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Where should Francis rank in 26-27 payroll?

What should Francis rank in $$$?

  • 1st

    Votes: 23 33.3%

  • 2nd

    Votes: 13 18.8%

  • 3rd

    Votes: 18 26.1%

  • 4th

    Votes: 9 13.0%

  • 5th

    Votes: 3 4.3%

  • 6th or lower?

    Votes: 3 4.3%
  • Total voters
    69
N

NickRU714

Heisman
Aug 18, 2009
14,019
12,819
113
A lot of talk about "need to retain Francis, Buchanan, Powers etc..."

But its not that easy.
Now you need to consider $$$ implications.

Are you comfortable keeping Francis a Top 3 paid player on the roster?
What about Buchannon or Powers?

If Francis wants $1m+ - does he still HAVE to be retained?

Even dollar spent on "retention" is one less dollar spent on bringing in talent via transfer (or even recruiting).
 
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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
NickRU714 said:
A lot of talk about "need to retain Francis, Buchanan, Powers etc..."

But its not that easy.
Now you need to consider $$$ implications.

Are you comfortable keeping Francis a Top 3 paid player on the roster?
What about Buchannon or Powers?

If Francis wants $1m+ - does he still HAVE to be retained?

Even dollar spent on "retention" is one less dollar spent on bringing in talent via transfer (or even recruiting).
Click to expand...

You can’t simply “rank”. You have to consider the pool of transfers who will reasonably consider Rutgers as their destination next season. Pike will be coach. It’s all but announced. With Pike as coach, the “who will come question” changes drastically if starting from scratch on both sides of the ball, vs. working to fill needs without what currently exists.

Let’s start with the one reality that’s pretty much a given whether we retain Francis or not. We will not be landing a double digit starting guard from a power conference via the transfer portal. The chance of that happening rounds to zero regardless. The portal kids we can land at guard will have PJ, Dercack, TF type profiles with massive question marks about their ability to transfer up. Just like SHU this year and pretty much any school coming off a bad season unless money is no object.

That’s why keeping Tariq is basically a requirement. It’s not a matter of “salary rank”. He simply must be the first player secured so that we can go into portal market with a priority of upgrading the D and landing a center who can put the ball through the net down low - doesn’t have to be an offensive super star - MJ level would be fine. We can’t have guys that only score an occasional basket as our starting 5 (fine as back ups but we need a starter who can give us at least 8ish consistently). But these defensive players have to want to come to RU and they cannot be the top focus if we’re first in the market shopping around for offense.

We have to look at the big picture. 145 ranking on offense considering we get literally NOTHING in the paint from front court players except Buchanan (who arguably isn’t really a frontcourt player and is more of a multipurpose type) isn’t all that bad. We could add 2 defensive players at the 4 and 5 with pedestrian looking offensive metrics and STILL significantly improve the offense if we retain our nucleus (which starts and ends with Francis). That HAS to be the plan with Pike. There is no other option.

Have to negotiate to secure Francis first. Then based on where that lands in the total allocation - find the money to fix the frontcourt with 2 additions. Work to retain other complementary pieces from current roster. Then one last meaningful piece from portal based on remaining funds. Might be a midmajor but height and ball handling needed. That must be the plan. There is no choice really.
 
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S

Scarlet Blind_rivals

All-Conference
Aug 5, 2001
4,599
4,662
62
He should be 2nd or 3rd depending on the transfer portal gets. If we keep Francis I don't see how we can keep JMike. They are very similar players and Francis is equal to or better than Jmike at most things but defense.

Of the top 4 players, i think we retain 2 of 4.

Buchanan or Grant
Francis or Davis

Grant and Davis are solid role players off/def, Francis and Buchanan better offense/ weaker defense according to Evan Miya analytics.

Keep Powers, Zrno, and Dortch fit roles, Powers the highest ceiling. Need to go hard for 2 Bigs. Looks like Mark and Nwuli are a package, both stay or leave. Both solid defensively but lack offensive consistency. Badalau, Fall and Ware pretty indifferent if they will develop into anything. Ogbole could apply for a 5th but I don't think we'd want him back. That's how I'd see the roster for 26-27.
 
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LeapinLou

LeapinLou

All-American
Jul 24, 2001
13,144
6,763
113
I change with the weather but right now I think we should retain in this order:
- Francis
- Buchanan
- Zrno
- Powers
- Grant
- JMike
- Ogbole

Based on Richie's inside information, I have no confidence in Mark or Nwuli to return. As to how much you have to pay a Myles Johnson caliber center, I have to clue.
 
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T

tru2ru1

All-Conference
Feb 5, 2003
5,675
3,342
66
NickRU714 said:
A lot of talk about "need to retain Francis, Buchanan, Powers etc..."

But its not that easy.
Now you need to consider $$$ implications.

Are you comfortable keeping Francis a Top 3 paid player on the roster?
What about Buchannon or Powers?

If Francis wants $1m+ - does he still HAVE to be retained?

Even dollar spent on "retention" is one less dollar spent on bringing in talent via transfer (or even recruiting).
Click to expand...
Look at it this way...how much will it cost to replace the scoring from Francis in the portal & is it cheaper to keep him over trying to replace him. Also need to know if other are interested in playing at RU or if there will be bonus needed to secure transfers.
 
S

seansherm

Heisman
Feb 20, 2009
14,032
14,969
113
Can't really say where he should rank, since we don’t quite know where the market will be this off season. We need him back. We also have to a have a starting level big, and that will be expensive. Also have other needs that will cost.
We want Francis, DB, JMike, Powers, Zrno, Dortch, ideally EO, and Grant back. Wouldn't mind Nwuli, not sure it happens. Need a starting center, a defensive stretch 4ish guy and a wing that can ball handle.
 
RUskoolie

RUskoolie

Hall of Famer
Aug 1, 2007
221,399
112,066
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I don't expect him back because I think the correct move is to have Knight walk (Francis would go right out the door) and bring in an offensive assistant who can coach an offense to get guys open constantly.

Otherwise we are all holding our breath we can bring in enough talent to get on the bubble with our current offense and I just don't see it. I don't think we are a Cliff Omouryi away from being on the bubble. Maybe 3 of these guys could have played on the good Pike teams.
 
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RUskoolie

RUskoolie

Hall of Famer
Aug 1, 2007
221,399
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LeapinLou said:
I change with the weather but right now I think we should retain in this order:
- Francis
- Buchanan
- Zrno
- Powers
- Grant
- JMike
- Ogbole

Based on Richie's inside information, I have no confidence in Mark or Nwuli to return. As to how much you have to pay a Myles Johnson caliber center, I have to clue.
Click to expand...
Grant should not even be offered a renewal. He is likely our highest paid guy and has looked disinterested for 2 months. He plays like he's 5'11 and can't defend or rebound.
 
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LeapinLou

LeapinLou

All-American
Jul 24, 2001
13,144
6,763
113
RUskoolie said:
Grant should not even be offered a renewal. He is likely our highest paid guy and has looked disinterested for 2 months. He plays like he's 5'11 and can't defend or rebound.
Click to expand...
It seems to me, your opinion is based on recent performance. If you include the 2nd half of last season and the1st 10 games of this season, he's very good. At one point this season, he was considered the best player on the team and it wasn't close. I wouldn't give up on him so easily.
 
L

Loyal-Son

All-Conference
Jan 5, 2016
1,447
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81
Great discussion,

We still have several games to go, so the peck order might change by the time we play our last game.

IMO there are no good options for Pike. I am rooting for him, but it is a step uphill climb from here.

Powers looks like he could be one of those players Pike is able to develop, but who knows how the money will affect our choices?
 
B

BillyC80

Heisman
Oct 23, 2006
17,063
15,445
72
Tariq should be 3rd in payroll after a legit center and point guard.

If Tariq leaves for more money or to follow Knight out the door, then keeping Powers at the 2, Buchanan at the 3, and Grant at the 4 to play with a legit 1 and 5 will be important.

If Francis were a true point guard, it would solve a lot of problems, and we could focus on a center and 4 to replace Grant.
 
RUskoolie

RUskoolie

Hall of Famer
Aug 1, 2007
221,399
112,066
63
LeapinLou said:
It seems to me, your opinion is based on recent performance. If you include the 2nd half of last season and the1st 10 games of this season, he's very good. At one point this season, he was considered the best player on the team and it wasn't close. I wouldn't give up on him so easily.
Click to expand...
I think it's more he's given up on us. He has looked disinterested for 2 months. He's invisible on the glass and his defense is subpar. He looked good against the FDUs of the world.
 
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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
RUskoolie said:
I think it's more he's given up on us. He has looked disinterested for 2 months. He's invisible on the glass and his defense is subpar. He looked good against the FDUs of the world.
Click to expand...
I doubt he’s “given up” now that it’s a paid world. His next salary depends on he he does.
 
P

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
RUskoolie said:
I don't expect him back because I think the correct move is to have Knight walk (Francis would go right out the door) and bring in an offensive assistant who can coach an offense to get guys open constantly.

Otherwise we are all holding our breath we can bring in enough talent to get on the bubble with our current offense and I just don't see it. I don't think we are a Cliff Omouryi away from being on the bubble. Maybe 3 of these guys could have played on the good Pike teams.
Click to expand...

Then you have to get rid of Pike now. we’ll be worse next year with Pike than now if we don’t keep Francis. It’d be almost an identical position to be in as last year. The “potential” you see from frosh is just like any potential you saw from Grant, Dortch and Lathan last year.
 
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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
Scarlet Blind_rivals said:
He should be 2nd or 3rd depending on the transfer portal gets. If we keep Francis I don't see how we can keep JMike. They are very similar players and Francis is equal to or better than Jmike at most things but defense.

Of the top 4 players, i think we retain 2 of 4.

Buchanan or Grant
Francis or Davis

Grant and Davis are solid role players off/def, Francis and Buchanan better offense/ weaker defense according to Evan Miya analytics.

Keep Powers, Zrno, and Dortch fit roles, Powers the highest ceiling. Need to go hard for 2 Bigs. Looks like Mark and Nwuli are a package, both stay or leave. Both solid defensively but lack offensive consistency. Badalau, Fall and Ware pretty indifferent if they will develop into anything. Ogbole could apply for a 5th but I don't think we'd want him back. That's how I'd see the roster for 26-27.
Click to expand...
Grant is not even close to better at defense than Buchanan. Whatever that stat your pointing to is assessing it has to be flawed. Grant is the worst defender on the team at his position who sees meaningful minutes.
 
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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
MadRU said:
The way I look at it, is if Francis is one of our top three players we will probably really struggle again next season.
Click to expand...

I hate to break it to you, but I don’t know that Pike has had 5 players (including Dylan and Ace) match Tariq’s production / efficiency over the course of his entire stint at RU and you think we’re getting 3 guys who are better than him in the portal?

What’s wrong with you people? It’s hard to compare a center to a guard but it’s unlikely we will be landing a lead scoring / high major center. There is only like one guard in the whole BIG with better metrics than Tariq eligible to return next year. We’re not a good team but Tariq is absolutely a baller. Both of these things can be true.
 
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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine said:
Exactly why I voted him for 4th on RU payroll next season.
Click to expand...
You voted because that’s what you want or because you think that’s realistic?

The center will cost more than Tariq. The other guys we’ll be buying if Pike is looking to get back to his roots will be D guys and won’t have pretty metrics.
 
P

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
BillyC80 said:
Tariq should be 3rd in payroll after a legit center and point guard.

If Tariq leaves for more money or to follow Knight out the door, then keeping Powers at the 2, Buchanan at the 3, and Grant at the 4 to play with a legit 1 and 5 will be important.

If Francis were a true point guard, it would solve a lot of problems, and we could focus on a center and 4 to replace Grant.
Click to expand...
We will be terrible once again if Grant our starting 4 and buying a PG will be a risk because we won’t be getting one from a high major. Those guys aren’t transferring in to RU unless it’s a utility guy in which case there is risk too.
 
R

RUPete90

Senior
Jul 3, 2025
524
744
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RUskoolie said:
Grant should not even be offered a renewal. He is likely our highest paid guy and has looked disinterested for 2 months. He plays like he's 5'11 and can't defend or rebound.
Click to expand...
I agree with you but I find it hard to believe that I am agreeing with you. Seeing the way he finished last year and started this year, I thought we had a star in the making. I can't believe it has come to this.
 
BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
Jan 12, 2015
38,609
38,689
113
PSAL_Hoops said:
You voted because that’s what you want or because you think that’s realistic?

The center will cost more than Tariq. The other guys we’ll be buying if Pike is looking to get back to his roots will be D guys and won’t have pretty metrics.
Click to expand...
Hopeful. I want to bring in starter talent at C, PG (or at least a taller combo guard in the Geo mold) plus PF. Perhaps Tariq's $ would be same as a PG/Geo-type guard.
 
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FAT MOON

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2006
4,272
4,466
113
He's earned a big payday so if the 8mm number is true...

anyone who is saying anything other than 1st or 2nd basically means you aren't going to bring him back. he's going to cost a lot...
 
P

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine said:
Hopeful. I want to bring in starter talent at C, PG (or at least a taller combo guard in the Geo mold) plus PF. Perhaps Tariq's $ would be same as a PG/Geo-type guard.
Click to expand...

A center will cost more than Tariq because that’s what the market dictates. Just aren’t that many of them so demand jacks up the price. I don’t think we’ll be getting a veteran starting PG from a high major no matter what we offer. A back up or a mid major guard that we realistically have a chance of landing will not command more than Tariq. So that said player would not be more expensive than him. Remember - throw out NJIT. He is coming off a 13th in the BIG season scoring on solid efficiency both from 2 and 3 and one of the best FT shooters in the country on high volume attempts. What outsider do you think would consider us (even if we offer the moon) with numbers remotely close to this?
 
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Scarlet Blind_rivals

All-Conference
Aug 5, 2001
4,599
4,662
62
PSAL_Hoops said:
Grant is not even close to better at defense than Buchanan. Whatever that stat your pointing to is assessing it has to be flawed. Grant is the worst defender on the team at his position who sees meaningful minutes.
Click to expand...
This is the breakdown of individual KenPom/Torvik Efficiency player vs player called BPR(Bayesian Performance Rating)

Player OBPR / DBPR
Francis +3.62 / -0.10 +3.52
Davis +1.05 / +1.05 +2.10

Grant +1.21 / +0.42 +1.63
Buch +0.94 / -0.63 +0.31

A lot of the defense stuff is because Davis 3rd yr and Grant 2nd to Francis and Buchanan 1st year here and understanding the defense better.

These are the stats why I can't see them keep 2 6'1 scoring PGs and Buchanan Wing/G to Grant Wing/F. They all need 25-30+ minutes in 26-27 but can't really play together on the same floor for long stretches. Decisions need to be made.

Francis 28-49 57.1%, 68-147 46.3%(49.0%), 3pt 34-102 33.3%
Davis 12-34 35.3%, 23-69 38.3%(37.2%), 3pt 22-62 35.5%

Davis shoots the 3 a bit better w/ defense or keep Francis just does things much better at a higher volume and hope the defense improves.

Grant 49-94 52.1%, 17-41 41.5%(48.9%), 3pt 19-57 33.3% 10.6pts/4.5reb
Buchanan 32-59 54.2%, 30-68 44.1%(48.8%), 3pt 10-25 40% 8.3pts/3.3reb

This team has many weaknesses and holes, we can't keep 2 guys filling the same role twice over, all upperclassmen 3 seniors and a junior. It won't work next year.

Powers combo guard different role, Zrno 3 PT specialist different role, Dortch 4/undersized 5(2.5pts, 3.5rebs), top defender on the team(DBPR +1.87, Davis 2nd +1.05) different role.

Top needs are Big and a scoring/rebounding forward or hope Dortch develops into a monster at the 4. Francis is worth 2nd/3rd on the team money.
 
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
Jan 12, 2015
38,609
38,689
113
PSAL_Hoops said:
A center will cost more than Tariq because that’s what the market dictates. Just aren’t that many of them so demand jacks up the price. I don’t think we’ll be getting a veteran starting PG from a high major no matter what we offer. A back up or a mid major guard that we realistically have a chance of landing will not command more than Tariq. So that said player would not be more expensive than him. Remember - throw out NJIT. He is coming off a 13th in the BIG season scoring on solid efficiency both from 2 and 3 and one of the best FT shooters in the country on high volume attempts. What outsider do you think would consider us (even if we offer the moon) with numbers remotely close to this?
Click to expand...
Couldn't tell you who is on R portal target list yet.
 
P

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
Scarlet Blind_rivals said:
This is the breakdown of individual KenPom/Torvik Efficiency player vs player called BPR(Bayesian Performance Rating)

Player OBPR / DBPR
Francis +3.62 / -0.10 +3.52
Davis +1.05 / +1.05 +2.10

Grant +1.21 / +0.42 +1.63
Buch +0.94 / -0.63 +0.31

A lot of the defense stuff is because Davis 3rd yr and Grant 2nd to Francis and Buchanan 1st year here and understanding the defense better.

These are the stats why I can't see them keep 2 6'1 scoring PGs and Buchanan Wing/G to Grant Wing/F. They all need 25-30+ minutes in 26-27 but can't really play together on the same floor for long stretches. Decisions need to be made.

Francis 28-49 57.1%, 68-147 46.3%(49.0%), 3pt 34-102 33.3%
Davis 12-34 35.3%, 23-69 38.3%(37.2%), 3pt 22-62 35.5%

Davis shoots the 3 a bit better w/ defense or keep Francis just does things much better at a higher volume and hope the defense improves.

Grant 49-94 52.1%, 17-41 41.5%(48.9%), 3pt 19-57 33.3% 10.6pts/4.5reb
Buchanan 32-59 54.2%, 30-68 44.1%(48.8%), 3pt 10-25 40% 8.3pts/3.3reb

This team has many weaknesses and holes, we can't keep 2 guys filling the same role twice over, all upperclassmen 3 seniors and a junior. It won't work next year.

Powers combo guard different role, Zrno 3 PT specialist different role, Dortch 4/undersized 5(2.5pts, 3.5rebs), top defender on the team(DBPR +1.87, Davis 2nd +1.05) different role.

Top needs are Big and a scoring/rebounding forward or hope Dortch develops into a monster at the 4. Francis is worth 2nd/3rd on the team money.
Click to expand...

It is very hard to measure defense with advanced metrics - particularly for forwards. What does that mean? The naked eye says Grant is horrible at defense. He’s particularly poor at securing defensive rebounds that are coming his way (I don’t see how that’s a metric that can be tracked individually outside of just watching and observing). He’s also a horrific help defender. The advanced metrics likely don’t account for that either and surely must be based on on individual measurables such as getting scored on. Darren plays 10+ minutes a game out of position at the 5 and does his best but he’s playing out of position. Comparing defensive metrics for the two of them is like comparing apples and oranges. Grant is a MUCH worse defender - it’s not close.

Francis and Davis do not fill the same role. Suggesting as much is just nuts. They are polar opposites in terms of what they provide. Davis provides ball handling. If the rumors are true that Lino is leaving, he’s the only pure ball handler on the team so that’s something. But he provides literally nothing else. Don’t give me we’re getting better 3 point shooting. Even if you assumed he’d maintain his percentage by taking 65% more 3s (big if) he’d still only have 2 more 3s that Tariq if he attempted the same 102 of them. J Mike has only made 35 two point FGs the entire season and shoots them at horrible efficiency. Tariq has made almost triple that number of 2s in less playing time at way better efficiency. Thats a rounding error.

The difference on defense is not the mountains some make it out to be. Even if your metric data is accurate for Tariq, it confirms he’s essentially net neutral. -0.1 is not the problem with our D. It’s a front court issue and always has been. And the relative +1 for J Mike isn’t moving the needle to help us much. We need to fix the front court D. That’s the core of the problem. For certain.
 
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P

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
13,089
12,428
78
Zebnatto1! said:
My top four:

Francis
Powers
Buchanan
Zrno
Click to expand...

The prudent thing to do in my opinion is commit a budget of 5.5M for 4 players who we will reasonably expect to be in our starting 5 rotation - Center, Francis, Forward (Grant replacement who plays D), and Buchanan.

From there - we need to shop the portal for a ball handler with height, retain one ball handler J Mike/Lino or if not, find a frosh PG to add (it’s late but we must have 2 primary ball handlers on the roster). Either J Mike / Lino or this addition would be the 5th starter. Keeping Powers and Zrno is ok if the price point works, otherwise one or the other. I’d also keep both Bryce and Ogbole as back up 5s (I don’t think we’ll get better options at back up). That’s 5-7 total with a budget cap of around 3.5M and it could be less.

That would bring our roster count up to 9-11 plus the two frosh (figure 300K combined). Then with whatever money we have left, you go shopping to plug whatever hole remains with one last late pick up.
 
B

Bob Chaewsky_rivals

All-Conference
Dec 31, 2008
7,408
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113
LeapinLou said:
I change with the weather but right now I think we should retain in this order:
- Francis
- Buchanan
- Zrno
- Powers
- Grant
- JMike
- Ogbole

Based on Richie's inside information, I have no confidence in Mark or Nwuli to return. As to how much you have to pay a Myles Johnson caliber center, I have to clue.
Click to expand...
I think Zrno over Powers is nuts. Outside of three point shooting, and I'm not even sure of that, there is not one single thing that Zrno does better than Powers.
 
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
Jan 12, 2015
38,609
38,689
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PSAL_Hoops said:
But you don’t need to know that. Just look at other teams’ portal classes from prior seasons and there’s a clear enough pattern to know what won’t be realistic for us.
Click to expand...
We'll have more NIL for next season. I would like to believe we can nab some portal guys we couldn't compete for previously. But I'm not in a position to really argue this point--no time to spend on the research you note. That's why I subscribe to premium, and Richie gets paid the big bucks.
 
S

seansherm

Heisman
Feb 20, 2009
14,032
14,969
113
Bob Chaewsky_rivals said:
I think Zrno over Powers is nuts. Outside of three point shooting, and I'm not even sure of that, there is not one single thing that Zrno does better than Powers.
Click to expand...
To my eye, he tries harder, and may be better on the defensive end. Also has better size. Could see if being a value proposition, Zrno seems like a kid that would stay for less, while Powers people will want $1M at first sign of a 20 pt game. I hope both stick around. Powers could be a slightly better offensive and worse defensive version of Geo and Zrno the kind of bench shooter we've always needed.
 
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M

Mholinko

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Apr 25, 2023
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If the rumored $ we will have is around 8 million I want to see it allocated to maximum 9 guys

get a starting 5 all commanding over 1 million with couple guys getting 1.5-2

spread the other 1.5 million to 4 bench players that you’ve likely brought back through retention for 250-500k

Fill back end of roster with bodies

if we aren’t a huge spender we need to take our chances bringing in 8/9 real players and not worrying about paying everyone

in this case Francis would command 1-1.5 million and be 2nd or 3rd with two meaningful front court pieces or a big and a true pg
 
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Bob Chaewsky_rivals

All-Conference
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seansherm said:
To my eye, he tries harder, and may be better on the defensive end. Also has better size. Could see if being a value proposition, Zrno seems like a kid that would stay for less, while Powers people will want $1M at first sign of a 20 pt game. I hope both stick around. Powers could be a slightly better offensive and worse defensive version of Geo and Zrno the kind of bench shooter we've always needed.
Click to expand...
I hope he becomes a better defensive player than Geo. Geo wasn't that good a defensive player.
 
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