Frame by frame analysis of the unjust murder of an American by criminal gangsters
- Thread starter ClemsonInAtlanta
- Start date
As I said in the other thread … at best, that agent thought he was reaching for his taser.
I mean … let’s assume just for arguments sake that Petti was violent and thrashing about, resisting and all that … let’s just assume that to be true, and for the safety of the agents he was shot in defense …. This agent pulled his firearm and fired while 5? More? Of his fellow agents were on top of the target or immediately in the vicinity?
now, I’m not law enforcement agent nor trained to apprehend people, but I think discharging his weapon in this situation presented significant more risk to the ICE agents than Petti did.
I mean … let’s assume just for arguments sake that Petti was violent and thrashing about, resisting and all that … let’s just assume that to be true, and for the safety of the agents he was shot in defense …. This agent pulled his firearm and fired while 5? More? Of his fellow agents were on top of the target or immediately in the vicinity?
now, I’m not law enforcement agent nor trained to apprehend people, but I think discharging his weapon in this situation presented significant more risk to the ICE agents than Petti did.
You should start a thread on that shooting that happened at a.protest in Minnesota, because there are none
You’re right., it could’ve been all the illegals that are shooting, raping and burglarizing Americans you were referring to as “criminal gangsters” no?
No. You act like every illegal immigrant is out there raping and pillaging women and children. The average illegal immigrant contributes more to the country than the average Trump voter
You act like every American ICE agent is out there shooting American citizens. The average ICE agent contributes wayyyy more than the average limp Kamala voter . That’s for damn sure
Limp =Limp wristed
As in effeminate or spineless. Has zero to do with a flaccid peen. Get your mind out of the gutter
Here's where I am on this as I'm apparently the only moderate on the board.
I have no problem with deporting illegal immigrants in general. While I admit that I'm pretty soft on immigration (being that we ARE a nation of immigrants, that seems OK to me), they are actually breaking the law. It's the job of ICE and Border Control to do this. That's fine. I also think that Federal Law trumps state law and that ICE and Border Control should be able to go wherever they want to.
I'm on board with American's being able to protest what they don't like and a BUNCH of American's don't like what ICE is doing. That's fine too. I think most folks realize that interfering with the police doing their jobs is a crime and they are subject to being arrested for it. Any intelligent protester knows this and it's part to the risk they assume. Again, we are all good and I have no problem with them being arrested.
I also realize that when protesters and police go at it, things can get out of hand. That goes both ways and both sides need to take that into account. ICE agents are people too, and they can screw up just like anyone else. The problem is that when most of us screw up, no one dies. When the police screw up, people certainly can. Case in point... right here. Like most cases, you are going to have to really bring the receipts to convince me that this ICE agent got up the other morning thinking it would be really nice to kill an American Citizen and maybe pick up some to go food on the way home. Things got out of hand and someone died. That's serious business and it's why the officers are held to a very high standard and the procedures for when and where to use deadly force are defined the way they are.
It's important that when procedures aren't followed and someone gets hurt or killed, that officers are held accountable. So even though they almost certainly "just screwed up" and didn't plan for this to happen, they have to answer for it. I don't hate this officer for what he did, even if it results in criminal charges. Not unless you can show me he intentionally killed this guy when he KNEW he didn't need to.
My problem, and the part that makes me angry, is how the powers that be handled this (and the other shootings). Instead of working to calm everyone down, Border Patrol and DHS immediately label the person a domestic terrorist and immediately draw conclusions that favor law enforcement despite obvious video that shows these claims to be untrue. The first thing out of these folk's mouths should be for everyone to stay calm and avoid violence. Second, That like all fatal shootings between law enforcement and civilians this case is going to be fully investigated and that no one is going to jump to conclusions until all evidence is collected and analyzed. It's even OK to say that they support their agents and have confidence in them BUT a fair investigation will tell us what really happened. Due process for everyone involved.
Unfortunately, that's NOT the way we roll anymore. The people in charge start off lying (or at least saying things they have no way of knowing are true or not). And when they do this sort of thing, it makes you think (probably with some justification) that any investigation is going to be very biased indeed.
I have no problem with deporting illegal immigrants in general. While I admit that I'm pretty soft on immigration (being that we ARE a nation of immigrants, that seems OK to me), they are actually breaking the law. It's the job of ICE and Border Control to do this. That's fine. I also think that Federal Law trumps state law and that ICE and Border Control should be able to go wherever they want to.
I'm on board with American's being able to protest what they don't like and a BUNCH of American's don't like what ICE is doing. That's fine too. I think most folks realize that interfering with the police doing their jobs is a crime and they are subject to being arrested for it. Any intelligent protester knows this and it's part to the risk they assume. Again, we are all good and I have no problem with them being arrested.
I also realize that when protesters and police go at it, things can get out of hand. That goes both ways and both sides need to take that into account. ICE agents are people too, and they can screw up just like anyone else. The problem is that when most of us screw up, no one dies. When the police screw up, people certainly can. Case in point... right here. Like most cases, you are going to have to really bring the receipts to convince me that this ICE agent got up the other morning thinking it would be really nice to kill an American Citizen and maybe pick up some to go food on the way home. Things got out of hand and someone died. That's serious business and it's why the officers are held to a very high standard and the procedures for when and where to use deadly force are defined the way they are.
It's important that when procedures aren't followed and someone gets hurt or killed, that officers are held accountable. So even though they almost certainly "just screwed up" and didn't plan for this to happen, they have to answer for it. I don't hate this officer for what he did, even if it results in criminal charges. Not unless you can show me he intentionally killed this guy when he KNEW he didn't need to.
My problem, and the part that makes me angry, is how the powers that be handled this (and the other shootings). Instead of working to calm everyone down, Border Patrol and DHS immediately label the person a domestic terrorist and immediately draw conclusions that favor law enforcement despite obvious video that shows these claims to be untrue. The first thing out of these folk's mouths should be for everyone to stay calm and avoid violence. Second, That like all fatal shootings between law enforcement and civilians this case is going to be fully investigated and that no one is going to jump to conclusions until all evidence is collected and analyzed. It's even OK to say that they support their agents and have confidence in them BUT a fair investigation will tell us what really happened. Due process for everyone involved.
Unfortunately, that's NOT the way we roll anymore. The people in charge start off lying (or at least saying things they have no way of knowing are true or not). And when they do this sort of thing, it makes you think (probably with some justification) that any investigation is going to be very biased indeed.
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I hate to be the one to break it to you but that post makes you a communist and traitor in the eyes of half of this board (exaggeration). As someone decidedly on the left side of center, I have no qualms with anything you said.
Same though this line gives me pause:
"Not unless you can show me he intentionally killed this guy when he KNEW he didn't need to."
Not sure how he didn't know he didn't need to with the guy folded over on his knees facedown....and then after the guy is laying there motionless, posing no threat, they shoot him seven more times? If you didn't know those shots weren't needed there's something wrong with your training or you're mentally unstable.
The way I understand it, if you are law enforcement and you decide to use deadly force, you shoot to kill (center mass) and you don't stop until the person is down and not moving. That's the hard reality.
So I'd be on your side here if if the guy pulled a gun, got shot a couple of times, dropped the gun and held out his hands and got shot 7 more times. You'd be absolutely right. But if that officer GENUINLY believed he had a gun and drew it...not so much, you shoot him until he stops moving. THAT'S why to me, you have to show me that this officer KNEW that the guy was disarmed.
FWIW, viewing the film, this looks like a bad shooting IMHO when we look at it frame by frame and the officer is at fault. But let me play devil's advocate here. Realize that have NO IDEA if what I'm saying is true or not... it's just a for instance. Let's say the officer didn't see that this guy was holding his phone initially and just piled in with the rest of the agents subdue him. THEN one of the other agents pulls that gun out and tosses it (that's looks like what happened in the frame by frame shot). But other agents are yelling gun, gun. THEN you see the phone in the guy's hand in the middle of that scrum. Could you think that he had a gun, not a phone? Maybe? Again, no idea, but that's why you have the investigation and put it in front of folks with no skin in the game.
I think there still have to be criminal charges for someone in that hypothetical. Someone else saying "gun" simply cannot be a get out of jail free card for someone dying. We'd have two man murder crews roving the streets. I agree fully on this being investigated.
Maybe it's a bad idea to hire a bunch of unqualified Proud Boys and drop their training interval drastically to a ludicrous number like 47 days (get it...Trump's #47!!!) before declaring that they have total immunity as you unleash them in a public setting where they are armed to the teeth and committing unconstitutional acts left and right all while masked like Sicario banditos.
There's no maybe with this ********. They murdered that man in broad daylight and ******* clapped after they pumped 10 rounds into his lifeless body.
Hey man, I like you and some of your posts in the past have made me laugh out loud but I feel like it's stretching the logic to frame this as anything but an unnecessary murder. He was completely vulnerable and surrounded when he was shot and any law enforcement group worth their salt, would not have found a reason to shoot IMO.
only MAGAland inhabitants would attempt to spin this murder into such a ridiculous scenario.
how about we just apply Occam's Razor to the following circumstances:
- mongrel force comprised in part by Proud Boys rejects
- woefully untrained workforce led by miscreants like Bovino
- promised total immunity for any misdeeds
- unleashed on densely populated urban centers instead of tumbleweed border towns
- roving band of paramilitary goons without identification
- recent history of itchy trigger fingers and questionable reactions
- propensity for excessive brute force and escalation
- history of unconstitutional practices
Absolutely not, especially when you consider the entire picture. Not sure if you saw it but there was a zoomed in photo of the shooter's back that showed a Texas flag, so he likely had a dislike for liberals already and when combined with the above, it's my belief that he may have even enjoyed it. We know the agent who clapped afterwards certainly did.
I tend to agree... Like I said, this looks like a bad shooting to me, but I'd normally be willing to wait on a full investigation. BUT in this case you already have the Powers That Be lying about it. Note the upgrade from giving us bad information to just flat out lying. That seems to be the go to for Trump's folks.
We got statements from government folks saying this guy brandished his weapon and threatened the agents. That's not the case. The video CLEARLY shows him holding his phone, not a gun. It's hard to see how there was a communication problem at this level. There's no view I've seen that shows a damn thing that could be interpreted as what our officials have told us were the facts.
But what REALLY pushed me over the edge into calling it lying is the freaking FBI Director saying you can't bring a loaded firearm to a peaceful protest... That you don't have that right. Certainly implying that IF you do, you are automatically inciting violence. Now I don't think that he actaully MENT that it was illegal to have the gun, but he certainly ment that if you show up armed you are inciting violence. That's just ********. I'm going to include the entire Fox Interview so I can't be accused of taking it out of context.
FBI Director Patel speaks on investigation into CBP-involved shooting in Minneapolis | Fox News Video
FBI Director Kash Patel joins 'Sunday Morning Futures' to discuss a deadly CBP-involved shooting in Minneapolis, the mass anti-ICE protests that have formed in the aftermath and increased efficiency of capturing the agency's most wanted.
www.foxnews.com