We Did Come to Play School!
- Thread starter TheC
- Start date
I'd actually argue the guy with the most unrealized potential is Green. Singleton with the highest ceiling, but I think we have seen a few games that will hopefully become his sustained level already as a frosh. The Penn State game comes to mind.
I’ll concede his defense is not great. On the flip side, west is shooting 35% from 2 and 33% from 3. Kropp is shooting 39% from 2 and 25% from 3. Neither guy is an elite defender or passer. They are freshman but I have seen nothing that tells me they can be starters for an upper half BIG team. Also Singleton is shooting 16% from 3!
Reid’s numbers aren’t much better but he has at least shown flashes. If you want to say they are all busts, I can buy that too. In my opinion, there is no one on the roster that absolutely needs to come back.
If Tre didn’t come back it would be devastating to the program!
Depends on the price. If it’s just the cost of a scholarship, it would hurt. If we are paying him $$$, we should do better.
Everything is relative. You want to keep Kropp and West. I’m taking Reid over those guys all day every day
You just named the 3 guys I would be most disappointed to lose. Tre, West and Kropp.
Have you seen that we’ve made 3 tournaments in the last decade with real academic standards? We can compete most years but this team is a dead fish. Very unlikable.
I must have been dreaming when I attended those games in person. Where were you? At home trashing them on TV?
Man... if you're not excited about the potential of Jake West... I don't know what to say. He can handle, he can pass, he can shoot and he can dunk! Just needs some college muscles and watch out! The 3 frosh are an exciting nucleus, but give them another year or two to grow.
Then grow up and face the reality that academic standards means we can’t retool every year like other teams, NIL or not, and stop trashing people. And you call others clowns? Resorting to name calling doesn’t help your case.
Depends on what you mean by retool. NU will never be like Illinois and other teams that bring in 7 or 8 transfers a year. But NU absolutely can get to a point where they have highly ranked HS recruiting classes that are supplemented by 2 or 3 impactful transfers many years. Never relying on freshmen playing huge roles.
Paige and Reid are great athletes who got in after spending multiple years at other schools. That’s a concession by admissions. Unfortunately Collins and staff overestimated what they could do for this years team. There’s no reason this program can’t get to a point where a down season is 7-8 conference wins with most years 10+. The equation is HS recruiting with players that are ready to be big contributors in their soph or junior years and a hit rate on transfers that is much better than it was this year. That failure this year had nothing to do with admissions. And I’m not saying the transfers were the sole reason this season has been a disaster. Like I’ve said before, Gragg can take some blame for killing a full class.
Very fair points. We just can’t seem to avoid issues like injuries, stadium rebuilds, administration problems, etc. I agree there is a future that could work if the academic concessions exist.
I’m fine with having a down year. This is much worse. We are embarrassing to watch this year. Last year was a “down” year and I could live with it. This is a disaster.
And you came after me first… so… maybe don’t take shots?
I am reacting to your posts…that’s not coming at you first.
Sports Reference has a metric called Simple Rating System, which reflects point differential and strength of schedule. Last year was NOT a down year; in fact, it was our BEST EVER year for SRS. This year is our 6th best SRS in the last 30 years. You may think it’s a disaster, but it’s not. And check out the years 2017-18 through 2021-22; much worse than this year. (Of course, the rest of BIG being so strong plays a part in all of this). This is proof you are overreacting.
My brother in Christ, we are 2-11 in conference. That’s the definition of a disaster.
This is his incredibly obvious at this point. It’s wild we found one person who doesn’t realize it.
Incredibly obvious, sure thing. guy is shooting 40% From the field but is clearly better. He is Ryan Greer 2.0.
this argument is like trying to figure out who is the tallest midget. If either guy is your stating PG, you don’t have a good team
The difference is one is a true freshman who is developing rapidly before our eyes and the other was supposed to be an impact starting veteran
When it comes to freshmen, I pay less attention to cumulative stats as I expect freshmen to be wildly inconsistent while mostly struggling. This leads to not-so-great overall numbers. What I'm really looking for are those moments that reveal their potential. West showed multiple things in that Iowa game that got me very excited. His ability to get into the paint and then find guys with the little drop off pass or reach around pass are exciting. He also finished in the lane a couple times including that dunk which just has to excite you as a fan. He now needs to learn how to hit that Boo Buie floater now and again and also find guys outside the paint for open threes when he drives. By contrast Reid seems to get into the lane and just get swallowed up. He doesn't seem to be able to finish, and I don't think he's a very good passer in traffic. He did a nice job with the lob to Page, but that seems to have dwindled as we moved into conference play against better defense.
West also hit that step back three in the first half along with another stand still three that makes you excited about his shooting with a little more time and strength. His ball handling has been pretty strong for an undersized freshman (weight wise more than height). And, most importantly, it really looks like he is getting better and more comfortable as the season goes on, which makes you optimistic that he'll keep improving. I feel like, with that one high scoring game exception, Reid has looked worse as the season has progressed.
To be clear, I am not trying to change your mind. Just adding my thoughts to the conversation and providing my optimistic hopes.
To jump in here I think West and Tre are absolute must keep on the team with a lot of upside. Everyone else is secondary. I still think Gelo has some potential to improve and would be another to keep.
Per Torvik, Jake West is 51.9% (14/27) on 2s "At the Rim". For comparison, Boo in '24 was 50.8% (63/124). While Jake hasn't had as many attempts, it bodes well that he's finishing at that kind of efficiency.
For those that are bemoaning Jayden Reid's lack of success "at the rim", the stats back up their eyes. He's been 38.5% (25/65) this year - that's not gonna work. In '25, he was 44.6% (33/74), and in '24 he was 45.6% (26/57) with USF. Still not optimal, as you want your guards to be finishing round 50% at the rack.
I agree, and to be a winner, we still need to add two players with comparable ability and one player with a really great specialty like inside defense (Nicholson minimum) or super three shooter (Berry, Langborg minimum)
Wow. The only thing you said in this post that I agree with is about Kropp being "serviceable."
In my opinion:
- Tre is young and inexperienced, but he already has the body and athleticism to be a solid Big Ten starter. He fouls too much, but that should improve as he puts on even more muscle and gains experience on how to be a plus defender in this conference. As he gains confidence, I predict that perhaps by next year, and certainly by year 3, he will be one of our stars.
- West is more than serviceable and has a high upside - he has the potential to be a top tier Big Ten PG, at the same level as BMac and Boo.
- Kropp will become serviceable, but probably no more than that. I see him as becoming a Sanjay Lumpkin-type: does all the dirty work, fights hard for rebounds and loose balls, and defends adequately. He can also probably do just enough on the offensive side not to be a liability, but will never be a top scoring option.
- Reid can be a great scorer - his mid range jumper is a solid part of his game and can drive to the hoop fairly well - but isn't as good at running the offense and facilitating as West seems to be. I would like to keep him, but even if he leaves, I think we are in good hands with West for the PG spot - we would just need to find a backup for West.
- West (over Singleton simply because having a good PG is more important than having a good SF)
- Singleton
- Kropp
- Reid (ranked lower than Kropp mainly because of West's presence)
PG: West
SG: Ciaravino/Green (or Windham, if he miraculously stays and gets out of the doghouse)
SF: Singleton
PF: Kropp
C: portal addition vs Bennerman (assuming he can add 20-30lbs of muscle)
Lots of hope for the future. Still a young team, and probably not a tourney team next year, but a solid foundation.Also agree. And in regards to the 3-pt threat, we need someone who can get their shot off more quickly than a lot of our current players. Green can be deadly accurate as evidenced by his early season success, but his release is too slow. Langborg in particularly had a fast trigger which is what made him so good. Berry also had a reasonably quick release, although I still think if it had been a millisecond faster, he would have had even more success.
Hopefully Green will work on it over the off-season. With his current release time, there are too many shots he passes up because he is worried the defender will get his hand up before he can get the shot off.
Why do you say that? Who would you put in which spots instead?
When I list that as the starting lineup, it is with the assumption that the young players all make the fairly typical jumps in their output between 1st and 2nd year. I project that the first 3 spots would make fairly sizeable jumps, based on what we have seen this year. PF and C are definitely areas of concern, but I think Kropp can be serviceable. Center is the biggest question mark, but I don't think we would be "screwed."
Bigger? Or just more important to the team? PG is the focal point. When we have not had one we have been crappy. When we have one we are competitive
Not going to go through it all, but that lineup would hardly score any points. None of them will have averaged as much as 10 points a game and none is a dependable three point shooter. A couple of serious transfers are a must for us to be at all viable.