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kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,462
70,653
113

Anony Moose said:
Yea! Players aren't perfect and will have bad games.

Do you not understand that taking 19 shots to score 20 pts is atrocious, right? Particularly considering 4 of his pts came from FTs. So he actually scored 15 points on 20 FG attempts. Lulz.

Against Ole miss, 12 FG attempts to score 23 pts. At first glance, that isn't bad, but in closer review, he scored 10 pts on FTs. So he took 12 FG to net 13 pts. That's awful. And he had 1 board and 2 turnovers.

Against TX. 20 FGs to score 18 pts. He had 2 FTs, so really 20 Fgs to score 16. 3 board and 1 steal.

Against UT, 11 FG to score 12 points in 11 FG attempts. 5 FTs. So 11 FG for 7 points. 1 rebiund, 1 assist, 3 turnovers.

That's just the last 4 games.

He is a ball hog who shoots way too much and does little else when on the court. Poor attitude, poor effort, team cancer.
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Yeah, we get it, he's inefficient, but the other guys are even more inefficient. On top of that, none of the other guys can get open to take their own shots, with the exception of DA and JJ, but do we really want to see JJ get more time after watching him last night? I sure don't.

Yeah, Oweh shoots the ball a lot, but that's because he's actually trying, that's more than I can say about most of the other guys on the team.

Additionally, Oweh is the best rebounder and on-ball defender we have and it’s not close.

Noah and Jasper can’t guard anybody in this league, that's a fact and if they play on Saturday, they will get cooked.

You have no argument. Yeah, it sucks that Oweh is our best player, but benching him and giving his minutes to those 4 guys, is a sure way to lose every SEC game you play.
 
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Anony Moose

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kyjeff1 said:
Yeah, we get it, he's inefficient, but the other guys are even more inefficient. On top of that, none of the other guys can get open to take their own shots, with the exception of DA and JJ, but do we really want to see JJ get more time after watching him last night? I sure don't.

Yeah, Oweh shoots the ball a lot, but that's because he's actually trying, that's more than I can say about most of the other guys on the team.

Additionally, Oweh is the best rebounder and on-ball defender we have and it’s not close.

Noah and Jasper can’t guard anybody in this league, that's a fact and if they play on Saturday, they will get cooked.

You have no argument. Yeah, it sucks that Oweh is our best player, but benching him and giving his minutes to those 4 guys, is a sure way to lose every SEC game you play.
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Except they are more efficient. The metric prove it.

Oweh can't get his own shot either. It's very often a turnover or brick at the rim.

It's not because he is trying. It's because he is padding his stats and auditioning for the NBA. He does it because he is a ball hog.

He is not our best rebounder. He is literally 4th behind MM, Mo D, JQ. He is .2 higher tha Jelly.
4.3 boards a game is atrocious for someone of his size and strength playing the 3.

He ranked 5th in defense efficiency. Noah actually ranks ahead of him. Offensively he's 7th.

Except Noah actually ranked higher than Oweh on D efficiency. So the metrics say he isn't worse.

We are already losing, genius. Try something different.
 
BlueSince92

BlueSince92

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Jul 2, 2025
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preston-lemasterpiece said:
weird take
Click to expand...
I'll try harder for your approval, darling
❤️
 
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kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,462
70,653
113
Anony Moose said:
Except they are more efficient. The metric prove it.

Oweh can't get his own shot either. It's very often a turnover or brick at the rim.

It's not because he is trying. It's because he is padding his stats and auditioning for the NBA. He does it because he is a ball hog.

He is not our best rebounder. He is literally 4th behind MM, Mo D, JQ. He is .2 higher tha Jelly.
4.3 boards a game is atrocious for someone of his size and strength playing the 3.

He ranked 5th in defense efficiency. Noah actually ranks ahead of him. Offensively he's 7th.

Except Noah actually ranked higher than Oweh on D efficiency. So the metrics say he isn't worse.

We are already losing, genius. Try something different.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we're losing games, but the fact that Oweh is scoring 20ppg in league play, is the main reason for that.
You hate the guy for some reason, seems personal.
No coach is going to sit one of only 3 players he has that are actually producing.
If you bench Oweh, not only will we continue to lose, but we will completely tank the season.
At least now, we're in the tournament, your idea has us losing the rest of the way.
I don't care that Oweh is inefficient, the issue is, the only guys you can possibly replace him with, are walk ons, guys already getting 28-30 and guys that are unplayable (Jasper).
Noah is a glorified walk on, the fact you think he should get any of OO's minutes, tells me you have no idea what you're looking at.
 
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Anony Moose

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kyjeff1 said:
Yeah, we're losing games, but the fact that Oweh is scoring 20ppg in league play, is the main reason for that.
You hate the guy for some reason, seems personal.
No coach is going to sit one of only 3 players he has that are actually producing.
If you bench Oweh, not only will we continue to lose, but we will completely tank the season.
At least now, we're in the tournament, your idea has us losing the rest of the way.
I don't care that Oweh is inefficient, the issue is, the only guys you can possibly replace him with, are walk ons, guys already getting 28-30 and guys that are unplayable (Jasper).
Noah is a glorified walk on, the fact you think he should get any of OO's minutes, tells me you have no idea what you're looking at.
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Wait. So you agree Oweh is the problem?

No hate at all. Don't even know him personally. But, maybe being honest in my assessment is considered hating to soft people.

Have we tried it yet? So you're just projecting that will happen. We've been playing Oweh all season and still have been getting our asses kicked. Even against **** teams. Doing the same **** over and over expecting different outcomes os the definition of insanity. Why keep doing it?

Except, according to the metrics they are on par or better. So let's try it and see if the metrics are right or not. Easy way to shut me up would be to try it and see it fail.

Lol, we aren't currently in the tournament. We are a bubble team, while playing Oweh.

Noah has better D and O efficiency than Oweh. The metrics say you're wrong.
 
kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,462
70,653
113
Anony Moose said:
Wait. So you agree Oweh is the problem?

No hate at all. Don't even know him personally. But, maybe being honest in my assessment is considered hating to soft people.

Have we tried it yet? So you're just projecting that will happen. We've been playing Oweh all season and still have been getting our asses kicked. Even against **** teams. Doing the same **** over and over expecting different outcomes os the definition of insanity. Why keep doing it?

Except, according to the metrics they are on par or better. So let's try it and see if the metrics are right or not. Easy way to shut me up would be to try it and see it fail.

Lol, we aren't currently in the tournament. We are a bubble team, while playing Oweh.

Noah has better D and O efficiency than Oweh. The metrics say you're wrong.
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The problem is, Oweh is our best, most productive player and he should never be more than a complimentary guy. Is what it is, I didn't build the roster and neither did OO.

The other problem is, there is nobody on this team that you can put in his place. If we had a better option, I would agree with you, but we don't have a better option.

Chandler, Moreno, Noah, and Jasper played a total of 86 minutes last night and in that time shot 4-18. while playing no defense, turned it over, committed dumb fouls, and didn't rebound.

You have Oweh, Moreno, DA, Chandler and Mo as your best 5 players, those guys have to play. If Jelevic is hitting shots, you play him over Mo, but there is nobody else that should actually be in a UK uniform, playing in any SEC game.

If Kam, Lowe and JQ were playing, you could sub Oweh out for Kam, but putting JJ, or Noah in the game, is just an awful decision. They both suck and can't defend a chair.

It’s not like Oweh plays 40mpg, when he rests, JJ and/or Noah comes in, so we know what it looks like and it’s not good.
 
U

UKortho

All-American
Oct 13, 2015
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These are some bad offensive efficiency numbers for last night’s game.
 

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Anony Moose

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kyjeff1 said:
The problem is, Oweh is our best, most productive player and he should never be more than a complimentary guy. Is what it is, I didn't build the roster and neither did OO.

The other problem is, there is nobody on this team that you can put in his place. If we had a better option, I would agree with you, but we don't have a better option.

Chandler, Moreno, Noah, and Jasper played a total of 86 minutes last night and in that time shot 4-18. while playing no defense, turned it over, committed dumb fouls, and didn't rebound.

You have Oweh, Moreno, DA, Chandler and Mo as your best 5 players, those guys have to play. If Jelevic is hitting shots, you play him over Mo, but there is nobody else that should actually be in a UK uniform, playing in any SEC game.

If Kam, Lowe and JQ were playing, you could sub Oweh out for Kam, but putting JJ, or Noah in the game, is just an awful decision. They both suck and can't defend a chair.

It’s not like Oweh plays 40mpg, when he rests, JJ and/or Noah comes in, so we know what it looks like and it’s not good.
Click to expand...
Except he isn't. We just try to make him be.

There's at least 3.

So they had a bad game. It does happen.

Oweh is not one of our best players.

Jelly should never play over Mo D. Just no.

Kam should have as well, but that's done. So now we need to try something else. Oweh ain't it if you've been watching.

Oweh needs to rest the entire first half. He doesn't play that half anyway. And we already get down double digits. Repeating the same behavior expecting different results is insanity.
 
U

UKortho

All-American
Oct 13, 2015
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kyjeff1 said:
The problem is, Oweh is our best, most productive player and he should never be more than a complimentary guy. Is what it is, I didn't build the roster and neither did OO.

The other problem is, there is nobody on this team that you can put in his place. If we had a better option, I would agree with you, but we don't have a better option.

Chandler, Moreno, Noah, and Jasper played a total of 86 minutes last night and in that time shot 4-18. while playing no defense, turned it over, committed dumb fouls, and didn't rebound.

You have Oweh, Moreno, DA, Chandler and Mo as your best 5 players, those guys have to play. If Jelevic is hitting shots, you play him over Mo, but there is nobody else that should actually be in a UK uniform, playing in any SEC game.

If Kam, Lowe and JQ were playing, you could sub Oweh out for Kam, but putting JJ, or Noah in the game, is just an awful decision. They both suck and can't defend a chair.

It’s not like Oweh plays 40mpg, when he rests, JJ and/or Noah comes in, so we know what it looks like and it’s not good.
Click to expand...

Oweh looks really bad when accounting for all games this year.
 

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LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

Heisman
Aug 5, 2015
38,815
60,837
113
Eastkybball said:
Every player on this team is a disgrace to the players that came before.
Pope I love you as a player and part of this program history but you cannot do this job.
Back and forth I go and a lot of ppls opinions change but I so wanted to believe you could do this job. You are not honoring the coaches who dedicated their lives to Kentucky basketball.
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Im becoming more and more convinced that these were mostly poor mentality players who used UK for a big pay day. Its starting to point to some real issues getting talent here, where we are resorting to 3rd 4th and 5th options. These guys dont want to play for Kentucky or Pope.. they say 7 figures and sai "sure, ill take away day to come hang out in Lexington for 6 months".
 
kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,462
70,653
113
Anony Moose said:
Except he isn't. We just try to make him be.

There's at least 3.

So they had a bad game. It does happen.

Oweh is not one of our best players.

Jelly should never play over Mo D. Just no.

Kam should have as well, but that's done. So now we need to try something else. Oweh ain't it if you've been watching.

Oweh needs to rest the entire first half. He doesn't play that half anyway. And we already get down double digits. Repeating the same behavior expecting different results is insanity.
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He is by far our most productive player, I didn't say "most efficient", that's the issue, you're looking at metrics that judge efficiency, the metric that ends up being the most important, is the box score.
If you (Noah) played 20 minutes against dipshit state and went 2-4 from 3 and 5-6 from the field and didn't turn the ball over, your metrics are going to look great, but that player doesn't usually play against the better teams, so his stats, again, look great.
Oweh doesn't get to NOT play, he plays every game and he gets everyone's best defenders, yet he still scores 20ppg.
Your metrics aren’t comparing apples to apples. Jasper, Noah and Chandler aren't getting the same minutes and same defenders as Oweh is.
Noah, Chandler and Johnson… combined… didn't produce what Oweh did last night
Again, you're comparing Noah's efficiency numbers to Oweh's, but Noah only plays against the scrub teams.
 
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kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,462
70,653
113
UKortho said:
Oweh looks really bad when accounting for all games this year.
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Great, but who are you going to replace him with that will produce? That's the problem.

I never said Oweh was Michael Jordan, I'm simply saying you have nobody on this roster that can get you 20/5/5 a game, you just don't.

We don't go on a 5 game winning streak if you sit Oweh and replace him with Noah, Johnson and Chandler. Those 3 combined can't do what Oweh does.
 
U

UKortho

All-American
Oct 13, 2015
4,994
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kyjeff1 said:
Great, but who are you going to replace him with that will produce? That's the problem.

I never said Oweh was Michael Jordan, I'm simply saying you have nobody on this roster that can get you 20/5/5 a game, you just don't.

We don't go on a 5 game winning streak if you sit Oweh and replace him with Noah, Johnson and Chandler. Those 3 combined can't do what Oweh does.
Click to expand...

I am not disagreeing I get that he has to play. The O ratings aren’t always the best indicator. For example- Jasper’s rating is higher. I was surprised that his was that low.
 
A

Anony Moose

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kyjeff1 said:
He is by far our most productive player, I didn't say "most efficient", that's the issue, you're looking at metrics that judge efficiency, the metric that ends up being the most important, is the box score.
If you (Noah) played 20 minutes against dipshit state and went 2-4 from 3 and 5-6 from the field and didn't turn the ball over, your metrics are going to look great, but that player doesn't usually play against the better teams, so his stats, again, look great.
Oweh doesn't get to NOT play, he plays every game and he gets everyone's best defenders, yet he still scores 20ppg.
Your metrics aren’t comparing apples to apples. Jasper, Noah and Chandler aren't getting the same minutes and same defenders as Oweh is.
Noah, Chandler and Johnson… combined… didn't produce what Oweh did last night
Again, you're comparing Noah's efficiency numbers to Oweh's, but Noah only plays against the scrub teams.
Click to expand...
Except he isn't. Not even close. The same metrics literally prove that. Jacking up a bunch more shots than everyone else doesn't equal productive. Lulz.

Box scores only tell basic info. You have to break that down a lot further to learn much. At least you're admitting you have know idea how advanced metrics work.

Noah should be 10min type player unless he's hot that gane. No one has asked for 20. Lulz.

Lol, Oweh takes about half the game off just standing around looking confused. Do you even watch?

No one has said they play the same. But they have played a large enough sample size to be able to judge. Tow playing 8 minutes isn't. That’s what you either willfully or ignorant don't understand.

Do you not see the irony in talking about sample size and then immediately using one game as a sample? Lol, probably not.

Is Vandy a scrub team now?
 
H

Hoskins91_rivals

All-Conference
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Anony Moose said:
Except he isn't. Not even close. The same metrics literally prove that. Jacking up a bunch more shots than everyone else doesn't equal productive. Lulz.

Box scores only tell basic info. You have to break that down a lot further to learn much. At least you're admitting you have know idea how advanced metrics work.

Noah should be 10min type player unless he's hot that gane. No one has asked for 20. Lulz.

Lol, Oweh takes about half the game off just standing around looking confused. Do you even watch?

No one has said they play the same. But they have played a large enough sample size to be able to judge. Tow playing 8 minutes isn't. That’s what you either willfully or ignorant don't understand.

Do you not see the irony in talking about sample size and then immediately using one game as a sample? Lol, probably not.

Is Vandy a scrub team now?
Click to expand...
You gonna hijack every thread with your barely hidden “play the white boys”?
 
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kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,462
70,653
113
UKortho said:
I am not disagreeing I get that he has to play. The O ratings aren’t always the best indicator. For example- Jasper’s rating is higher. I was surprised that his was that low.
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And that's why you can't use flawed metrics. Jasper hasn't played anywhere hear the minutes OO has.
Could imagine playing JJ more than he played Tuesday night? He was a disaster. We lost by 25, if you shrink Oweh's minutes down and give them to JJ, we get beat by a lot more.

But the whole team was sleep walking. Like, how do you catch the ball on an inbounds play and walk out of bounds with it? None if these guys were into that game and that happens way too often. It happened last year too (Ohio state, Alabama 3 times and finally, Tennessee in, of all places, the sweet 16). There's a common denominator.
 
kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
50,462
70,653
113
Anony Moose said:
Except he isn't. Not even close. The same metrics literally prove that. Jacking up a bunch more shots than everyone else doesn't equal productive. Lulz.

Box scores only tell basic info. You have to break that down a lot further to learn much. At least you're admitting you have know idea how advanced metrics work.

Noah should be 10min type player unless he's hot that gane. No one has asked for 20. Lulz.

Lol, Oweh takes about half the game off just standing around looking confused. Do you even watch?

No one has said they play the same. But they have played a large enough sample size to be able to judge. Tow playing 8 minutes isn't. That’s what you either willfully or ignorant don't understand.

Do you not see the irony in talking about sample size and then immediately using one game as a sample? Lol, probably not.

Is Vandy a scrub team now?
Click to expand...
Again, you're using efficiency metrics and they're telling you to give Oweh's minutes to Jasper and Noah. They're metrics look better, because they don't play very often. Pope uses them sparingly.

If you take Oweh out and play Jasper/Noah 30 minutes, they would get cooked and their metrics would nose dive.

It's real easy to be a complementary player, you aren't the focus of the defense, so all you have to do is make shots, but the second either one of those guys has to fill Oweh's shoes, they will get destroyed.

Yeah, Oweh is not efficient, but he's one of only 2 guys we have that can put up 20ppg while being the prinary focus of the defense. JJ and Noah couldn't score 8ppg if they were the focus.
 
T

TommyMansky

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No touching of money if they lose by over 20. That would be a good start.

This team really makes me miss Carr and Butler.
 
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Anony Moose

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Lulz, efficiency is kind of key. I am also using many other stats.

Why would Jasoer take Oweh's minutes? Lol, they don't even play similar positions. You're spiraling, dude. Lulz.

Anyone could do better than Oweh. Brick, turnover, score. Brick, turnover, score. Every few positions he gets fouled and typically goes 1 for 2. Yawn. It's not hard if you just jack up shots.

I honestly think you're giving defenses too much credit. They don't actually play Oweh that hard away from the rim because he can't dribble or shoot. Lulz.
 
T

The_Answer1313_rivals

Heisman
May 27, 2007
31,887
24,977
113
Not really interested in the whole Oweh thing but I did want to point out something.

Offensive efficiency numbers are usually tied into other things like shot %, possession % etc.

So you may see on say Kenpom guys having better offensive numbers than Oweh, that doesn't necessarily mean tho that if they took the same volume of shots that Oweh takes that their rating wouldn't go down (it's likely it would). Conversely if Oweh reduced his to the same number as others, his offensive rating would more than likely go up.

In other words, you can't just say Player 1 has X rating and Player 2 has Y rating and since X > Y, player 1 is better.

I think a large part of Oweh's issue is that he is the one that is being counted on to take the bulk of the shots. He has to be "the guy" because there's no one else. He always struck me as a guy that is just trying to do way to much. But given circumstances he kind of has to.

Looking at the team page you know who the two players on this team in the "major contributers" section?
Oweh and
LOWE LOL.

Lowe is gone. It's only Oweh now.

Compare that to say Arizona who has ZERO major contributors but FIVE significant.
Michigan ZERO major/ FOUR significant

Basically as Oweh goes, our offense goes.
 
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Anony Moose

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Hoskins91_rivals said:
No. You were definitely specifically arguing for Noah and Chandler a lot. I’m not going to write a paragraph in every reply when it’s clear the person receiving it isn’t worth it.
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I do want Chandler and Noah to play more, as well as several of the other players who aren't white. Lulz. Love the race card.
 
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CNJ1966

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To get back to the thread topic, I googled “touch money” and it doesn’t mean what it sounds like. That was a dreadful performance, but we might wanna cut them some slack on this
 
*Fox2Monk*

*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
44,693
80,468
113
Smeegs said:
They’ll have to change the rules first. I’m pretty sure that right now it’s forbidden for NIL payments to be performance based.
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It may be forbidden but every school pays guys to play. I don’t care if they go thru this bs thing for NIL deals but in no world are they lining up deals for more then $600 that equate to these guys making 4 million dollars. Here is a question. Has anyone heard of or seen anything that Oweh for example has done for $3 million dollars this year. Any commercials, camps, autograph signings, ads, anything?
 
*Fox2Monk*

*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
44,693
80,468
113
1) Noah was 1-5, 3 points, no rebounds, no assists in 19 minutes. That's a walk ons statline.

How does a player even play 19 minutes with a stat line like this? We know he doesn’t play a lick of defense so what else did he do but take up space? He still can’t shoot for supposed Sharp shooter.
 
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Bugs092056

Bugs092056

All-Conference
Sep 20, 2022
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*Fox2Monk* said:
1) Noah was 1-5, 3 points, no rebounds, no assists in 19 minutes. That's a walk ons statline.

How does a player even play 19 minutes with a stat line like this? We know he doesn’t play a lick of defense so what else did he do but take up space? He still can’t shoot for supposed Sharp shooter.
Click to expand...

This is for a top 5 all time program by the way. Shites phucked
 
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Smeegs

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*Fox2Monk* said:
It may be forbidden but every school pays guys to play. I don’t care if they go thru this bs thing for NIL deals but in no world are they lining up deals for more then $600 that equate to these guys making 4 million dollars. Here is a question. Has anyone heard of or seen anything that Oweh for example has done for $3 million dollars this year. Any commercials, camps, autograph signings, ads, anything?
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Yeah, it’s all BS. Everybody knows it’s really pay for play, but the NCAA is still pretending they’re just paying for NIL rights so they can claim that it’s technically not pro sports and thus outside the scope of labor laws.

Total nonsense. It is pro sports. But the NCAA still insists on maintaining the illusion that’s it’s not, and allowing the payments to be directly tied to on court performance would shatter that illusion.
 
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*Fox2Monk*

*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
44,693
80,468
113
Smeegs said:
Yeah, it’s all BS. Everybody knows it’s really pay for play, but the NCAA is still pretending they’re just paying for NIL rights so they can claim that it’s technically not pro sports and thus outside the scope of labor laws.

Total nonsense. It is pro sports. But the NCAA still insists on maintaining the illusion that’s it’s not, and allowing the payments to be directly tied to on court performance would shatter that illusion.
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The sad thing is until it actually goes to labor unions and contracts the schools will have no power and players will do whatever they want. Literally come in and get paid, stump toe, and not play. We are experiencing it right now with a legit injury, but one who could still probably play and who’s dad made some questionable statements right before he quit.
 
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