The part worrying me the most is that we have ZERO committed for next year. Stokes should have been a lock and from what I understand the JMI BS has cost us at least one. So while I really wanted Pope to succeed I can’t see how he gets there. If we make it to April with no commitments I think a change has to happen.
BB: VIDEO: Kentucky and Mark Pope’s Injury Nightmare is a Statistical Impossibility
- Thread starter I’m The Village Idiot
- Start date
The team could be perfectly healthy and would still be on the losing end of most games. The talent level is two notches below what is expected at Kentucky.
Last year I think the injuries hurt us. I’m not sure this year we wouldn’t be 14-7 if nobody had missed a single game.
Im so glad you started this thread because I thought maybe I was overreacting to our injuries. Obviously JQ is a different situation but other than that I cant think of any team ever that has had the amount of injuries we have incurred in our hoops program.
Jax messed up his wrist in practice last year and Lowe hurt his shoulder initially in summer practice. Carr with his back injury during practice . Williams and Kerr with broken feet . What are we doing at practice? Now Goose is saying our practices are poor.
Add Oweh with turf toe, Butler and his shoulder and the list keeps going. Naturally injuries happen but there has to be something off to have so many in less than 2 years. The best is we can't get Hawthorne on the floor because he's injured as well ? WTF is going on with our strength and conditioning. Lastly Moreno looks worn out after 6 minutes on the floor, just sad.
You aren’t overreacting at all. Most of us underreact to it. Doesn’t excuse poor play but does explain why it’s hard to sustain anything.
Sorry but that is just not a reasonable expectation to want us to have a backup PG like every other team lol. That is inexcusable in my opinion especially given what happened to us last year.
If folks don’t want to give Pope any credit for last season, then they need to find somebody to give it to because it was impressive. There is no way that team should have been routinely winning games after Butler’s injury – he was basically a place-holder who could at least dribble (which UK desperately needed) after that - followed immediately by Kriisa’s injury. From then on UK had NO PG - absolutely none – when Butler couldn’t go, and a gutty one-armed ball-handler when he could. Then you lose Robinson who was an ok Wing (I was not a big fan at all) but was an absolute middle-school (if that) level as a PG. So, Pope uses his Center (Williams) as his de-facto PG. On top of that the most underappreciated piece, the PF (Carr), was handicapped by a back injury (my guess is a number of folks here can talk about how frustratingly limiting that can be).
A fan can be honest and think this year is bad and Pope’s fault (which in my mind it is, regardless of injuries because the roster wasn’t constructed well enough) and that Pope isn’t going to be successful enough for a blue-blood like UK going forward (which I also suspect may be true), but still give credit where credit is due. If someone thinks UK’s results should have been better last season after the injury debacle then I’m sorry but I think they're the most casual of casual fans in regard to understanding the game of basketball.
Truthfully, the best version of Mark Pope would probably come from finding the hungry portal guys from the G5 level. You probably won’t make the Final Four that way but you’ll have a more entertaining team.
If Duke had zero recruits coming in, missed every target in the portal, consistently had teams blow them out over the last 2 years, not having a backup point guard on the roster, constantly falling behind by double digits in the first half, no consistent rotation pattern, players regressing and players who are not giving 100% consistently. Injuries do happen but not at this rate so something is off with our strength and conditioning. Moreno is gassed after less than 10 minutes.
Scheyer would absolutely be on the hot seat because Duke would not tolerate another year of poor performance. I hate seeing one of our guys struggling as a coach and I dont want Cal back. If Pope wasn't one of our guys he would be on his way out and probably would have never interviewed for this job.
The guy is not built to handle this job and its painfully obvious. If Pope was running your business would you retain him for another year. The honest answer is you would not.
Popes culture enables quitting and nursing minor injuries. When it’s a statistical impossibility that means some of what’s happening aren’t injuries at all. There are types of athletes sometimes elite who are afraid to fail. So what do they do? They embellish injury. Some programs have a culture that is even easier to pull this off. The empathetic coach gig for a stubbed toe has opened Pandora’s box for pope. I mean this guy brought an injured player and that guy took advantage of popes attitude towards things. Half the injuries could have been played through. Robinson and Lowe both I feel are avoidance type players both elected surgery. Basically if things are too mentally difficult pull a ratface and fake a back injury or have season ending surgery. Mark will be there with a hug. This is a mental syndrome with our program not a product of actually losing players to injury. We haven’t even see most of these injuries occur. They happen in practice and if you miss that layup well it’s the knee or whatever. Pope has turn UK from a place you can’t hide to a place you go to hide. Pope isn’t just some unlucky dude. These types of psychological issues with players embellishing injury are very real. Pope seems to have recruited a lot of these types of players.
What has transpired on our recruiting front to give you hope that next year will be different. One bad year (with the injuries is one thing) but we have zero momentum or enthusiasm in the program right now. What is happening in recruiting also has to be considered in the evaluation of things. Rolling into next year with no elite recruits signed and hoping like hell we pull some some studs in the same portal that we failed in last year is not a great recipe for success. What happens next year when we suck again but maybe he gets lucky with a stud recruit or two. We have to see what he can do in year 4 now? Sorry but pope at UK is flawed and not going to work. He doesn’t have the aura to sustain success. UK job requires a type A personality for starters and pope is nowhere close to that.
Injuries won’t bail him out and let’s seee how the remainder of the season plays out before any definitive statements. And you have to accept right now that you would have and will never see a full pope team. He goes for these types because elite programs don’t want them and elite players don’t want to play for pope. I think uk athletics right now the over all random sports fans thinks our athletic department culture is very strange.
I think a third year right now is so far from given I think Pope has a lot of work to do. What you’re saying is the trauma of having one of the worst football programs in the country and the low expectations that come along would be in a fan of that team. It’s now spilling over into Basketball. You know football coaches get a third year basketball coaches should be able to make a team year one year two if you’re not winning, you’re not gonna win. I think you’re gonna be a lot of pressure on pope to come to some sort of settlement with the university so that he goes out on his own because next year there won’t be that opportunity he could be fired midseason next year if it’s anything like this oneI particularly love the posters who say, “Yeah, unfortunately Pope will get another season to make things right, but he hasn’t earned one, and it’s going to be even worse than this season, but he has to get a 3rd season, because, uh um, yeah well, the injuries and, yeah he’s getting a 3rd season because, uh um, I wouldn’t if I were Mitch but, yeah it sucks, but it is what it is…”
Now and forget that why would we want that Mark Pope can’t coach I mean put Pitino‘s gonna make him a better coach no pitino could just coach the team how about that and Pope can watch from the stands it’s his mentality. It’s not just his X’s and O’s. He has a weak mentality that strong elite players don’t want to play for that’s who he is. he isn’t changing he’s geared to be a woman’s coach.
I mean there’s nothing in his past to suggest he will magically figure it out. That plus no recruits for next year are why many would like to go ahead and move on.
Year one was not some great thing. We were awful by our standards. The trend is going the wrong direction which proves last year was smoke and mirrors. Popes ceiling is sweet sixteen on a good draw. He can’t win in the reg season to get us a good seed. Seems like this may be dukes year. And Duke is making up ground with Barney as ad heck they are going to pass us with quart century Barney at the helm
When his 26-27 roster is complete I'll talk ti you about whether or not I am excited about it or not
well lets use the past as a measure for the future, the last two pope seasons have had underwhelming rosters
1st year he got to a sweet 16 which genuinely impressed me, but there were games where the talent difference showed
this season had me confused at several chocies
and next year has no incoming freshman stars, so once again we have to push all our chips in on the portal, which could be a down year like it was a couple years ago
See, you lose me on criticizing last seasons roster. This is January and you and many others are killing him for not having a 5 star HS recruit. He began this job in MID APRIL and was able to put together an entire roster that went to the S16, and IMO, would have gone E8 or FF without key injuries. So how the Hell can he not add 3-4 players to the returnees he has coming back next year and not field a good team? Is it possible he doesn't sign a stud or two? Yes. Is it also possible he signs the top portal player, a top reclass and an overseas kid that is a star? Is that possible Bro? So yeah, I will wait till the cake is baked on next years class before I decide if it tastes good or not
i know but that diamond in the rough stuff never works, you can't just grab a guy and hope he turns into a 18ppg guy
just get a guy thats good already
There is no point. If it was my decision he’s gone now and wouldn’t be allowed to finish this season.
The ones that do decide will not fire him.
I would love to be wrong on that. Hell, even TVI is offering to bet Pope will get a 3rd year. Doesn’t look like anyone is betting him.
Now, if Mitch comes out with the dreaded vote of confidence in the next month or so I’ll have hope.
Can't we do that in the portal? Yaxel Lendeborg, Ryan Conwell, Bennett Stirtz, all were portal guys last season. Add the equivalent of 1-2 of those guys and an impact player from either overseas or reclass...and thats if we don't get a top HS player from this class, which is not likely but not impossible
i mean hypothetically we can but theres 2 problems with that
1. a stud actually has to enter the portal, keep in mind a couple years ago the number one guy was oumar ballo
2. you gotta actually get one of those guys, if a stud enters the portal, and you have NO incoming freshman you have to go all in, so you cant miss like we did last cycle
I know this isn’t topic related but does anyone have a link to that Owen, Moreno inbound confusion against Vanderbilt?
All good points. I especially like the one about helping where help is not needed.
Its just about picking the right kids. The Cats should actually have a real nice group of role players returning. They will need another good PG, a legit shooter/scoring wing, and an athletic PF. Knowing what to target should make it easier to find those specific things IMO
6 of the top 10 recruits are still unsigned and we are listed with 2 of those 6 left. If I was a top 10 recruit, I'd wait until the last minute to sign with whoever I sign with...fwiw.
As for this year...I think it boils down to 3 things, mostly..
1)I think the biggie that nobody seems to mention is chemistry. This team doesn't have it. Maybe due to...
2)Continuity issue, due to....
30Injuries.
Sure, we also have seen what looks like poor coaching, preparedness and yes, roster construction problems. Again, some or even a lot of that likely looks a lot different without the 3 reasons I listed. No real b/u pg hurts but it's hard to blame Pope for a top signee reneging on his commitment, pretty late in the game in last signing period, too. I do think this was a miss, Pope not signing a decent b/u pg in the portal, though. I can see why he didn't, but hindsight is 20/20 and he should've.
It's pretty crazy to think about what Pope has had to work through to this point, really. I reall don't think ANY coach wants to swap places with him right now and I don't think any other coach can fix the real issue with this team at this point in the season. Biggest issue is chemistry. My eyes tell me it's mostly Oweh, but my gut tells me that Moreno may also be an issue on this roster, in that regard. IDK...just my gut feeling. I hope not!
But, it's Pope's job to know who the problem is and to make damn sure that problem doesn't carry over to next season, even if that means a complete overhaul.
As for this year...I think it boils down to 3 things, mostly..
1)I think the biggie that nobody seems to mention is chemistry. This team doesn't have it. Maybe due to...
2)Continuity issue, due to....
30Injuries.
Sure, we also have seen what looks like poor coaching, preparedness and yes, roster construction problems. Again, some or even a lot of that likely looks a lot different without the 3 reasons I listed. No real b/u pg hurts but it's hard to blame Pope for a top signee reneging on his commitment, pretty late in the game in last signing period, too. I do think this was a miss, Pope not signing a decent b/u pg in the portal, though. I can see why he didn't, but hindsight is 20/20 and he should've.
It's pretty crazy to think about what Pope has had to work through to this point, really. I reall don't think ANY coach wants to swap places with him right now and I don't think any other coach can fix the real issue with this team at this point in the season. Biggest issue is chemistry. My eyes tell me it's mostly Oweh, but my gut tells me that Moreno may also be an issue on this roster, in that regard. IDK...just my gut feeling. I hope not!
But, it's Pope's job to know who the problem is and to make damn sure that problem doesn't carry over to next season, even if that means a complete overhaul.
So injuries are causing his teams to go into games totally unprepared REPEATEDLY over his 57 games? Injuries are causing his teams to play with an alarming amount of lack of effort in his 57 games? Injuries have caused his team to quit MULTIPLE times in his 57 games? Injuries have caused his teams to look absolutely clueless on defense REPEATEDLY over his 57 games?
I'm sorry, but that is a bunch of crap. All of those things are coaching issues that hare huge red flags, irregardless of who is on the roster. Then you add in being a total dud of a recruiter, and all of those are fireable offense despite the 38-19 record.
Kansas has played probably the best half of basketball I have seen any team play this season today. Let me pick three of their top 7 to knock out for the season and they would be losing. Get out of here with that crap
Kam Williams wasn't top 7 most of the season. Keep moving those goal posts. I'm gonna call u kneepads cowgirl as u are always on ur knees ready for pope.
Well for starters, we were playing good defense at the end of last season, even without our best on ball defender.
Effort isn't due to injuries but injuries and chemistry can make it look terrible. It does!
I'm as frustrated as you are but I don't think ANY coach can step in and fix it at this point of the season. Pope will be here next year so get behind him or get out of here.
Another inbred hillbilly going to the homophobic crap. Your subconscious acting up maybe?
Kam Williams was starting and coming around from 3 when he got hurt. Pretending he wasn't a huge loss make you look even stupider than you are, which is tough
The injuries just give him an excuse for one more year. They have had a massive impact but he’s still not the dude even with a full roster.
Mark Pope has failed abysmally with a $40 to 50 million dollar investment, once all the coaching salaries, player salaries, transportation costs, and other aspects are factored in.
Those who are defending him need to consider that they are defending a failure that would not be met with patience in any other avenue of life, outside of perhaps woke Hollywood, Congress, and a few other industries.
Those who are defending him need to consider that they are defending a failure that would not be met with patience in any other avenue of life, outside of perhaps woke Hollywood, Congress, and a few other industries.
Lol guys cowgirl is getting upset. The only people defending this Pope disaster at present are imbreds like u.
I would agree that no coach is going to step in right now and turn it around. The problem is that I am convinced that Pope isn’t the guy to turn around for next season. Nothing in his background says that he is other than he played for the 1996 Cats. Go look up his resume and you will see the same issues pop over and over. The same up and down play. The same poor starts.
i just have to laugh at your get behind him or get out of here stance. All of us here want UK to win and win big. A lot of us know a dud when we see one and Pope is a dud.