Wiseman announcing decision Tuesday

[Aike]

I think that is what was stated. No way to foresee it an issue or maybe Cal would have at least held a little back in his pitch to the Wiseman's. Cal can ad-lib very well and may have taken Penny as one of those honorable types. Most people, (No matter how bad people look in the media) are honorable. jmuo

Can you imagine the conversation?

Cal: “James, looking forward to getting together. Just make sure Penny isn’t there, ok?”

Wiseman: “Why not, Coach? Penny is like family to me. He’s helping me every step of the way and I want him included.”

Cal: “Absolutely! I just think he’s a snake, is all. Some family members are snakes, James. Better you learn that now than later. So, what’s your mom making for dinner?”

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

How do you think that would have gone over with Wiseman, restricting his coach from attending the visit? No offense, but I’ve always found that line of reasoning absurd.

Not when the line of reasoning has a foundation of hiring Penny last year.

Yes, Penny could have still taken the Memphis job, but why wait if you're UK? The whole thing shows a partial lack of foresight.

Additionally, why put all your eggs in one basket when it's crystal clear Tubby's on his way out?

The bottom line for me is that UK's staff still evidently refuses to go with a total war, scorched earth policy. They don't promise kids anything (antiquated); they wait for the majority of their offers(antiquated); they don't attack the opposition on the recruiting trail (antiquated). Cal became who he is as a reputable coach by waging total war on opposing recruiters. He simply doesn't find that necessary anymore, and we're seeing the results in the form of 13 of our last 14 top five offers going elsewhere.

 

[UKDC80]

I wish all of BBN would restrain from watching ESPN for this. Don’t give these guys rating boosts when we already know the outcome. This happens to us way to much. Get drug out just for publicity. Turn off ESPN if you are home today.

 

[Aike]

Not when the line of reasoning has a foundation of hiring Penny last year.

Yes, Penny could have still taken the Memphis job, but why wait if you're UK? The whole thing shows a partial lack of foresight.

Additionally, why put all your eggs in one basket when it's crystal clear Tubby's on his way out?

The bottom line for me is that UK's staff still evidently refuses to go with a total war, scorched earth policy. They don't promise kids anything (antiquated); they wait for the majority of their offers(antiquated); they don't attack the opposition on the recruiting trail (antiquated). Cal became who he is as a reputable coach by waging total war on opposing recruiters. He simply doesn't find that necessary anymore, and we're seeing the results in the form of 13 of our last 14 top five offers going elsewhere.

Read my post above.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Can you imagine the conversation?

Cal: “James, looking forward to getting together. Just make sure Penny isn’t there, ok?”

Wiseman: “Why not, Coach? Penny is like family to me. He’s helping me every step of the way and I want him included.”

Cal: “Absolutely! I just think he’s a snake, is all. Some family members are snakes, James. Better you learn that now than later. So, what’s your mom making for dinner?”

Or this one, somewhere between 2017 and 2018:


Cal: "Looks like Tubby's on his way out at Memphis."

Justus: "Is that good for us regarding Wiseman?"

Cal: "Yes, unless they hire Penny."

Justus: "Let's hire Penny then."

Cal: "Nah, we got this. We'll wait until Tubby gets fired and then reevaluate."

 

[Aike]

When Wiseman picks Sewage Plant University in a few hours, it will make the 13th time that a top 5 kid has rejected UK offer since 2015.

The only kid who said yes was Skal. That's a 1/14 rate, or 7.1%.

For those keeping score on the "top 10" in that span: 8/29 or 28%. This does count Murray and Diallo.

We are 7/15 on top 6-10 guys, which isn't bad, and has helped keep UK's head above water competitively during that span.

I posted this somewhere else last night, but Monk and Fox were actually RSCI 4 and 5 when they committed. They slipped at the end of their Senior years, for some reason.

Also, and this is well worth noting, a bunch of those top 5 guys have been bought and paid for by other schools of late. I know that you advocate cheating right along with everyone else. I can’t get on board with that, and I hope we don’t.

 

[TankedCat]

I wish all of BBN would restrain from watching ESPN for this. Don’t give these guys rating boosts when we already know the outcome. This happens to us way to much. Get drug out just for publicity. Turn off ESPN if you are home today.

never been a fan of the multiple hats, national coverage for a kid deciding which school to attend.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I posted this somewhere else last night, but Monk and Fox were actually RSCI 4 and 5 when they committed. They slipped at the end of their Senior years, for some reason.

Also, and this is well worth noting, a bunch of those top 5 guys have been bought and paid for by other schools of late. I know that you advocate cheating right along with everyone else. I can’t get on board with that, and I hope we don’t.

I respect that.

 

[Aike]

Or this one, somewhere between 2017 and 2018:


Cal: "Looks like Tubby's on his way out at Memphis."

Justus: "Is that good for us regarding Wiseman?"

Cal: "Yes, unless they hire Penny."

Justus: "Let's hire Penny then."

Cal: "Nah, we got this. We'll wait until Tubby gets fired and then reevaluate."

I mean, I suppose. But who is to say we don’t hire Penny and he immediately leaves for a head coaching job when offered?

You can come up with all kinds of theories and scenarios. Can’t really say they are wrong or right. My objection was to the idea that there was an easy way to keep Penny out of a recruiting meeting if James Wiseman wanted him there.

 

[BBUK_anon]

Can you imagine the conversation?

Cal: “James, looking forward to getting together. Just make sure Penny isn’t there, ok?”

Wiseman: “Why not, Coach? Penny is like family to me. He’s helping me every step of the way and I want him included.”

Cal: “Absolutely! I just think he’s a snake, is all. Some family members are snakes, James. Better you learn that now than later. So, what’s your mom making for dinner?”

Not at all, Maybe something like; Cal; "Jame's, looking forward to getting together with you..."

Wiseman; "Coach, I want Penny to attend, he is like family to me."

Cal; "No problem"

I don't think Cal can be intimidated by anyone when it comes to recruiting. All he would do is tailor his approach to not give away too much information. He would however put Penny in his place and Penny may not have even known it.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I mean, I suppose. But who is to say we don’t hire Penny and he immediately leaves for a head coaching job when offered?

You can come up with all kinds of theories and scenarios. Can’t really say they are wrong or right. My objection was to the idea that there was an easy way to keep Penny out of a recruiting meeting if James Wiseman wanted him there.

I love Cal. I'm frustrated. If we're not going to pay kids, we're not going to win with OAD. If we don't win with OAD, we need second tier kids to stay. If those kids don't stay...

You get my frustration.

 

[Aike]

Anybody remember the Brandan Wright recruitment? Another Nashville kid, right?

My recollection was that he was all in on Kentucky, but I may be remembering it wrong. I didn’t follow recruiting nearly as closely in those days. Lot less going on.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Not at all, Maybe something like; Cal; "Jame's, looking forward to getting together with you..."

Wiseman; "Coach, I want Penny to attend, he is like family to me."

Cal; "No problem"

I don't think Cal can be intimidated by anyone when it comes to recruiting. All he would do is tailor his approach to not give away too much information. He would however put Penny in his place and Penny may not have even known it.

I wish Cal would start employing some inner-Italian again. Go back to the days of burning people's houses down. Go back to the days of leveraging World Wide Wes. Go back to the days when he exhibited the type of personality that could make John Chaney and Jim Calhoun lose sleep at night.

That Cal fell in love with the "it's not for everyone" success of his first five years here that landed him the "best of the best." He became a Cal determined to distance himself from a tainted reputation. It worked, for a while. Then, people started paying players and kids realized they could have fun in school and still be a top 5 pick.

Cal opposed those realities, which was noble. But nobility doesn't win titles. Total war wins titles.

 

[Ghettobird]

I wish Cal would start employing some inner-Italian again. Go back to the days of burning people's houses down. Go back to the days of leveraging World Wide Wes. Go back to the days when he exhibited the type of personality that could make John Chaney and Jim Calhoun lose sleep at night.

That Cal fell in love with the "it's not for everyone" success of his first five years here that landed him the "best of the best." He became a Cal determined to distance himself from a tainted reputation. It worked, for a while. Then, people started paying players and kids realized they could have fun in school and still be a top 5 pick.

Cal opposed those realities, which was noble. But nobility doesn't win titles. Total war wins titles.

Agree, it just seems there was a time Cal was always ahead of the curve, now it feels like were always playing catch-up.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Anybody remember the Brandon Wright recruitment? Another Nashville kid, right?

My recollection was that he was all in on Kentucky, but I may be remembering it wrong. I didn’t follow recruiting nearly as closely in those days. Lot less going on.

Yep. He was a lifelong UK fan. He saw the kids in Chapel Hill running up and down the court scoring 90 points a game and wanted that over being the featured scorer in Tubby's 72 points/game system.

Tubby promised to change. Some habits die hard or not at all.

 

[Aike]

I love Cal. I'm frustrated. If we're not going to pay kids, we're not going to win with OAD. If we don't win with OAD, we need second tier kids to stay. If those kids don't stay...

You get my frustration.

Yeah, I do. I watched Marvin Bagley block a shot against the glass last night and vacuum it in. We’ve all seen the damage Zion is doing.

Those seemed like Cal guys, and a lot of us thought they would be Cal guys. It’s frustrating.

We seemed to be doing everything the right way, and the results speak for themselves. Both at the college level, and our guys’ production in the pros.

Then it’s as if the unseen hand reached out and turned down the spigot.

 

[CalipariCapo]

Agree, it just seems there was a time Cal was always ahead of the curve, now it feels like were always playing catch-up.

This situation is a great metaphor for life in general. Life is full of ups and downs. The strong people are the ones that can be appreciative of the ups while navigating through the down times. Coach Cal is a tough cookie. He will make it back to the up times. I just hope our fan base can be grateful for the job he has done so far and doesn’t run him out of town before he can adjust his approach and get back on top. Coach Cal won’t go quietly while getting beat at his own game. The man is a competitor and we need to give him his time to figure the landscape of college b-ball (and behind the scenes shenanigans) out.

 

[TankedCat]

honestly I think Cal took some of his pressure off after winning the national championship

I remember someone asking him what changed afterwards for him and he said something to the effect the weight of it was off him.

That freed him up to be the more altruistic Cal using the UK program to enable kids dreams.

I'm just not sure that their dream include winning a national championship for UK

 

[Aike]

This situation is a great metaphor for life in general. Life is full of ups and downs. The strong people are the ones that can be appreciative of the ups while navigating through the down times. Coach Cal is a tough cookie. He will make it back to the up times. I just hope our fan base can be grateful for the job he has done so far and doesn’t run him out of town before he can adjust his approach and get back on top. Coach Cal won’t go quietly while getting beat at his own game. The man is a competitor and we need to give him his time to figure the landscape of college b-ball (and behind the scenes shenanigans) out.

One of my main frustrations with some of our fans is that they know how much cheating is going on, but still blame Cal for recruiting misses. From where I’m sitting, the guy is still recruiting his tail off.

I’m more sympathetic to complaints about style and philosophy, but I also take those with a grain of salt. The people who complain the loudest would find something to complain about no matter the style, and no matter the overall philosophy.

 

[JC43]

Not when the line of reasoning has a foundation of hiring Penny last year.

Yes, Penny could have still taken the Memphis job, but why wait if you're UK? The whole thing shows a partial lack of foresight.

Additionally, why put all your eggs in one basket when it's crystal clear Tubby's on his way out?

The bottom line for me is that UK's staff still evidently refuses to go with a total war, scorched earth policy. They don't promise kids anything (antiquated); they wait for the majority of their offers(antiquated); they don't attack the opposition on the recruiting trail (antiquated). Cal became who he is as a reputable coach by waging total war on opposing recruiters. He simply doesn't find that necessary anymore, and we're seeing the results in the form of 13 of our last 14 top five offers going elsewhere.

Tubby being fired took everyone, all the pundits, everyone by surprise. The amount of money they spent to fire him is ridiculous. 2 seasons with a record of 40-21...during his time there

 

[Darezay]

Remember after we lost Zion there was a “fire lit inside of cal”....... where’s that fire at? Clearly it didn’t help with top 5 guys

 

[Joneslab]

Then it’s as if the unseen hand reached out and turned down the spigot.

That unseen hand more than likely belonged to World Wide Wes.

 

[Aike]

That unseen hand more than likely belonged to World Wide Wes.

He’s one of the players. But I think there’s a little more going on than that.

 

[JC43]

Agree, it just seems there was a time Cal was always ahead of the curve, now it feels like were always playing catch-up.

Having at least the second best recruiting class in all his seasons while here...yeah he is playing catchup...this team we have now gas the ability and on paper can compete for a national title. He has missed on some recruits like all coaches...
Maxey and whitney are ballers wait n see

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Remember after we lost Zion there was a “fire lit inside of cal”....... where’s that fire at? Clearly it didn’t help with top 5 guys

It's there. It just isn't being accompanied with Team USA connections, Nike backing, or free real estate for the families of elite recruits.

I think every kid we've missed on authentically loves Cal and trusts him. I also think money, Team USA, and Nike talks. If we're going to enforce an ethic that not even the rule makers in the NCAA value, we need to be willing to suffer the consequence of that when guys like Zion say, "Love you Cal, but I'm headed elsewhere."

We're trending toward the "well, at least we're doing it the right way" element that we used to mock when the Davises and Walls of the world were picking Kentucky.

 

[Joneslab]

He’s one of the players. But I think there’s a little more going on than that.

Me too.

Like all of life, trying to explain what's happened by just sticking one answer on it won't fit. It's likely a culmination of things.

But the timing does eerily fit with WWW, or close to. I tend to think the flattening out of the recruiting world, our assistants, and Cal's possible lack of intensity compared to earlier in his tenure here are bigger reasons.

Also, it doesn't help that two of the last three huge recruits we've whiffed on (T. Young, Wiseman) went to their hometown schools. Bad luck, etc.

 

[BBUK_anon]

I wish Cal would start employing some inner-Italian again. Go back to the days of burning people's houses down. Go back to the days of leveraging World Wide Wes. Go back to the days when he exhibited the type of personality that could make John Chaney and Jim Calhoun lose sleep at night.

That Cal fell in love with the "it's not for everyone" success of his first five years here that landed him the "best of the best." He became a Cal determined to distance himself from a tainted reputation. It worked, for a while. Then, people started paying players and kids realized they could have fun in school and still be a top 5 pick.

Cal opposed those realities, which was noble. But nobility doesn't win titles. Total war wins titles.

I'd say that is mostly correct BUT,

What a LOT of the BBN and this site are overlooking now is Cal's motivation(s). I truly believe his motivation is changing families lives in a generational sense. He is instilling so much of himself toward the players and families he has chosen to recruit that it is personal to him and not a job. (That is why he works like he does. Do something you love and you never work a day in your life.)

In my opinion I think Cal being the UK Coach is secondary to him (He uses it like pulling a pistol to get what he wants. I do think he wants good for UK and the fans too, I have no doubt about that but, his emphasis is always on changing lives for the better.) and his goal to change lives. I think his actions are based on how many lives he can change....for the better.

Is that the best for UK? Maybe not but UK is benefiting from Cal's efforts? What amazes me is that Cal's recruiting has slipped with some recruits. I think that motivates Cal but I also think that hurts Cal in the sense that he see's it as a failure on his part that he didn't do a good enough job to get the particular recruit to sign up for his plan of life.

I could start naming names as to who has succeeded under Cal but there is a character limit on each post. Cal has been that good in changing lives...

Go CATS but I cannot down Cal in any sense due to his motivation(s). I won't. It is spiritual to him; as it should be.

 

[CalipariCapo]

One of my main frustration with some of our fans is that they know how much cheating is going on, but still blame Cal for recruiting misses. From where I’m sitting, the guy is still recruiting his tail off.

I’m more sympathetic to complaints about style and philosophy, but I also take those with a grain of salt. The people who complain the loudest would find something to complain about no matter the style, and no matter the overall philosophy.

Well said. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease. The loud, obnoxious, uneducated minority that only sees the product on the court does not know all of the happenings that are going on before these kids even commit to a school. Coach Cal is up against it and personally, I like that. Everyone else in the game had to ban together to catch the lead dog. They finally got to him but an Alpha is always an Alpha. Coach Cal will recover. Firey Italians always seem to do great things lol

 

[o_Ricky]

Remember after we lost Zion there was a “fire lit inside of cal”....... where’s that fire at? Clearly it didn’t help with top 5 guys

I'm frustrated by the elite of the elite turning UK down lately too but to be fair Cal got Hagans , Montgomry, Whitney, and Maxey after Zion, all of whom I believe are/were top 10.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Well said. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease. The loud, obnoxious, uneducated minority that only sees the product on the court does not know all of the happenings that are going on before these kids even commit to a school. Coach Cal is up against it and personally, I like that. Everyone else in the game had to ban together to catch the lead dog. They finally got to him but an Alpha is always an Alpha. Coach Cal will recover. Firey Italians always seem to do great things lol

Might be a case of the Nike machine telling Cal directly or indirectly, "K's going out with a title whether you like it or not because K going out with a title helps our brand. In time, we'll put you back on the mantel, but it's K's time now."

Might be why Cal has kept a low profile about losing elites to Duke and why he's expressed a desire to coach into his 70s. Perhaps he knows the cycle will trend back to UK in a few years.

 

[jeffbuckies]

Question, is World Wide still hanging around Cal and the program, like he did when Cal was getting any player he wanted?

 

[gwjenning]

We don’t even know we aren’t getting wiseman yet.

Don’t throw in the towel

 

[morgousky]

opcorn:

 

[Calsthebomb]

Question, is World Wide still hanging around Cal and the program, like he did when Cal was getting any player he wanted?

If not then Cal needs to hit him up.

 

[CalipariCapo]

Might be a case of the Nike machine telling Cal directly or indirectly, "K's going out with a title whether you like it or not because K going out with a title helps our brand. In time, we'll put you back on the mantel, but it's K's time now."

Might be why Cal has kept a low profile about losing elites to Duke and why he's expressed a desire to coach into his 70s. Perhaps he knows the cycle will trend back to UK in a few years.

Not saying this is true, but definitely something I can agree with. Something is off with the Cal/Nike camp. UK not playing in the PK80 last year proved it.

 

[akaukswoosh]

Boosters?

 

[BBUK_anon]

Boosters?

Will they be shaking his hand?

 

[BBUK_anon]

opcorn:

Ban this occasional poster Mods. Morflippantsky

 

[Aike]

Question, is World Wide still hanging around Cal and the program, like he did when Cal was getting any player he wanted?

Wes has a lot of friends. Always did.

 

[Aike]

Boosters?

Sizing up their investment.