“Why aren’t some of these college kids getting any better?”
- Thread starter WahlbergTheGreat
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Makes sense to me. And seems to answer some questions about Iowa’s current state of affairs. Thanks for the link.
He couldn't wait to call us out directly after beating around the bush for 10 minutes.
BTW, he ain't coaching in a college room.
BTW, he ain't coaching in a college room.
I was never a Ben Askren fan (I actually enjoyed him getting knocked out in like 5 seconds in MMA), but since his medical struggles occurred I have started watching some of his videos on youtube and he has grown on me some. He makes a lot of good points (and usually gets his digs in on Iowa) and I think he really does have a great wrestling mind. While I know he will never be a D1 coach now, I honestly think he would be really useful to Iowa wrestling in an advisory role and could steer a lot of great recruits our way if we would be open to taking his advice on some things. One thing I have learned through years of coaching multiple sports is you will struggle to ever truly be a good coach if you let your ego get in the way. I always looked for ways to practice and play better and that almost always comes from other people who are doing it better than you currently are.
Just watching that and it makes sense to me.
I really like the idea of journaling your skill development, or perhaps it is the
lack of a certain skill?
Being a problem solver, I liked how Askren broke it down into baby steps.
How do I get to a single leg?
I think you have to go back to stance and how you are moving. If you want to expose your opponent into a position favorable to getting to your shot, ask yourself, how do I do it? Not rocket science.
You hear a lot of “move your feet!” Yet you don’t see it. It’s as simple as moving in a circle around your opponent, and then circling the other way.
Hesitating within your circle and changing your level on the hesitation.
Just spitballing.
lack of a certain skill?
Being a problem solver, I liked how Askren broke it down into baby steps.
How do I get to a single leg?
I think you have to go back to stance and how you are moving. If you want to expose your opponent into a position favorable to getting to your shot, ask yourself, how do I do it? Not rocket science.
You hear a lot of “move your feet!” Yet you don’t see it. It’s as simple as moving in a circle around your opponent, and then circling the other way.
Hesitating within your circle and changing your level on the hesitation.
Just spitballing.
He's truly factually wrong about how much strength you can gain. It doesn't matter if they are already adults. Look at the Iowa football program. It's not a little gain in strength, but impressive.
I lifted pretty consistent throughout my early life and I actually peaked in strength at 38, lol.
I lifted pretty consistent throughout my early life and I actually peaked in strength at 38, lol.
I think there are some definite holes in his logic. You’ve grown up training to be a d1 wrestler, so you are already maxed out in strength, conditioning, and toughness? But for some reason you’re still light years behind technically? Some kid that has been going to AWA from age 5-18 isn’t already really, really good technically?
I think the more sound logic is that strength and conditioning are more finite skills, whereas technical development is more infinite bound.
But I have to agree with his point about conditioning in July. Always have thought the intensive camps are a complete waste of time.
I think the more sound logic is that strength and conditioning are more finite skills, whereas technical development is more infinite bound.
But I have to agree with his point about conditioning in July. Always have thought the intensive camps are a complete waste of time.
100% agree but I think his point is useful strength for wrestling. You can definitely keep getting stronger but at some point you pass the threshold where it’s much of a useful influence on your wrestling
I thought the same thing and I am proof as well, but I dont know enough about how strength affects wrestling to argue with him.
Mitch Mesenbrink learned under his Dad, Ben and now Cael. He will one day be the hottest commodity for schools searching for a coach. I'm looking forward to MSU passing him off as a nobody (like he did with Taylor) because of experience and some other school like maybe ISU scooping him up. Unless of course, Mitch will be in PSUs long term plans that is...
The Iowa football team and wrestling are pretty unrelated because of weight class. Gaining a bunch of muscle but moving up 3 weight classes cancels itself out unless you are in the 285 lb. class. Functional strength is more valuable to a wrestler. Skill development is far more important. Askren is one of the best wrestling minds anywhere. You don't create a Mitchell Mesenbrink in a weight room.
It looks that way, which is a real bummer.
I would be pleased at having a coaching staff that doesn’t treat some of the best clubs as enemies. I guess that goes for former Hawkeyes, too.
He's such a weird one off. Absolutely horrible athlete that ended up discovering a sport where he could do well. So many wrestlers that can't chew gum and walk at the same time and he's the lead example.
If listening to this video for 5 minutes doesn't convince you that Askren has the mind to be a great college coach, then you should stop watching college wrestling.
Health issues aside, he should at least be brought on in a consulting role. He doesn't need to be rolling around on the mat every day in order to impart his wisdom.
Put aside the petty "Oh but he hates Iowa" mentality and get him on the staff if you are serious about changing things.
Health issues aside, he should at least be brought on in a consulting role. He doesn't need to be rolling around on the mat every day in order to impart his wisdom.
Put aside the petty "Oh but he hates Iowa" mentality and get him on the staff if you are serious about changing things.
Great athletes do not always make great wrestlers. Wrestling is a niche sport. Ben was very good at postioning and could scramble with any one. Iowa has NO ONE in his league to scramble. I dont know about great athletes either. Iown needs a coach that can coach to each wrestlers strengths TNT are a 1 size fits all staff and our way or you are gone. The product shows that.IMO
Well... the Brand's Brothers ain't going to do that, and Askren ain't going to come there. It's a two-way street, and right now nobody's going either direction.
From a coaching standpoint, I like a wrestler that wasn’t a great athlete. Look at KJ, amazing athlete, but terrible coach. Sometimes their athleticism can take them so far that they don’t ever understand the fine details. Askren is the opposite. He was a bad athlete so really had to figure out the nitty gritty of positions. It’s that type of knowledge that I think would make a great coach.
Of course, the point is that athletes that age can gain very significant strength. Goodness, I've seen it all the decades I've watched the sport. The difference between their freshman and senior physiques has sometimes been eye opening. The increase in power while watching them wrestling was unmistakable.
He'd probably have to have been asked to say no. However his on going stance on IA and TnT don't invite asking the question.
Yeah. We’d have to change coaches in order to see him in any sort of official advisory role with the hawks (if that’s even a possibility).
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I wonder what Kem Dawg’s opinion is?
I thought it was a good listen. Shows he's a thinker looking for ways to improve and understand the process, doesn't matter to me if I agree with each point. Simple fact he's reading those or other books tells me alot. But while every wrestler/human can improve skill development at any age, the challenge for a wrestling coach is you have 4ish years, wrestlers are taking classes, social life, and who knows what personal/family challenges. The most critical part IMO is still recruiting, and being able to identify AND get guys who ALREADY have the 'right mind', whether from genetics or early mind development, to be able to rapidly learn/adjust on the fly. Fast firing, problem solving, flexible, but calm minds unafraid to fail. Good body type/athleticism a very nice bonus. But without that type of mind ALREADY, growth curve and elite potential are much more limited even if you followed his other good suggestions, especially in a few years with all that students have going on.
Yep, you're right. Spence Lee was a terrible wrestler and couldn't scramble......
It's clear he has a great mind for wrestling and the success of kids he has coached proves it. He obviously has taken his shots at Iowa in the past, probably a mix of personal feelings, him liking to troll and facts. When I look at Iowa style under Brands vs a number of other programs, especially the #1 program I absolutely see the following in regards to technical ability and skills. Brands Iowa style is often very lacking in its display of technical wrestling. You don't see a wide variety of skills and you see worse execution of the skills they do have. How many guys have we had that can't finish well, can't turn, can't ride, can't get off bottom? It's a broken record. Look at pins, pinning combinations, big moves, scrambling ability. Hand fighting is the skill this system hangs it's hat on and while yes it's important if you have nothing to follow it up, nothing to go along with it, you get the boring ineffective product we often see vs decent competition.
Ok Spencer was GREAT. We all get that we hear it all the time on this board. He’s Jesus walking. If you are accepting the product on the mat right now I have some koolaid for you to drink in Guyana. I think TNT have done a fabulous job but you can’t be so short sided to think they are not past there prime. Ben may be a Iowa hater but he makes a point like it or not time for some outside influence.
I dont think Ben is wrong, nor do I think he is an Iowa hater. He has always said it like it is. He is critical of alot of programs/coaches/ wrestlers. This board has mentioned several times that Iowa is still a top program in college wrestling. A 3rd string quarterback throws a pick during some fourth quarter mop up time, nobody bats an eye. The starter in the Rose Bowl does the same thing, they may question his decision making. Can't have it both ways. Iowa is going to be under more scrutiny and have more criticism than 99% of programs. And right now, its justified. I would be more concerned when they stop talking about the program.
Honestly who cares if Askren is critical of Iowa? Is he not speaking reality when he says Iowa guys don't shoot or are bad in scrambles? The criticism seems rooted in reality and of course, Iowa is the most high profile wrestling program out there, so it's going to attract attention both positive and negative.
By the way at the end of the video Askren says what he loves to do most in the world is COACH WRESTLING. The guy is a genius when it comes to mental mindset and would be a very valuable asset to any athletics program.
By the way at the end of the video Askren says what he loves to do most in the world is COACH WRESTLING. The guy is a genius when it comes to mental mindset and would be a very valuable asset to any athletics program.
By many accounts, isn't it actually Max that is the true "coach" in their academy? Hasn't Ben basically been a figurehead most of the time? On top of that isn't it really Mesenbrink's dad that is the gel and runs one of the locations?
Two observations.
First, he has a very nice kitchen. Subzero fridge, leather bound barstools, beautiful iron-wrought light fixture. *Chef's kiss*
Second, there's a quality and nuance of thought that few coaches in the sport can match, certainly light years beyond the "We have to score" and "We need to get better" pap you hear at the Iowa post-meet press conferences.
When and if his health permits him to coach in a college room, a school would be lucky to have him.
First, he has a very nice kitchen. Subzero fridge, leather bound barstools, beautiful iron-wrought light fixture. *Chef's kiss*
Second, there's a quality and nuance of thought that few coaches in the sport can match, certainly light years beyond the "We have to score" and "We need to get better" pap you hear at the Iowa post-meet press conferences.
When and if his health permits him to coach in a college room, a school would be lucky to have him.
Askren makes the same point in the video that half the guys on this board make. The “Iowa Hater” makes the same point that many (most?) Iowa fans here do. That doesn’t mean he is wrong or his point can be dismissed. My biggest takeaway from him was that grinding guys down every day breaks their bodies by year 4. How can this even be a question?
Ben likes the spotlight he always has. We all know what happened to him and how he wasn't around for awhile because of his health. He now has picked the hot topic and keeps at it. He wants to be in the spotlight again. He can barely leave the house and can't be around groups of people. All the talk about Ben being a coach at Iowa is pointless his health won't even allow it. Everyone talking about it is giving Ben exactly what he wants and that's the spotlight. And I have no problem with Ben. I have been around since he was wrestling in HS and have seen his antics forever so they don't bother me .
I think with the argument he was making, he had to bring up Iowa. Ive always thought that out of all the top teams, Iowa struggles the most with guys regressing. Not just injuries, but falling off compared to their competitors. Too many instances of Iowa wrestlers losing to guys they beat earlier in their careers. You can't get any more of a head to head comparison than that. There aren't too many instances of Iowa guys flipping losses, but there are quite a few examples going the other way. I know there are exceptions, but it generally trends that way.
Zoom exists. Ben can call in from his hermetic bubble and impart his wisdom on wrestlers via the wonders of the Internet. He doesn't even need to get out of his PJs. But it seems many are eager to dismiss his offer of help solely due to (1) his health and (2) his perceived status as an "Iowa hater". Seems foolish to me.
Take the help when it's offered. Doubly if you actually need it.
You can dismiss his current physical abilities but his assessment of college wrestling makes a lot of sense to me. (And I’m no fan of his.)
He has a brilliant wrestling mind. But he's not physically able not sure how everyone is missing that point he's said it himself