Andruw Jones to the Hall of Fame.
- Thread starter patdog
- Start date
I wonder if he’ll wear his Jim Edmonds pajamas when he gets introduced
He was my favorite non-pitcher on those Braves teams. I'll definitely be going to the induction. If you appreciate the Hall of Fame and have never been to Cooperstown, it's an awesome weekend. I went in '14 and '15, and they were both great trips.
If Jones is in then Manny Ramirez needs to be.
Manny has a PED issue. Until Bonds gets in, Manny ain't.
The Beltran induction is interesting. They wouldn't let him coach because of the cheating scandal you would think it would have effected this.
It’s fairly certain amongst very many people in MLB circles that Jones was also using PED’s…just like almost everyone else in that era. If it wasn’t a concern, he’d already be in the HoF and wouldn’t have taken 7 ballots to make it. He just wasn’t ever caught. His body metamorphosis and total breakdown after age 30 was very similar to other known PED and steroid users from that period.
I also don’t think Manny can ever get in now regardless, because he’s already been on the ballot the max number of times. Could be wrong, though.
Good for Andruw beating his wife into the hall of fame.
If you're happy Beltran got in, bang your trash can, *clang* *clang*!
Yet the best baseball player of all time stays out lol. MLB HoF is a joke and a disgrace. Bonds was allowed to use steroids to reinvigorate interest in baseball. Then they decided to punish him because people didn't like that decision by Bud.
If you're happy Beltran got in, bang your trash can, *clang* *clang*!
Yet the best baseball player of all time stays out lol. MLB HoF is a joke and a disgrace. Bonds was allowed to use steroids to reinvigorate interest in baseball. Then they decided to punish him because people didn't like that decision by Bud.
He made some amazing plays in center, but I also remember when Bobby Cox pulled him out of a game in the middle of an inning after a lazy effort in the field.
10 Gold Gloves. Andruw Jones was one of the best defensive centerfielders to ever play the game. According to Baseball Reference, Jones prevented 254 runs in his career defensively. Ramirez cost his team 109 runs defensively.
If you are saying the best baseball player of all time is not in the HoF, the only qualifier that can make that make sense is that Shohei Ohtani isn’t eligible yet.
Surely to God you aren’t saying Barry Bonds is the best baseball player of all time?
Was going to say this. Jones isn't getting in the HoF because of his offensive stats. They are good, but not HoF worthy. He's going in because he is one of the best defensive centerfielders of all time. The amount of ground he covered in center field was incredible. He got to balls that no one else would ever be able to get to.
Exactly. I actually think the 254 runs prevented is low. I don't know how the R-TOT stat is calculated, but I think it underestimates how good he was defensively.
Dude was playing better than anyone else on a pretty level playing field because over half the pitchers were juiced too. I'm sorry but 750+ HRs, a season where he had .600+ OBP and if you mathed it out, he would have been just as good without a damn bat.
Ohtani isn't there yet. Hell Ohtani isn't Babe Ruth yet. But Barry was the GOAT and it's Bud Selig's fault for turning a blind eye to steroids - not Barry's choice to use them.
People don't fear Ohtani the way they feared Barry.
You have lost your damn mind if you believe this.
Ohtani has had ONE season above .400 OBP at .412.
Barry's CAREER OBP was .444. He had a season at .609 ffs. 2500+ WALKS.
You are patently a prisoner of the moment zoomer if you think Ohtani is anywhere close to sniffing Barry's farts. Barry Bonds is such a ******* statistical outlier it's insane. To think it all because he used Steroids is ridiculous. The dude was OBP over .400 in Pittsburgh long before his head grew 3 sizes.
Anyone who watched baseball seriously in the mid 00s vs. now knows that Barry Bonds was the best, most feared player of all time.
LOL. You’re leaving off a pretty 17ing big data point when comparing Bonds to Ohtani. Like, an unimaginably egregious omission….one that has absolutely nothing to do with steroids / PED’s.
Babe Ruth has 94 wins. Ohtani has 39 Wins.
I'm sorry but being a 3rd starter level pitcher with severe pitching injury history does not move the needle as much as being a prisoner of now would have you believe. Dude has won 3 games (2 in the post season) as a Dodger's pitcher. One of the most loaded rosters of all time.
Really arguing a jack of all trades master of none is better than by far the greatest batter we've ever seen. Hilariously bad and recency bias influenced take.
Wait? We're talking about Babe Ruth being the best ever and not Barry Bonds?
Dude, what????? 3rd starter level pitcher? Ohtani has a career 3.00 ERA, and has struck out 670 hitters in 528 innings. Has a career 162 game average WAR of 5.5….JUST as a pitcher.
You literally might be high right now. Sleep it off, chief.
Also at this point they just need to put an asterisk on about 20 years and just let the guys in. It sucks for guys like Will Clark who never touched the stuff but most were doing at least something.
Bonds, Clemens, ARod and everyone else just need to get in with the asterisk.
Bonds, Clemens, ARod and everyone else just need to get in with the asterisk.
Dude has been pitched too seldom to be considered any higher. 130 innings, 166 innings, 130 + tore his arm. This is with the longer rest period he "needs to be effective". Note only 3 of his 8 years has he pitched.
He gets to pitch on a curve, he gets graded on a curve. Look at Kodai Senga of the Mets. He goes from being a Cy Young on the Ohtani rest cycle to being a flame out often injured on the normal 5-man rotation.
Ohtani is at best equivalent to the value a #3 arm brings on the mound.
Stop being enamored by the spectacle and go look at things objectively.
And Patdog Bonds > Ruth. Ruth > Ohtani. I'm not even entertaining Ohtani compared to Bonds if you can't even be better than Ruth. Dude's career isn't there yet. His peak isn't better than the best peak, his longevity isn't there. He's good. MVP level bat and #3 level starter is the best player today. But best of all time? Best peak? Absolutely not.
This is some seriously deranged level of historical blindness. Jesus 17ing Christ.
Barry Bonds had a career 162 game average WAR of 8.8*.
Another player with that exact same number? Aaron 17ing Judge, except for without the *.
Ted Williams - spent several prime years of his career in the military - 8.6 without the *.
Mike Trout - 8.6, again without the *.
Ohtani’s played much fewer years than all of the above, but here are his actual WAR numbers (hitting + pitching) from the past 5 years: 9, 9.6, 10, 9.2, 7.7. That’s an average actual WAR (not 162 game average) of 9.1. And he just turned 30, only scratching the surface of what he’s gonna do long term. And, oh yeah, without the *.
Babe Ruth - without even considering his pitching - 10.5. So, this is pretty much a laughable discussion to say Bonds is better than him.
Simply put, McGwire, Sosa, and others were really good but probably not HoF level players that cheated to put up what would have been HoF level numbers. Bonds was a HoF level player, but not some GOAT-level player or anything close to it, that cheated to become some video game super freak. The dude literally hit 50 more HR’s between ages 35-40 than he did between ages 30-35. Think about that, and think about how it would be if you took the peak 5-year performance of every single HoF player in history, and made that peak even higher for their ages 35-40 seasons. It’d be stupid. Ruth would have like 900 HR’s or some shít.
He owes every “statistical outlier” he has to steroids. To argue anything else is simply burying your head in the sand.
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