UK Basketball with no GM

wccat

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I know a lot of people in this board doesn’t like Jeff Goodman but in this video I think he is spot on, imo.

1. UK fans are less worried about what Cal is doing than how our team is doing.
2. Need a GM but may be too late for next season. Agents are already talking to GMs.
3. Spent $22 mil but no dude.
4. Lowe wasn’t the answer at PG.

 

Anon1759768907

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I know a lot of people in this board doesn’t like Jeff Goodman but in this video I think he is spot on, imo.

1. UK fans are less worried about what Cal is doing than how our team is doing.
2. Need a GM but may be too late for next season. Agents are already talking to GMs.
3. Spent $22 mil but no dude.
4. Lowe wasn’t the answer at PG.


yeah, i mentioned it a month or two ago, but like wins and losses don't move me right now, because there's so many deep rooted issues with the program
 

Wildcat_in_DC

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every team in the NBA has a GM. half those teams have a .500 record or worse. someone please explain why a GM wouldnt fail....

if you have a great coach you dont need a GM. if you have a great GM and a crappy coach that no one wants to play for you will still lose lots of games. getting a GM solves nothing.
 
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FLBBNFAN

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every team in the NBA has a GM. half those teams have a .500 record or worse. someone please explain why a GM wouldnt fail....

if you have a great coach you dont need a GM. if you have a great GM and a crappy coach that no one wants to play for you will still lose lots of games. getting a GM solves nothing.
The difference will be easy to spot. Compare how Stein has structured the football program versus the basketball program. Its a smart move considering NIL and how college sports are now morphing into basically a professional league.

Stein is humming along with the recruiting and portal season because they are set up like a pro team. It will become more obvious over the next year and it will really contrast why Stein is doing well with bringing in good players and Pope isnt.

There is a reason every pro team has a GM and the smart college programs are adapting to the new environment. The coach needs to coach and develop talent . The coach needs to identify who he wants and then let a GM hammer out the contract details. Its obvious the way Pope is operating isnt working with recruiting and getting the portal players that he wants. A coach cant wear every hat and wont be strong at every duty hence a GM to handle all the administrative details and areas where a coach isn't strong.
 

UKBB4Ever

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UK doesn’t need a GM. And a GM wouldn’t help Pope.

Other than giving him another scapegoat like JMI.

UK has all the money they will ever need to spend on basketball. Unlimited resources actually.

But some are saying they will not give Pope the blank checkbook he’s had.

But the money is there. A $5 mil donor just told me he’s out on Pope but actually $5 mil is a drop in the bucket.

UK has connections to one person worth $8 billion thru the horse racing industry.

That’s not even counting the Saudi money in Lexington now.

The mismanagement of UK’s basketball NIL is on one person.

Adding another layer will not change that.
 

Wildcat_in_DC

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The difference will be easy to spot. Compare how Stein has structured the football program versus the basketball program. Its a smart move considering NIL and how college sports are now morphing into basically a professional league.

Stein is humming along with the recruiting and portal season because they are set up like a pro team. It will become more obvious over the next year and it will really contrast why Stein is doing well with bringing in good players and Pope isnt.

There is a reason every pro team has a GM and the smart college programs are adapting to the new environment. The coach needs to coach and develop talent . The coach needs to identify who he wants and then let a GM hammer out the contract details. Its obvious the way Pope is operating isnt working with recruiting and getting the portal players that he wants. A coach cant wear every hat and wont be strong at every duty hence a GM to handle all the administrative details and areas where a coach isn't strong.
its a smart move because stein hasnt coached a game yet. if he wins 4 games next year then what...

6 months ago every claimed pope "won the portal" and did an amazing job constructing this team. syracuse had a GM (until they fired him for an affair or something)....they suck.

in a pro organization the GM sits above the coach, that wont happen here. pope will just hire a guy that will do what he wants. how is that any different than the 4-5 assistant coaches we already have? when pope was hired everyone thought he had a killer staff. now it looks mediocre at best. GM solves nothing
 
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UKGrad24

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UK has administration problems and fund appropriation problems. None of this matters. The GM would likely be hand picked by the AD’s office anyway, with Mark’s stamp of approval. It wouldn’t help at all.

Until UK has a new administration whose sole concentration is winning to UK’s elite levels, nothing will change here at all. You likely need an elite coach who can’t be controlled to make that happen, and who shuts Barnhart back out of basketball and runs the entire show. It’s likely this is all we can do to better this unless the AD wishes to change his priorities, but cocaine Mitch isn’t happening with this one.

Basketball men in charge are the only thing who can save this.
 
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UKGrad24

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UK doesn’t need a GM. And a GM wouldn’t help Pope.

Other than giving him another scapegoat like JMI.

UK has all the money they will ever need to spend on basketball. Unlimited resources actually.

But some are saying they will not give Pope the blank checkbook he’s had.

But the money is there. A $5 mil donor just told me he’s out on Pope but actually $5 mil is a drop in the bucket.

UK has connections to one person worth $8 billion thru the horse racing industry.

That’s not even counting the Saudi money in Lexington now.

The mismanagement of UK’s basketball NIL is on one person.

Adding another layer will not change that.
UK has a major administration issue. Fund appropriation is really bad, all in charge want money going to where they want it. Donors aren’t on board it’s going to get worse.

Mark cannot stay here and neither can Mitch. If they do we’re screwed until major changes are made down the road. Enjoy beating UT I guess, the new standard under Mitch and Mark. Were ran by a pack of M&M’s.
 

Wildcat_in_DC

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UK doesn’t need a GM. And a GM wouldn’t help Pope.

Other than giving him another scapegoat like JMI.

UK has all the money they will ever need to spend on basketball. Unlimited resources actually.

But some are saying they will not give Pope the blank checkbook he’s had.

But the money is there. A $5 mil donor just told me he’s out on Pope but actually $5 mil is a drop in the bucket.

UK has connections to one person worth $8 billion thru the horse racing industry.

That’s not even counting the Saudi money in Lexington now.

The mismanagement of UK’s basketball NIL is on one person.

Adding another layer will not change that.
this is a really good point. GM or no GM.....with no NIL money flowing in, it wont really matter.

every year there is a portal loser. kansas, indiana, ksu from last year massively under performed to expectations after making big splashy portal moves. this year its us by a country mile. key will be to have funds available to keep trying. in this portal era you are just a year away from winning a title. but no one likes to see their money set on fire.
 

UKBB4Ever

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this is a really good point. GM or no GM.....with no NIL money flowing in, it wont really matter.

every year there is a portal loser. kansas, indiana, ksu from last year massively under performed to expectations after making big splashy portal moves. this year its us by a country mile. key will be to have funds available to keep trying. in this portal era you are just a year away from winning a title. but no one likes to see their money set on fire.
I’m not saying the money won’t be there. I’m sure it will. One person won’t make much difference.

Well, there is one person that could change everything. So far he’s playing his cards close to the vest. As always.

Someone above said it better. It’s not the money. It’s the administration of the money.

Supposedly UK paid more than anyone for the roster. I don’t know if that’s true or not.

It’s very hard to know exactly what was spent by UK. And impossible to know what others spent.

Whatever was spent wasn’t spent wisely.
 

KYSouthpaw

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Having a GM doesn’t guarantee success, but not having one guarantees inefficiency in a professionalized CBB system. Every pro team has a GM not because GMs never fail, but because asking a head coach to do two full-time jobs is organizational malpractice.

College basketball has effectively become a pro league with NIL, the portal, contracts, and roster churn, and it’s unrealistic to expect a coach to both coach/develop players and manage all the admin, negotiating, and roster-building details.

Who picked Will Stein's GM...Mitch or Will?
 

0r1c

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every team in the NBA has a GM. half those teams have a .500 record or worse. someone please explain why a GM wouldnt fail....

if you have a great coach you dont need a GM. if you have a great GM and a crappy coach that no one wants to play for you will still lose lots of games. getting a GM solves nothing.
Every team in the NBA has a GM, so it is not a variable. You can’t logically form an opinion about its effectiveness based on team record alone. You can only evaluate whether a specific team’s GM is effective, not whether having a GM itself is effective.
 
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FLBBNFAN

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UK doesn’t need a GM. And a GM wouldn’t help Pope.

Other than giving him another scapegoat like JMI.

UK has all the money they will ever need to spend on basketball. Unlimited resources actually.

But some are saying they will not give Pope the blank checkbook he’s had.

But the money is there. A $5 mil donor just told me he’s out on Pope but actually $5 mil is a drop in the bucket.

UK has connections to one person worth $8 billion thru the horse racing industry.

That’s not even counting the Saudi money in Lexington now.

The mismanagement of UK’s basketball NIL is on one person.

Adding another layer will not change that.
I would disagree and Pope needs help with off the court transactions. If his staff is helping then they are not competent which is n
its a smart move because stein hasnt coached a game yet. if he wins 4 games next year then what...

6 months ago every claimed pope "won the portal" and did an amazing job constructing this team. syracuse had a GM (until they fired him for an affair or something)....they suck.

in a pro organization the GM sits above the coach, that wont happen here. pope will just hire a guy that will do what he wants. how is that any different than the 4-5 assistant coaches we already have? when pope was hired everyone thought he had a killer staff. now it looks mediocre at best. GM solves nothing
4 wins does not define a successful GM especially in year one of a new coach building the program. Our football GM isn't over Stein but rather they report to him. Would be the same with Pope because college has some differences with the coach/gm hierarchy.

Like I said the answer will be evident over the next year and we will know for sure.
 
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FLBBNFAN

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Every team in the NBA has a GM, so it is not a variable. You can’t logically form an opinion about its effectiveness based on team record alone. You can only evaluate whether a specific team’s GM is effective, not whether having a GM itself is effective.
Agree 100%. The two scenarios are completely different.
 

FLBBNFAN

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this is a really good point. GM or no GM.....with no NIL money flowing in, it wont really matter.

every year there is a portal loser. kansas, indiana, ksu from last year massively under performed to expectations after making big splashy portal moves. this year its us by a country mile. key will be to have funds available to keep trying. in this portal era you are just a year away from winning a title. but no one likes to see their money set on fire.
Agreed if there are no funds then its a moot point lol. Guess we would just hold tryouts. So sad with the position we are in.
 

Wildcat_in_DC

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I would disagree and Pope needs help with off the court transactions. If his staff is helping then they are not competent which is n
4 wins does not define a successful GM especially in year one of a new coach building the program. Our football GM isn't over Stein but rather they report to him. Would be the same with Pope because college has some differences with the coach/gm hierarchy.

Like I said the answer will be evident over the next year and we will know for sure.
so a GM that brings in players that are not good that leads to losses does not define if that GM is successful or not......what world am i living in......
 
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Some of this is just like well duh...........lol

I mean.......only people obsessed with a hatred of Cal would care more about what he and Arkansas is doing compared to their own team. Most level headed UK fans don't give a flying you know what about Arkansas. Especially given in our current state.

Lowe not being a PG I'm not sure is a fair assessment. Yes we knew he couldn't shoot. But he's played a grand total of 9 games this season. He does do some things well and I think we are a better team with him running point than anyone else we have.
 

FLBBNFAN

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so a GM that brings in players that are not good that leads to losses does not define if that GM is successful or not......what world am i living in......
I will speak slowly for you this time. The coach picks the players and then the GM finalizes all the contract details. Again Pope picks the guys, the GM is an administrator and reports to Pope. College GM's have a different role versus GM's in the pros.
 

Wildcat_in_DC

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I will speak slowly for you this time. The coach picks the players and then the GM finalizes all the contract details. Again Pope picks the guys, the GM is an administrator and reports to Pope. College GM's have a different role versus GM's in the pros.
thats not a "GM"......thats a lawyer.
 

The Nightman2

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Having a GM doesn’t guarantee success, but not having one guarantees inefficiency in a professionalized CBB system. Every pro team has a GM not because GMs never fail, but because asking a head coach to do two full-time jobs is organizational malpractice.

College basketball has effectively become a pro league with NIL, the portal, contracts, and roster churn, and it’s unrealistic to expect a coach to both coach/develop players and manage all the admin, negotiating, and roster-building details.

Who picked Will Stein's GM...Mitch or Will?
Stein brought Pat Biondo with him from Oregon
 

*Fox2Monk*

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Having a GM doesn’t guarantee success, but not having one guarantees inefficiency in a professionalized CBB system. Every pro team has a GM not because GMs never fail, but because asking a head coach to do two full-time jobs is organizational malpractice.

College basketball has effectively become a pro league with NIL, the portal, contracts, and roster churn, and it’s unrealistic to expect a coach to both coach/develop players and manage all the admin, negotiating, and roster-building details.

Who picked Will Stein's GM...Mitch or Will?
Exactly, it’s obvious he has no clue how to judge market value, and I am not sold this staff knows how to recruit a team that fits that well together. They sure don’t teach the guys they do get to play good basketball.
 
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Old Blue Fart

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I read all this talk about a basketball GM and the only thing I think is how all this is getting like the cesspool of BS we see in politics.
Create new positions, get bigger, gotta have more, more, more.

Just play the damn game without all the BS
 
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CRZ4UK

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The difference will be easy to spot. Compare how Stein has structured the football program versus the basketball program. Its a smart move considering NIL and how college sports are now morphing into basically a professional league.

Stein is humming along with the recruiting and portal season because they are set up like a pro team. It will become more obvious over the next year and it will really contrast why Stein is doing well with bringing in good players and Pope isnt.

There is a reason every pro team has a GM and the smart college programs are adapting to the new environment. The coach needs to coach and develop talent . The coach needs to identify who he wants and then let a GM hammer out the contract details. Its obvious the way Pope is operating isnt working with recruiting and getting the portal players that he wants. A coach cant wear every hat and wont be strong at every duty hence a GM to handle all the administrative details and areas where a coach isn't strong.
Im not trying to be negative but im not exactly sure where all the positivity from Steins recruiting is coming from?? He was too late for HS. His Portal class was #9. Stoops last 2 portal classes were 13th and 6th. Seems about the same to me. Ranked wise at least. We were said to be in the running for Sam Levitt. We missed. Stoops got Levis and Devin Leary. Both pretty high on others boards. We ended up with Kenny Menchie?? Someone I had never heard of. Don’t slam. Just explain why the positivity. Maybe I’m missing it??
 
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peterpiper09

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I’m not sure I would be on board with the GM stuff. To me that’s what assistant coaches and such are for. Maybe we need to shake up the assistant coaches a little bit. Why do they need to give somebody else a high paying job to do the same thing that the six or seven sitting on the bench are supposed to do?
 

Anon1759768907

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I’m not sure I would be on board with the GM stuff. To me that’s what assistant coaches and such are for. Maybe we need to shake up the assistant coaches a little bit. Why do they need to give somebody else a high paying job to do the same thing that the six or seven sitting on the bench are supposed to do?
if hart or alvin brooks cant get you a recruit somethings wrong

dont think its their fault
 
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I think people get stuck on whether or not a GM will help or not and miss that technically we have the responsibilities of a GM spread about amongst several of the staff currently. Mark Fox is our defacto GM currently if you had to pick anyone who wears the most GM role hats verses Pope doing it all himself.

The problem, as we have heard from various sources, recruits, agents, etc is multi-dimensional. We don't have anyone in house currently who is keyed in enough into the ACTUAL value in NIL dollars for these high level recruits and competing schools are using that against us. Pope refuses to get into bidding wars with other programs over a player he wants. This staff is VERY secretive about their NIL offerings with insiders and multiple sources said often won't even give a concrete NIL dollar offer, just potential earnings. Other programs know this and make fake offers for kids they don't want and make UK overpay for them by not knowing the actual player value. We also apparently don't make promises to players because "this is Kentucky...." and Pope gets emotional if a player isn't sold on playing for the name on the front of the jersey.

Not just a GM, but a plugged in GM who has navigated NIL, knows player value, can evaluate talent, knows how to negotiate, and can speak the language the players and agents need to hear, as well as navigate donors, JMI, and the administration, and can talk tough with Nike and get us into a better position with them, would go miles for the program in landing recruits. Pope and his staff can focus on coaching, and talent evaluation, recruiting who they want, and player development, etc and simply tell the GM who Pope and company want and to go get it done. Bonus points for a younger GM who played in the NBA and can connect with recruits, and/or with current NBA connections, a law background, experience as a GM, etc. I actually think Bruce Pearl would take that job and his age wouldn't be as big of a concern as say being a head coach. Maybe the board wouldn't be so harsh at that hire since he wouldn't be the face of UK basketball. Someone could argue a former player like Rondo, Prince, or Wall might excel given a position like that. Or poaching a recently let go GM from an NBA team. Regardless of who, we need a pit bull closer who gets the guys our staff wants at UK.

I think Pope can coach, I really do. (a completely other discussion needed on why), but I think he needs to just focus on that. I think he does a decent job of recruiting and getting us to the table with high caliber players. I just don't think he can close. The less we have to rely on him trying to shove recruiting across the goal line, the better, for the program it seems. The "right" GM hire, can do that. There isn't a world where I think Alvin Brooks and Jason Hart can't recruit. So it's either Pope can't close, the JMI deal is trash for elite basketball players, or we don't have the money people claim we do. And I refuse to believe we don't have the money. I don't think a GM solves all the issues. I do think a GM solves a few fixable ones.

The immediate fix is firing Mitch and burning down anyone in his athletic department tree that might replace him. Complete fresh new AD hire with no UK connections.
 

Wildcat_in_DC

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uconn and florida

matter of fact its really rare to find a competitivr cbb program without onr
teams that dont have a GM:
  • #1 arizona
  • #2 michigan
  • #4 duke
  • #6 illinios
  • #7 iowa state
  • #8 houston
  • #10 michigan state
doesnt seem that rare actually.

teams that do have a GM:
  • syracuse (13-9)
  • penn state (10-12)
  • fsu (10-12)
  • cinncy (11-11)
 

Anon1759768907

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teams that dont have a GM:
  • #1 arizona
  • #2 michigan
  • #4 duke
  • #6 illinios
  • #7 iowa state
  • #8 houston
  • #10 michigan state
doesnt seem that rare actually.

teams that do have a GM:
  • syracuse (13-9)
  • penn state (10-12)
  • fsu (10-12)
  • cinncy (11-11)
those programs don't have recruiting issues like us at all tho, we need help anyway we can get it
 
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Wildcat_in_DC

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those programs don't have recruiting issues like us at all tho, we need help anyway we can get it
is that the purpose now? i mean we had an elite recruiter......

# of top 25 recruiting classes the last 3 years:
  • arizona: 2
  • michigan: 0
  • duke: 3
  • illinois: 0
  • iowa state: 1
  • houston: 2
  • msu: 3
duke/arizona have always recruited at a high level. everyone else...meh. msu sneaks into the 20-25 range. in comparison uk had 2....
 

Anon1759768907

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is that the purpose now? i mean we had an elite recruiter......

# of top 25 recruiting classes the last 3 years:
  • arizona: 2
  • michigan: 0
  • duke: 3
  • illinois: 0
  • iowa state: 1
  • houston: 2
  • msu: 3
duke/arizona have always recruited at a high level. everyone else...meh. msu sneaks into the 20-25 range. in comparison uk had 2....
i get your point, but every single team u listed also has an amazing coach
not to mention we don't have a class in general let alone a top 25 class
 
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