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The worst kind of bad - Talented but NOT TOUGH ENOUGH to finish

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olsh

Junior
Oct 6, 2001
3,569
213
63
That's us this year. 5 of 6 losses essentially the same - good enough to be in it all the way. But NOT tough enough, nor strong enough on the interior defense to get stops late and we lose in crunch time. We're 2-5 in crunch time and one was nearly a disastrous loss. I'm sorry, but Page KILLS us defensively probably because of the way we're made up, we need him to be something he really isn't. He can't freaking rebound. He's not even like a 4. He's more like a traditional 3 and we need him because he's the closest to a center we have. It's a disaster for this year.

Really just the first 20 minutes at Wisconsin where we look like we just couldn't match up. And yet the Big Ten season is basically over already. What a waste of Martinelli's last year, sort of like how we wasted BB's senior year. I REALLY hope we focus on rebounders in the portal next year.

Wish we would have put Nicholson on one of those unlimited eligibility plans that seem to be popular. We're an NCAA tournament team with him. Shame on me for not realizing how valuable he was when he was here.
 
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MCC_Cat

Junior
May 29, 2001
1,547
267
83
Honestly I don't think we are that close at all. These teams we have been losing to are MEDIOCRE. Wait til we play some really good teams, they are coming. We got rolled at Wisconsin who is NOT GOOD. I expect there will be more of that.

We can't shoot, play defense, or rebound. How are we close? Minnesota kept running the same plays over and over and schooling us. That was embarrassing.
 
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Secho99

Sophomore
Dec 12, 2001
1,860
113
63
olsh said:
Wish we would have put Nicholson on one of those unlimited eligibility plans that seem to be popular. We're an NCAA tournament team with him. Shame on me for not realizing how valuable he was when he was here.
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Nicholson was rated by Evan Miya's analytics site as one of the most impactful defenders in the entire conference last season. I think we're seeing why now. His presence made it a lot easier on the other 4 guys on the floor.

Mullins is a nice individual defender, but overall the team defense is dreadful.
 
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prez77

Junior
Dec 27, 2024
576
254
57
Yeah, I don't really see that much talent. Mart and Page can definitely score but the point guards are not really good and there hasn't been enough defense.
 
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jensberg

Sophomore
Jul 28, 2006
2,980
150
63
prez77 said:
Yeah, I don't really see that much talent. Mart and Page can definitely score but the point guards are not really good and there hasn't been enough defense.
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Next year could be brutal since Mart will be gone and I'd be shocked if several players don't transfer.
 
AdamOnFirst

AdamOnFirst

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
10,070
1,667
113
MCC_Cat said:
Honestly I don't think we are that close at all. These teams we have been losing to are MEDIOCRE. Wait til we play some really good teams, they are coming. We got rolled at Wisconsin who is NOT GOOD. I expect there will be more of that.

We can't shoot, play defense, or rebound. How are we close? Minnesota kept running the same plays over and over and schooling us. That was embarrassing.
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I agree with this. Page fits OPs description, but we have other guys who just aren’t good enough. Reid is in this category for me. He’s an okay half court point guard offensively and is a massive defensive liability. He’s supposed to be getting us out running and into transition but this has been stopped dead vs power conference opponents. We only had 6 fast break points again yesterday! TBH, I’m happy to continue seeing more West.

The defense overall is horrible. Backcourt cuts for free layups literally all game long.

Beyond this, the backcourt isn’t very talented above the freshmen. Gelo is probably the best of the bunch but he’s an inconsistent off ball role player who doesn’t play good enough defense consistently. Mullins is a role player. Green is interesting but also challenged athletically. The rest are lower end role players at best.

This team is only talented compared to past bad Northwestern or poor Big Ten teams. With the water line rising considerably in an NIL era in the conference, teams that have mediocre talent are now light years behind.
 
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Purple Pile Driver

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,617
2,959
113
docrugby1 said:
I have to think this is the case, unfortunately. There is no way he doesn't help this team compared to the players taking his minutes. They have not contributed 3 point shooting and are significant defensive liabilities
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It’s pretty obvious something is going on behind the scenes.
 
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Secho99

Sophomore
Dec 12, 2001
1,860
113
63
mickbula said:
Kj might be already gone
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Who knows what's going on with KJ, but the new reality is that we're likely going to lose multiple guys every year to the portal. We're certainly not immune to what's happening all around CBB. You hope to have guys for multiple seasons but you can no longer count on it.
 
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docrugby1

Senior
Jun 16, 2010
6,861
470
58
Secho99 said:
Who knows what's going on with KJ, but the new reality is that we're likely going to lose multiple guys every year to the portal. We're certainly not immune to what's happening all around CBB. You hope to have guys for multiple seasons but you can no longer count on it.
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Self inflicted wounds are tough to accept. KJ proved his value last year, the new guys taking his minutes have not
 
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Secho99

Sophomore
Dec 12, 2001
1,860
113
63
docrugby1 said:
Self inflicted wounds are tough to accept. KJ proved his value last year, the new guys taking his minutes have not
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We see these guys play 1-2 games a week, our only view of them is during those few hours. The coaches are spending hours a day with players every day. Something that's happening in all of those hours are keeping KJ off the floor.
 
HawkCat

HawkCat

Senior
May 29, 2001
8,134
586
113
Secho99 said:
We see these guys play 1-2 games a week, our only view of them is during those few hours. The coaches are spending hours a day with players every day. Something that's happening in all of those hours are keeping KJ off the floor.
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I agree that KJ either has landed in the doghouse or has decided to transfer. That is the only explanation for Clayton getting so much playing time given Reid's disappointing performance. The overall chemistry on this team just seems bad, after such a promising start. And I feel bad for Mart that his last season is spiraling the drain. I hope he at least packs the stat sheet, as he has been an incredible find and a gamer.
 
TheC

TheC

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
19,214
1,301
62
HawkCat said:
I agree that KJ either has landed in the doghouse or has decided to transfer. That is the only explanation for Clayton getting so much playing time given Reid's disappointing performance. The overall chemistry on this team just seems bad, after such a promising start. And I feel bad for Mart that his last season is spiraling the drain. I hope he at least packs the stat sheet, as he has been an incredible find and a gamer.
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Sadly, this reminds me of the Nance, Kopp teams where the team chemistry seemed off and we were wondering what the heck Collins had done wrong. That was worse though as those were fairly highly recruited players that failed. This year's team is a weird hodge podge of lightly recruited guys, mid level transfers and the freshman class.
 
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Secho99

Sophomore
Dec 12, 2001
1,860
113
63
HawkCat said:
I agree that KJ either has landed in the doghouse or has decided to transfer. That is the only explanation for Clayton getting so much playing time given Reid's disappointing performance. The overall chemistry on this team just seems bad, after such a promising start. And I feel bad for Mart that his last season is spiraling the drain. I hope he at least packs the stat sheet, as he has been an incredible find and a gamer.
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The analytics sites I look at (KenPom, Torvik, EvanMiya) all show that KJ is objectively a better player than Clayton across the board. Clayton is a minus on the offensive end and the defense does not appear to be better with Clayton in the game. There's no evidence to suggest that Clayton should be playing really at all, let alone significant minutes. So something is happening on a day-to-day basis that's leading to this.
 
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Catmandoo78

Sophomore
Nov 12, 2025
293
166
43
Didn’t Gill pick us over the Illini? I figured he’d have seen some playing time by now if he was good enough that they wanted him.
 
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Skunkpilot

Senior
May 23, 2022
2,670
488
73
Catmandoo78 said:
Didn’t Gill pick us over the Illini? I figured he’d have seen some playing time by now if he was good enough that they wanted him.
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They wanted him then didn’t want him as they recruited all the 20 year old Europeans over him.
 
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Catmandoo78

Sophomore
Nov 12, 2025
293
166
43
Skunkpilot said:
They wanted him then didn’t want him as they recruited all the 20 year old Europeans over him.
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That’s not looking like a bad choice I guess. But their (American) freshman looks ridiculous. His recruiting profile shows he had almost no offers but he’s a projected 1st round draft pick. Lucky find for them I guess
 
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Skunkpilot

Senior
May 23, 2022
2,670
488
73
Catmandoo78 said:
That’s not looking like a bad choice I guess. But their (American) freshman looks ridiculous. His recruiting profile shows he had almost no offers but he’s a projected 1st round draft pick. Lucky find for them I guess
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Yeah that kid is GOOD!!
 
GatoLouco

GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,671
172
63
Catmandoo78 said:
Didn’t Gill pick us over the Illini? I figured he’d have seen some playing time by now if he was good enough that they wanted him.
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There were opinions that the reason they offered him was because his dad was such a prominent alumni. Supposedly they never pursued him hard, more of a courtesy kind of thing. Read that, no clue how accurate that was.
 
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Purple Pile Driver

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,617
2,959
113
GatoLouco said:
There were opinions that the reason they offered him was because his dad was such a prominent alumni. Supposedly they never pursued him hard, more of a courtesy kind of thing. Read that, no clue how accurate that was.
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Seems very accurate to me. However, I would play Fish more down the stretch as I feel there is potential there.
 
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Catdude

Redshirt
Aug 27, 2001
1,011
43
48
Another loss in a game where we were within a couple of points inside of two minutes. A great effort on the road to take the #12 team to the wire but same result. Other than Wisconsin, we’ve either had the lead or been within a point or two inside the final two minutes in every loss. As the OP said, good enough to be competitive for 40 minutes but not good enough to win. Frustrating season.
 
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Catdude

Redshirt
Aug 27, 2001
1,011
43
48
Like most coaches, Collins gets conservative at the end of close games and most possessions finish with isolation at the end of the shot clock. So a lot of the end-game performance is dependent on a strong and experienced PG. With junior and senior B Mac and Boo, we could win some of those close games (but still lost a lot too). Without a high-level PG, we really struggle to get critical baskets in the final minutes.

At least that’s my theory on a substantive reason why we so often seem to be “unlucky” in close games.
 
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