Coach standing right on the sideline should’ve demanded the ball go into the backcourt. Game is over once #14 catches it and runs around for a few seconds. CBs late game management is bad, and it shows with the team!
N C State Preview and Game Thread
- Thread starter ZinfanHeel
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I decided not to watch the four quarter at all ( I couldn't deal with watching another possible choke job). I checked the final score on here and I see that Carolina got win despite the usual end game shenanigans. Banghart has now won on every ACC opposing team's homecourt and hosting is now back on the table.
Always love giving State an L in any sport. Great job Lady Heels!
Strongly disagree.
You want our freshman center ball handling by herself under the wrong basket, with 12 seconds left? even best case scenario she is not the first, second or third option for FTs.
Ball got into the right hands. That is the coach’s job. the player has to not turn it over.
Taissa was back there for insurance as last option and to handle defense in the case of a turnover.
I think we did foul they just didn’t call it (or reached) and then State lost the ball. Seemed more bad luck than anything
They sure did not make it easy on your nerves. I am so glad we won and got that Quad 1 win. CB and Staff must work on closing a game execution in practice. I would put 2 minutes on the clock near the end of practice when they are tired and work on this. CB needs to know who will need to be in the game at the time which goes back to knowing your personnel. Then they must make their FT's and work on passing and cutting with less dribbling. They almost gave this one away at the end. Having IN take the ball out was great. We have got to stop that one on one crap to close the game. There was no reason why RK should have got a held ball when the pass was coming in and two state players run at her to double team her. You had TQ open. I would have thrown the ball to TQ to take more time off of the clock. I knew RK was going to try to either dribble or hold on to the ball when she got it. NC State players were smart to double team her without fouling and ZB tied her up for a jump ball call. This was poor execution which could have cost us the game. If you pass the ball and move without dribbling then this will prevent that from happening. We are basically talking about high school basketball 101. Also, TQ was not underneath NC State's basket as someone suggested. Yes, she was in the back court for insurance, but she was not too far from the back court line. They could have thrown the ball to her as DSPHeel had suggested. Then NC state players would have had to run to her to foul her. TQ has been making her FT's the last time I checked. TQ would not need to dribble because she has two options pass the ball to an open teammate or stand there to get foul. Trust me a teammate would have been open for her to pass the ball to because you can see the double team coming as oppose to running into it. With proper spacing no one would need to dribble. Just keep passing the ball away and game is over. Very simple execution.
Go watch it again. Trygger never dribbled.
there was a deflected ball caused by good UNC defense, Pierre recovered in the scrape, then immediately hit Trygger slashing to the basket for a no dribble layup. Fouling Trygger from behind almost definitely would have been a 3 pt play.
State was fortunate to keep the ball, much less get an uncontested shot.
there was no point in that possession that would have been safe to foul. The only dribbler was Pierre when she was headed directly toward the basket looking to score. No bueno.
not saying the last three minutes went well. Many mistakes for players and some for the coaches. But the reason State had a chance was 3 turnovers in that span. After only 7 the previous 37 minutes.
When teams stop trying to defend the basket and only focus on aggressively trying to steal the ball, this team cannot simply posses.
But State was also fortunate with a lunan and Jones making difficult contested shots, and a three from a 26% shooter. Kudos to them for stepping up.
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I’d really love for a lot of you to apply to be our next head coach.
We slowed a little but not as much as we did against Syracuse. And we actually ran sets and not just had RK dribble for 28 seconds. Also, you can’t blame CB for all the bad decisions the players made in that stretch. She didn’t tell Reniya to try and dribble behind her back in triple coverage… she didn’t tell Indya to give away a ball in triple coverage. I’m not saying she’s perfect, but at some point a lot of y’all need to point the finger at the people actually making the decisions on the court, too. Also, a lot of those shots NC State made at the end were tough freaking shots.
We slowed a little but not as much as we did against Syracuse. And we actually ran sets and not just had RK dribble for 28 seconds. Also, you can’t blame CB for all the bad decisions the players made in that stretch. She didn’t tell Reniya to try and dribble behind her back in triple coverage… she didn’t tell Indya to give away a ball in triple coverage. I’m not saying she’s perfect, but at some point a lot of y’all need to point the finger at the people actually making the decisions on the court, too. Also, a lot of those shots NC State made at the end were tough freaking shots.
You 100% foul Pierre after the first dribble. But, we should have also come up with the loose ball and the layup should never have happened.
The frustration is that the same type errors are happening over and over in late game situations. Holding the ball under 4-5 minutes. Letting the other team back in the game. Then players being completely out of control in the last minute and turning it over. Not fouling. Missing FTs.
Is it our execution and personnel, or are we not properly prepared for late game situations? I am not in the huddle. Will Harpring fix this problem? God I hope so. We have already pissed away two conference games and almost did a third today.
But, great Q1 win on the road against one of your hated rivals. Happy days.
Zoe Brooks tonight:
3 of 11 for 8 points, 4 assists, 1 TO.
guarded by Kelly with some interchange with Grant.
in general we held them 19 points below their season scoring average and 8% below their FG%
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It was a strange game. The bad guys looked really good early. Scored easily and got every rebound. I think we wore them out a little with no bench. But we really did not use our depth in the second half either. We only used a couple of bench players in the second half which was surprising. No Aarnisalo at all in the second half was surprising. Especially late when we were panicking.
I just watched the most of the 4th quarter on replay (DVR) and I agree with you that the ball should've thrown into the backcourt. TQ wasn't under the or near State's basket. It would've been a better play that throwing the ball into a trap and hoping that RK was going to split a double team. TQ shouldn't have been out there in the first place if she can't be trusted with ball in her hands.
I have to assume the reason why no Carolina players was at free throw line when Indya was shooting was CB didn't want to risk any of them fouling them on a shot just in case State got the rebound off the most likely missed last free throw. She was more comfortable with State getting a clear look at a shot instead.
I wanted to also say that Trygger didn't dribble on that layup that made it a two point game.
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If Reniya had pivoted and turn her back to the double team I think she might have gotten the call JMO.
I am not sure who should have been back deep, I guess CB went with her best guess. TQ's high school film showed she is a good dribbler and she probably would have done a good job but she is unproven so far this season at dribbling or Free Throw shooting.
Glad to have the Quad 1 win. It was a great victory. Keep stacking wins Ladies !
I am not sure who should have been back deep, I guess CB went with her best guess. TQ's high school film showed she is a good dribbler and she probably would have done a good job but she is unproven so far this season at dribbling or Free Throw shooting.
Glad to have the Quad 1 win. It was a great victory. Keep stacking wins Ladies !
No way in hell you throw that ball in the backcourt to TQ in that situation. We had Harris back there once and threw it to her. That worked as a couple of seconds ticked off the clock and she made both FTs. You could argue she should have been in the back court.
It is the same inbounds play we ran last year once and LG turned it over in a similar position. The play is fine. Our guards need to do better when they get it.
And again, no one said Trygger dribbled. Pierre took two dribbles before losing the ball, recovering it, and passing to Trygger for the layup. Pierre should have been fouled after the first dribble.
It is the same inbounds play we ran last year once and LG turned it over in a similar position. The play is fine. Our guards need to do better when they get it.
And again, no one said Trygger dribbled. Pierre took two dribbles before losing the ball, recovering it, and passing to Trygger for the layup. Pierre should have been fouled after the first dribble.
Calling a play for your small PG to catch it going towards the corner is a good call, got it? That’s inviting a trap, which is what happened.
Amd Taissa being a freshman is irrelevant. She was in the game at crunch time. Her FT shooting is no worse than the upperclass ladies.
CB had 2 TOs remaining to get the “right” personnel in the game, and stood there with her arms folded looking bewildered.
You can defend her, which is your right, but some of us have a decent understanding of the game (and have coached it) and choose to call a spade a spade!
When I coached high school, we worked on end of game 3X a week. Down 5 with 1:30 left, up 3 with 1:00 left.
Team has to be familiar with the situation, and this staff seems clueless on late-game.
Bingo on throwing the ball to TQ. Take her out if you don’t trust her!
Labelling this as "in the corner" is a bit of a stretch. Kelly is open and has room to maneuver. It is a short, high percentage pass to our best ball handler and top 2 FT shooter. Kelly then does not move and does nothing to shield the ball. This and this alone is the biggest mistake on this play. Once she realized this was a play on the ball and not an immediate foul she successfully shields the ball, but the ref with the quick whistle calls a tie up that I think was a bad call. Also note that CB is standing directly behind the ref, mouth 5 inches from his ear. She is positioned to call a timeout. She is where she needs to be, ready to do what she needs to do. but the jump ball call was near instantaneous.
There are multiple things I do not like about this play: Once Kelly receives the ball, Taissa is removed completely from the play as a pass to her would be back court. That allows State to double the ball with no risk. And Nivar is not going to receive a pass back: she is a bad FT shooter. So it is 5 on 3.
All 5 Heels are just standing there: there is no outlet for Kelly and Kelly is flatfooted. It seems pretty clear we planned for the inbound and not the trap. Either the coaches, players or both assumed their only move was to foul. Bad assumption.
I would prefer that Kelly cut to the backcourt and caught the ball with the whole court available to her, but there is more risk in that move; you have to avoid the backcourt violation on the inbound pass and you are throwing it farther at a potentially bad angle. So that is not just a hands down better call. Different coaches have different priorities.
Are we assessing coach (or player) body language? Not a fan of that as meaningful or useful.
If you have been a coach, then I am sure you know not every play is a winner and winning plays are not always executed by your players. The final scoreboard and the final record for the season are what matters. We had more good plays than State.
State has more talent/athleticism and experience then UNC right now in the starting 5. But UNC beat them with depth, team defense and team execution through 40 minutes. That is harder to do. So when I evaluate just the X's & O's of who is a good coach in this particular game, I am more impressed with Coach Banghart. And that is not a slight on the other guy; Wes is a top notch coach. That is the spade I am calling.
If you listen to the post game interview, this was practiced all week.
I would have preferred Aarnisalo in the game over either Q or Nivar. She shoots 84% on FTs this season, so I am surprised she was not in when we were on offense.
There are certainly legitimate concerns about the late game lapses in close games, but I think most of that is just poor execution rather than coaching IMHO. In any event, a HUGE win against a strong rival on the road. Why is there no IC article on this big game (or there is, and I just missed it somehow)?
Someone mentioned hopefully Kate can fix this problem. Are you serious? She will be a freshmen next year. That is too much pressure to put on a freshmen. What is the point of having a HC if the HC does not know what to do and she is going to depend on a freshmen. Why do you practice? Why does a coach and her staff develop game plans? This is the HC job and not the player's job. Some of you are scared to call a spade a spade. We are know blank well that goes back to the HC and her or his staff. CB has been coaching at UNC for at least 7 years now and she has 19 years of coaching experience, stop making excuses for her. She should know better. This is the same crap she did when DK was here and a lot of you tried to blame DK when deep down inside you knew it was CB's fault. She is the HC, she is paid tons of money to make the tough decisions period. It is called game time execution when closing out a game. If you look at Duke and Kara Lawson, yes they took their lumps at the beginning of the season, but look at them now. They know how to execute the game plan and they know how to finish games. Look how they beat the crap out of WF the other day. This comes down to coaching, practicing, and teaching your players how to execute threw practice. Jeff Waltz is doing the same thing with a very young team. Stop making excuses for CB and call a spade a spade as another poster just stated.
At a minimum there is a trend for the team get frazzled late in close games when facing pressure defense.
This happened again last night, and State took a shoot to win the game after we seemed to have a comfortable lead with 3 min to go.
We have not made any obvious adjustments to deal with these late game situations. So, folks are expressing their concerns about the inability of CB to solve this problem.
I believe that we all want CB to make the adjustments to personnel and strategy needed to prevent opponents from exploiting the weaknesses we display.
This happened again last night, and State took a shoot to win the game after we seemed to have a comfortable lead with 3 min to go.
We have not made any obvious adjustments to deal with these late game situations. So, folks are expressing their concerns about the inability of CB to solve this problem.
I believe that we all want CB to make the adjustments to personnel and strategy needed to prevent opponents from exploiting the weaknesses we display.
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Hopefully Harpring solves the problems. In my opinion we still have three combo guards playing the point. All three are good, but not elite facilitators. You need that in late game situations. That one player who wants to handle the ball in those situations
Pierre caught the inbound ball open because Harris wis tasked with playing off the worst 3pt shooter to guard against back doors and protect the rim:
By the time Harris established defensive positioning it was dribble #2.5 and Pierre was driving directly at the rim to shoot. you do not intentionally foul here:
Instead what happens is TQ digs as a help defender dislodging the ball, an excellent defensive play:
TQ and LG go for the loose ball, as they should, but Pierre has the quickest hands as she has all night:
She grabs the ball at 15.4 sec and releases to Trygger at 14.9 before TQ or anyone could react to foul.
Trygger is already past NH. You definitely do not foul from behind while shooting:
There is no point in this play where UNC should have fouled, and we actually played great defense. They just got the loose ball.
Coaching-wise, the only thing that could have been done differently was for NH to play Pierre on the perimeter to try and foul immediately, only burning 1 second. But that is not worth the risk of failing to protect the rim.
Player-wise, NH could have conceeded a switch and marked the cutting Trygger, but that would have been a split-second decision and required her to just ignore the loose ball. Heady play by Trygger by the way. She started her cut before Pierre even had the loose ball.
Regardless, there is no coaching failure on this play. In the last 3 minutes, UNC actually played great defense almost always. The live ball turnovers on offense and this loose ball created the only open NCSU shots.
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Agree with this post. There is an obvious weakness in this team in just possessing the ball when ahead. That is, when the opposing team abandons protecting the rim in a normal defense and plays aggressively with no concern for getting whistled or conceding buckets. I would say it is the most glaring weakness of this team.
With that said, I don't know what the fix is. Our best players are making many of the mistakes. And while I do think Aarnisalo should have been in the game on offense late in this game, she too has made critical mistakes in earlier games where we faltered late, so I am not convinced the solution is sitting on the bench. But it does ultimately fall on the coaching staff to fix it. It is their team.
The 25/26 season of growth for next seasons returners plus Kate Harpring the #1 ranked PG in the nation coming out of HS will solve this problem.
3397 I think you hit on the idea that I would go with and that is pass it to Reniya behind the backcourt line and dribble hard. We would have had 10 seconds to cross halfcourt and the game would have been over. Also have a good FT shooter(maybe EA) pass the ball in so that is an option to pass the ball back to.
It was a great win on a hostile court that was celebrating the great Kay Yow. I say lets enjoy the victory. Every game from here until the tournament looms large and then it gets real serious.
Go Tar Heel WBB keep stacking wins beat Clemson !
3397 I think you hit on the idea that I would go with and that is pass it to Reniya behind the backcourt line and dribble hard. We would have had 10 seconds to cross halfcourt and the game would have been over. Also have a good FT shooter(maybe EA) pass the ball in so that is an option to pass the ball back to.
It was a great win on a hostile court that was celebrating the great Kay Yow. I say lets enjoy the victory. Every game from here until the tournament looms large and then it gets real serious.
Go Tar Heel WBB keep stacking wins beat Clemson !
The initial point is that she should’ve yelled at the inbounder, I believe was Nivar,, to pass to Taissa in the backcourt. That’s the best play, period.
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I totally agree with both of your points DSPHeel. That is on the coach. I would think you would have EA in the game in the closing minutes because she has a high FT percentage for our team. I do think that EA and NB will play a lot against Clemson if I am reading the pattern that CB has been doing lately. I think TH should play a lot against Clemson as well. We shall see.
I think it came down to knowing our best chance to win a close game vs the wolpfack in Reynolds on
Kay Yow night was to go with the players she thought were less likely to make a mistake. I think Coach CB
wants to play the WBB ladies deep in the rotation but she absolutely needed this win. As a coach you will always play the players you trust the most.
Pretty positive we will see EA, TH, NB, TQ and LH on Thursday. However, it is another must win to reach the TEAM GOALS set in the pre-season. Got to have it. Do whatever it take to win.
Keep stacking wins. Beat Clemson!
Kay Yow night was to go with the players she thought were less likely to make a mistake. I think Coach CB
wants to play the WBB ladies deep in the rotation but she absolutely needed this win. As a coach you will always play the players you trust the most.
Pretty positive we will see EA, TH, NB, TQ and LH on Thursday. However, it is another must win to reach the TEAM GOALS set in the pre-season. Got to have it. Do whatever it take to win.
Keep stacking wins. Beat Clemson!