today. I'm just here living in the great simulation that you have created.I'm just glad all these Penn St fans have all the answers for Iowa wrestling. You guys have a plan
I've said that and I 100% stand by that. New assistants are not the answer because he WILL NOT change. Either rip the band aid off or keep it on for another season to lessen the buyout and leave no doubt how bad the product is. Pretty good chance next season will get really ugly. If you think about it from an AD perspective its a win-win to allow Brands another just to 100% prove it to everyone that he doesn't have it anymore.
I mean sucks for us fans and I am far from a patient person, but some on this board really need another year to have their face mashed into the reality of Brands aint it anymore. One more year allows Beth a luxury of no doubt. Brands fails its on him and not her being premature of firing a legendary coach.
Actually Penn State fans, Ohio State fans, Iowa State fans, Ok State fans, Minnesota fans, et al all hope that absolutely no changes are made for Iowa wrestling. That alone should be telling.I'm just glad all these Penn St fans have all the answers for Iowa wrestling. You guys have a plan
Jealousy is worse than cancer because it never kills you
And that's why they continually post about change some real reverse psychology going on I guess
My eyes are just burning from jealousy!Jealousy is worse than cancer because it never kills you
If it ain’t broke then don’t fix it!And that's why they continually post about change some real reverse psychology going on I guess
So if you think the Brands brothers are the problem and are control freaks, then how would new assistants help?
I think this is a valid point. At this point in their career, TnT is not going to embrace new assistants, new training, new ideas, or outside the box. They dont have the mindset to go that route.
Do I think they should be fired? Probably not UNLESS we have a home run hire that can raise $$ . WE need to be careful what we wish for. (I remember when we fired Tom Davis.)
Tom talks about accountability all the time. I think Beth needs to meet with him and hold him accountable. Why have the recent teams, and specifically this year, been so bad compared to our standards? What are the reasons? What adjustments can be made, what factors play into what's going on-- what support can the University provide to help in the success?
Something along those lines.
I think this is a valid point. At this point in their career, TnT is not going to embrace new assistants, new training, new ideas, or outside the box. They dont have the mindset to go that route.
Do I think they should be fired? Probably not UNLESS we have a home run hire that can raise $$ . WE need to be careful what we wish for. (I remember when we fired Tom Davis.)
Tom talks about accountability all the time. I think Beth needs to meet with him and hold him accountable. Why have the recent teams, and specifically this year, been so bad compared to our standards? What are the reasons? What adjustments can be made, what factors play into what's going on-- what support can the University provide to help in the success?
Something along those lines.
You re acting like he needs to live like bubble boy for the rest of his life. I know a girl who got a double lung transplant and she runs in Tough mudder competitions and coaches one of the best girls bball teams in the state, she may not be stepping in to show them how to run a full court press but she’s still a hell of a coach. Ben isn’t going to be rolling around with guys on the mat but he can definitely coach. You think Dressar and Goodale are on the mat rolling with guys everyday? He’s not even a year post op, he’s going to continue to get stronger with time and I’m sure now that he can’t physically wrestle that coaching will be in his future.
And people want him to be the coach next year
. He's said himself what he can and currently can't doI also don't believe they're control freaks and against changing how things are done. That's what everyone says and most don't know what goes on day to day. Ask athletes over the last 10 years and they will say Tom & Terry have definitely changed things in the room .It was question for kings because that's what hes said .
I think they opened up to some change when Mark Perry came back to coach HWC for those 3 years. so its not impossible. IMO mostly because Tom hadn't won a title for so long they opened up or hint of desperation. However was that really opening up or more so the injection of Spencer & the YG crew? How much of what was what?
But that being said after winning again it feels Tom has doubled down on he knows it all again. Is there another round of humble pie? He really seems more combative and a broken record in his pressers anymore.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like it bothers you at all.
I have no issues with Ben saying whatever he wants but let's not act like he's not doing it for attention. I would rather listen to Ben bash Iowa then read the graphs you post honestly. I don't need a seizure
To me it’s just another reason why replacing the assistants would have little affect on how the program is run. TnT are responsible for the intensity and focus of practices, not the assistants.
You seem to keep deflecting the content of his messages by reminding us he’s in no position to take over the team. But he’s spot on with the messaging, imo.And people want him to be the coach next year
It’s felt like those changes in the last 10 years have been made reluctantly and after falling behind.
Which you would only know by reading the paragraphs I write. Don't be so coy.
Maybe a bit of a
and 
situation going on here, if most recruits are/continue to be drawn to or pursued by Iowa based on having a TnT-like old school mindset. Maybe Bachmans are that way. Maybe the Raineys thought better.
Forgive him please, he left University in Illinois after a couple of years for a trade that involved hanging outside of buildings. No confirmation on how many times he may have fallen, but that could explain the migraines.
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I cheered sooo hard the night he gtfko in that UFC fight. But I still think he’s right on this issue.If Iowa wrestlers can’t scramble then Askren can’t take a punch.
I have an awesome plan. Find the next Cael Sanderson before anyone else and do what he says .I'm just glad all these Penn St fans have all the answers for Iowa wrestling. You guys have a plan
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I also don't believe they're control freaks and against changing how things are done. That's what everyone says and most don't know what goes on day to day. Ask athletes over the last 10 years and they will say Tom & Terry have definitely changed things in the room .
I disagree strongly on the first 7 words and agree on the rest of what you say-- Those same athletes that say they have changed things would also say they are big-time control freaks.
I know not a collegiate team, but they control Spencer Lee in almost every way regarding wrestling. Who he works out with, even at OTC, he isn't allowed to go hard with anyone other then Iowas guys with him. He is controlled on a different level than anyone else on the team-- and that's not a knock--maybe he needs it, but it's an example of how they operate.
As a matter of fact, I bet it's more likely than not you could find quite a few recent or current athletes(if they could talk--blink if TnT are control freaks) who would say they are the definition of control freaks. I'm going to look up the definition and see if their pictures are there.
I disagree strongly on the first 7 words and agree on the rest of what you say-- Those same athletes that say they have changed things would also say they are big-time control freaks.
I know not a collegiate team, but they control Spencer Lee in almost every way regarding wrestling. Who he works out with, even at OTC, he isn't allowed to go hard with anyone other then Iowas guys with him. He is controlled on a different level than anyone else on the team-- and that's not a knock--maybe he needs it, but it's an example of how they operate.
As a matter of fact, I bet it's more likely than not you could find quite a few recent or current athletes(if they could talk--blink if TnT are control freaks) who would say they are the definition of control freaks. I'm going to look up the definition and see if their pictures are there.
I had a plan for Iowa a few months before Ok St. hired Taylor but you all, aside from my man @el dub, laughed at the idea because David didn't have experience.Still cracks me up to be honest and gives me a huge sigh of relief Iowa wasnt as smart as Ok St. to break the bank on him. As for Iowas future, I don't see a single person out there right now that could recruit at the level of Cael and Taylor on a consistent basis so I'd just roll with the Brands brothers for awhile longer. The next big "thing" is now wrestling at PSU and has a bright international career that will keep him occupied for awhile. So basically what I'm saying is that if Iowa replaces Brands anytime soon, there really isn't anyone I fear....not JB, not Spencer, not Kem or even Jason Nolf.I'm just glad all these Penn St fans have all the answers for Iowa wrestling. You guys have a plan
It was widely reported that Brands lost the Basset bros after he supposedly told the family “nobody tells me how to run this program.”I also don't believe they're control freaks and against changing how things are done. That's what everyone says and most don't know what goes on day to day. Ask athletes over the last 10 years and they will say Tom & Terry have definitely changed things in the room .
I disagree strongly on the first 7 words and agree on the rest of what you say-- Those same athletes that say they have changed things would also say they are big-time control freaks.
I know not a collegiate team, but they control Spencer Lee in almost every way regarding wrestling. Who he works out with, even at OTC, he isn't allowed to go hard with anyone other then Iowas guys with him. He is controlled on a different level than anyone else on the team-- and that's not a knock--maybe he needs it, but it's an example of how they operate.
As a matter of fact, I bet it's more likely than not you could find quite a few recent or current athletes(if they could talk--blink if TnT are control freaks) who would say they are the definition of control freaks. I'm going to look up the definition and see if their pictures are there.
But he’s not a control freak. He doesn’t have his literal identical twin running practice or anything.
Nothing against you but you don't know what you're talking about.I also don't believe they're control freaks and against changing how things are done. That's what everyone says and most don't know what goes on day to day. Ask athletes over the last 10 years and they will say Tom & Terry have definitely changed things in the room .
I disagree strongly on the first 7 words and agree on the rest of what you say-- Those same athletes that say they have changed things would also say they are big-time control freaks.
I know not a collegiate team, but they control Spencer Lee in almost every way regarding wrestling. Who he works out with, even at OTC, he isn't allowed to go hard with anyone other then Iowas guys with him. He is controlled on a different level than anyone else on the team-- and that's not a knock--maybe he needs it, but it's an example of how they operate.
As a matter of fact, I bet it's more likely than not you could find quite a few recent or current athletes(if they could talk--blink if TnT are control freaks) who would say they are the definition of control freaks. I'm going to look up the definition and see if their pictures are there.
That's not what happened at all. You believe the rumors that fit your narrative.
Do tell us what happened, insider. Share some of that wisdom you desperately want everyone to think you have.