Is College Basketball Dead?

[John Henry]

For those of you who think it can not lose interest to the sports fan world you best think again. When I was growing up Boxing was King of The Sports World. Nothing compared to the title of Heavyweight Champion of the World. It was THE SPORT. As a child I followed it like a religion, had a subscription to Ring Magazine and argued with my buddies if Marciano could beat Archie Moore, Joe Lewis or Jack Dempsey. But today I can't tell you a name of a boxer. So what happened?

If you take away a half a dozen universities college basketball is irrelevant for maybe a month out of the year. Where I live it may not be relevant then. If the truth be told it is not. Many basketball fans think it is a rigged game, they think the NCAA has favorites and this becomes obvious when certain schools can skate without punishment. UNCheat is at the top of the list. We know who they are and we know they are not held accountable. Another problem is the game itself. It is played by young people who are not fundamentally sound when they come to college and I put that on the lack of good high schools coaches and the AAU system. It has destroyed team basketball. Everyone has to have a mix tape highlighting their dunks but few mix tapes highlight team basketball. Thankfully we have a coach in John Calipari that stresses team basketball and keeps his players accountable to their team mates. Many schools do not.

Yes college basketball will survive and will not fall to the bottom like Professional Boxing has. But the game has had its glory days and I doubt I will live to see the teams and players that were produced when college basketball seemed to be pure and unspoiled. But in reality maybe those days were an illusion too. Maybe it has always been a corrupt sport but was covered up because of the lack of social media and cable sports programs. Who knows!

 

[lkc1021]

Legitimate discussion. Here are my points:

1) Ratings and attendance have plummeted across the country, even with ticket prices dropping and upgrades to arenas.

2) Scandals have abounded. From Adidas, to strippers, to academic scandals, to a slew of other things, does anyone really believe the sport is pure anymore? Further, does anyone believe there is a governing body who can enforce some sort of unbiased order?

3) One and done is about to become none and done. If you remove the ultra premium players in this already devastating climate, where does the sport go?

4) The NBA has been sinking brand and brain equity into their “g-league”...if that continues, what happens to the already cashed strapped, scandal ridden, talent depleted college leagues?

Obviously Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, and a couple others have die hard college fans, but mostly no one cares about the sport anymore.

With everything going on, can CBB survive in any meaningful way?

Sad.

Are you alive?

 

[poppycat]

Predicting doom of CBB is illogical. What would replace it in Jan..Feb..Mar?
Hockey? Tennis? Golf? Soccer? Ping Pong?
As stated above, March Madness and Bracketology = CBB is doing just fine.

Doesn't have to be replaced.. some people are turning from spectator to participator .
Sports are becoming more irrelevant to people's lives. Only takes a generation (or2)
and your have a major down trend in spectator sports.

 

[yoshukai]

Legitimate discussion. Here are my points:

1) Ratings and attendance have plummeted across the country, even with ticket prices dropping and upgrades to arenas.

2) Scandals have abounded. From Adidas, to strippers, to academic scandals, to a slew of other things, does anyone really believe the sport is pure anymore? Further, does anyone believe there is a governing body who can enforce some sort of unbiased order?

3) One and done is about to become none and done. If you remove the ultra premium players in this already devastating climate, where does the sport go?

4) The NBA has been sinking brand and brain equity into their “g-league”...if that continues, what happens to the already cashed strapped, scandal ridden, talent depleted college leagues?

Obviously Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, and a couple others have die hard college fans, but mostly no one cares about the sport anymore.

With everything going on, can CBB survive in any meaningful way?

Sad.

I kinda think it is dying . Most of America only cares about the NCAA tournament.

 

[OldRed]

Legitimate discussion. Here are my points:

1) Ratings and attendance have plummeted across the country, even with ticket prices dropping and upgrades to arenas.

2) Scandals have abounded. From Adidas, to strippers, to academic scandals, to a slew of other things, does anyone really believe the sport is pure anymore? Further, does anyone believe there is a governing body who can enforce some sort of unbiased order?

3) One and done is about to become none and done. If you remove the ultra premium players in this already devastating climate, where does the sport go?

4) The NBA has been sinking brand and brain equity into their “g-league”...if that continues, what happens to the already cashed strapped, scandal ridden, talent depleted college leagues?

Obviously Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, and a couple others have die hard college fans, but mostly no one cares about the sport anymore.

With everything going on, can CBB survive in any meaningful way?

Sad.

UNC*** has fans of cheating. They are the experts. The NCAA has allowed UNC*** to cheat proving that there is no integrity in the game. It was a facade before but at least you could pretend to believe that the games were legit. Allowing UNC**** to blow up the myth of the student athlete by cheating and getting away with it while other schools are punshed makes it obvious that it is all about the dollars. For me it is hard to justify following something that I know lacks integrity.



#NCAAisCORRUPT and #UNCCHEATS

 

[DelkBowl]

Not a legitimate discussion. I saw them playing games this week.

 

[WeWant9]

I've lost my passion, I hate it. I only get excited for March. I would never miss a game in the past, game-day was a holiday for me, I've only watched two games this year. I wish I knew why, but apparently I'm not the only one. SOMEONE HELP ME!

I won't lie, unc winning it last year did it to me. The screw job we got in the E8 made me sick, and then seeing those aholes win it all was salt in the wound. Plus them getting off with no punishment for academics afterwards was just a slap in the face.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

Combo of small things all adding up to take a bite out of the enjoyment of the games . in no order ESPN transforming into a social activist channel as opposed to just letting the games speak for them selves , they promote individuals more than a team concept , rolling out " controversial " commentators one after the other . ( like today a serious discussion of what Ice tea thinks about Lebron and Kobe or some nonsense ) . And their increasing foray into all things political .
-- All the scandals , UNC skating , UL running a ***** house / stripper service to players , the ability to watch any and all games in HD at home . The obvious bias the NCAA has for certain teams , and the scandal no one gives much credence , the refs are just crooked . Flatly Crooked . I dont give a crap about western Ky or the cheeseheads , but as a fan I was totally appalled a ref would decide a game like that . Just blown away .

 

[Bkocats]

This thread is depressing

Unfortunately it’s a good discussion; excellent points have been made. It IS sad.

 

[westerncat]

If the officiating and bias from NCAA towards certain schools continues the way it does, then yes.

I think this is it in a nut shell. With the decision on UNC cheater getting off with nothing done to them. I think this told fans there are some schools that are protected by the NCAA and they can do anything they want. People are just fed up with corruption. I know I am.

 

[Boneheadblue]

TV commercials, 1000 foul shots, 20 minutes to play 15 seconds, and now refs looking at the monitor for every call. Yes NCAA BB is really starting to suck.

 

[mbc82584]

Some really good points in this thread.

A few comments based on what I’ve read here:

- obviously March madness is going to survive and be watched, especially the first weekend. I would argue the later rounds will be the ones to suffer most as the trend continues.

- I travel for work and speak to a ton of sports fans, all over the country. People outside of Kentucky, even avid college supporters, donors, and boosters just don’t care about CBB. One of the biggest boosters for Tennessee, for example, didn’t even realize UNC was in town til an hour before the game. I hear this same story often.

-The peril of the demise of casual fans, especially during the regular season, is that it will likely cause big problems if any number of the hardcore fan bases actually revolt, which you’re starting to see. What is CBB if, say, Kansas and Kentucky fans stop caring en masse?

-NCAA favoritism is scalping fans who follow schools other than duke or unc. I hate Louisville, but they are getting disproportionally hammered compared to those schools. Watch what happens to their fan base over the next 2-3 years, that will be the canary in the coal mine.

 

[jc2010]

It will never be what it once was. The shift in talent over the past 20-25 years has really hurt the game imo. As others have noted, March will always be owned by College Basketball. That will never change. I can't remember the last time I watched a college game that was not a UK game and not a tournament game. That is a major shift for me.

Same here, haven't watched a non UK game in several years. The refs are terrible and the way they are having them call the game makes them even worse. I don't care a thing about watching games in the 50's and 60's, its terrible basketball

 

[Cbbcrazy2]

The NCAA turning a blind eye to the UNC cheating has affected more basketball fans than most believe. It turned my stomach to the game and ensures me the bias is real in its support of the ACC. I will be a UK fan until I push up daises, but the NCAA hurt the sport beyond repair imo.

 

[KyFaninNC]

I won't lie, unc winning it last year did it to me. The screw job we got in the E8 made me sick, and then seeing those aholes win it all was salt in the wound. Plus them getting off with no punishment for academics afterwards was just a slap in the face.

Not to mention the screwing Arkansas got to even allow UNC to get to us.

 

[Saven]

I think this is it in a nut shell. With the decision on UNC cheater getting off with nothing done to them. I think this told fans there are some schools that are protected by the NCAA and they can do anything they want. People are just fed up with corruption. I know I am.

I have decided after UNC won last year that I won't watch another NCAA basketball game unless it involves Kentucky. I just can't be bothered with this **** anymore.

 

[anon1763419335]

no one cares about the scandals outside a few on this board. people despise how uk is treated compared to schools like duke/unc. as a result they will look for any weak correlation to fit their agenda. attendance is down...its because of scandals. i mean....i'm sure there are thousands who said..."yeah i was going to go to new orleans for the CBS sports classic but because of the UL scandal i'm just not into it." lol .

it is what its always been. money. sports, particular college sports is built on top of regular people from small towns. they are poor and cant go. are the first rows empty? nope.

but rather come to the obvious conclusion that people just cant afford it any more despite a booming economy, its blame politics, ESPN, scandals and whatever conspiracy that points the finger in any direction other than yourself.

college basketball has always been and will always be a 2nd tier sport that is only interesting 1 month a year in march.

 

[OldRed]

no one cares about the scandals outside a few on this board. people despise how uk is treated compared to schools like duke/unc. as a result they will look for any weak correlation to fit their agenda. attendance is down...its because of scandals. i mean....i'm sure there are thousands who said..."yeah i was going to go to new orleans for the CBS sports classic but because of the UL scandal i'm just not into it." lol .

it is what its always been. money. sports, particular college sports is built on top of regular people from small towns. they are poor and cant go. are the first rows empty? nope.

but rather come to the obvious conclusion that people just cant afford it any more despite a booming economy, its blame politics, ESPN, scandals and whatever conspiracy that points the finger in any direction other than yourself.

college basketball has always been and will always be a 2nd tier sport that is only interesting 1 month a year in march.

I disagree. People can afford it but I know I am choosing not to spend any extra money on the WWE-lite product that the NCAA is marketing. It isn't real, maybe it wasn't real before but the field is not level now. It has a feel more like a small town Little League where the councilman's son starts and his uncle always calls his games so he gets a huge strike zone. I went to a high school where the high school principle's daughter was the "valedictorian" and we all knew it was an inside job. She went to IU and was thrown out for cheating. There is no one to throw out the NCAA or UNC*** for cheating so why bother getting invested in something that is rigged?

 

[UKUGA]

I watch Kentucky and I watch the tournament.

 

[ZakkW]

Anecdotally peaking as someone who, from the mid-80s-early 2010s, watched as many games as I could and who now only watches UK games, the sport as a whole has gone to ****. The season starts too early, the elite talent level is too young, the rooferee-ing sucks, the tournament is marketed as upsets!/buzzer beaters!/Cinderella! and is gamed for matchups, two programs play by their own set of rules, and the governing body is corrupt.

 

[JDHoss]

TV commercials, 1000 foul shots, 20 minutes to play 15 seconds, and now refs looking at the monitor for every call. Yes NCAA BB is really starting to suck.

A couple of years ago, my stepson and I were waiting for a B1G slug fest to end so we could watch UK. With about 3:45 to go, we decided we'd go to BWW and watch it. BWW is a good 10 minute drive from the house. I thought we'd be ok to make the UK tip, and when we got there and got seated, there was still 1:55 left. it took about 6 more minutes to play the final 1:55. It basically took 16+ minutes to play the last 3:45 of the game.

 

[jc2010]

A couple of years ago, my stepson and I were waiting for a B1G slug fest to end so we could watch UK. With about 3:45 to go, we decided we'd go to BWW and watch it. BWW is a good 10 minute drive from the house. I thought we'd be ok to make the UK tip, and when we got there and got seated, there was still 1:55 left. it took about 6 more minutes to play the final 1:55. It basically took 16+ minutes to play the last 3:45 of the game.

My favorite part of the time killers is the refs going to the monitor for two minutes to then add 2 tenths to the time clock.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

"Why was the Magic/Bird 79 final such a big deal? Was it because people cared about Michigan State and Indiana State? Hell no. It was because you had 2 charismatic stars who were clearly potentially great pros for the next decade."

Maybe for some but not for me. I could not have cared less about the NBA then, as well as now. NBA was less popular to everyone back then.

That game was popular because it was for the National Championship.

Popularity is waning now on a lot of a things because the newer generations can't lay their IPhone down long enough to be much interested in anything else.

 

[bigbluelou]

Not dying but evolving with the times. Regular season now has a smaller sphere of influence and interest than ever. I'll be brief:

• Too many teams, too many games. Incredibly watered down. Who gives a ***** about Prairie View A&M vs. NW Louisiana St? We do NOT need 351 D1 schools. Cut it at least in half, maybe a third.
• (The above is one of the reasons college football is way more popular...games carry a lot more weight.)
• Too many other entertainment options competing for eyeballs.
• Too easy to enjoy the aforementioned options in the comfort of one's own home in 50-70" HD/UHD.
• As a result of the above, we have sports A.D.D. Flip the channel and see a portion of the millionth rerun of Shawshank Redemption, get drawn into something on the Food Network, or watch a rerun of Seinfeld...maybe never flip back.
• The "younger generation" is simply (in general) not as enamored with sports...more interested in smartphones, mobile technology, gaming, e-sports, social media, etc.
• I don't think the cheating has much to do with it. Crap like this, or worse, has been going on in almost every major sport for decades...we just hear and know more about it now because of 24/7 over-saturated media coverage.

 

[IIIBradIII]

I agree with most others in here. We used to attend games regularly but after Higgins defrauded us out of both the Wisconsin and unc** games I just don't care anymore. I've watched a few of this year's games on TV, but we haven't been to see a game in person since that UW loss and I don't really have any plans to go back until something changes.

 

[wildcatdonf]

Legitimate discussion. Here are my points:

1) Ratings and attendance have plummeted across the country, even with ticket prices dropping and upgrades to arenas.

2) Scandals have abounded. From Adidas, to strippers, to academic scandals, to a slew of other things, does anyone really believe the sport is pure anymore? Further, does anyone believe there is a governing body who can enforce some sort of unbiased order?

3) One and done is about to become none and done. If you remove the ultra premium players in this already devastating climate, where does the sport go?

4) The NBA has been sinking brand and brain equity into their “g-league”...if that continues, what happens to the already cashed strapped, scandal ridden, talent depleted college leagues?

Obviously Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, and a couple others have die hard college fans, but mostly no one cares about the sport anymore.

With everything going on, can CBB survive in any meaningful way?

Sad.

Everybody in our family watches the Cats. We go to the games when we can. So I can't relate to what you are saying. I would like to see better referees, and I'd like to see the flopping stopped. 2 FTs and possession would stop it. Coaches that teach it are cheaters.

 

[CELTICAT]

Yes

 

[K_TIME]

TV commercials, 1000 foul shots, 20 minutes to play 15 seconds, and now refs looking at the monitor for every call. Yes NCAA BB is really starting to suck.

Bingo.

1. Having high end star power leave after 1 year (and now possibly back to zero years) will just dilute the talent pool even more. Having games with talent draws like Laettner vs. Weber, Ewing vs. Olajuwon, Corlis Williamson vs. Antoine Walker, Grant Hill vs. Stackhouse, Danny Manning vs. Stacey King, Rex vs. Pervis Ellison, etc...The teams were great (UK, Duke, UNC, GTown, Cuse, Kansas, Michigan, etc..) but the elite players were just as much part of the draw as the name on jerseys. Now if we are going to be relegated to watching guys like Joel Berry, Derek Willis, Bobby Portis, Grayson Allen, Frank Mason,e tc.. play as the head liners...it is going to impact the product.
2. I totally agree on the sub par collegiate officiating. The constant charges, off ball fouls, etc...the game is being officiated for non athletes to have an easier playing field and diminishes the great athleticism. Flopping is an at all time high in college whereas NBA got after that mess a few years back.

 

[mjj_2K]

"Why was the Magic/Bird 79 final such a big deal? Was it because people cared about Michigan State and Indiana State? Hell no. It was because you had 2 charismatic stars who were clearly potentially great pros for the next decade."

Maybe for some but not for me. I could not have cared less about the NBA then, as well as now. NBA was less popular to everyone back then.

That game was popular because it was for the National Championship.

Popularity is waning now on a lot of a things because the newer generations can't lay their IPhone down long enough to be much interested in anything else.

There's a National Championship game every year. None have ever drawn the same ratings as Bird/Magic.

Some of that was just timing- it was the peak of monoculture. But people got drawn into it because Bird and Magic were such obviously special players. And the effect of that lasted for a long time. No individual game matched the ratings of that one, but the popularity of the tournament (and sport as a whole) skyrocketed for basically the next 20 years or more (Joe B. Hall was one of the highest-paid coaches in the country in the early 80's, making about 250-300K a year. By the late 90's, million dollar+ coaching salaries had become routine). You might ignore the NBA, and certainly a lot of people were ignoring it in 1979, but if Bird and Magic don't go on to be Bird and Magic in the NBA, the after-effect of that game is lessened.

The NBA is where the best players go to prove that they are the best. Seeing those guys perform when they're 18-22 has been a huge part of the appeal of college basketball since the 60's. Lose that, and college basketball as a national sport only continues to decrease. Which is probably inevitable, anyway.

 

[kevcat]

TV commercials, 1000 foul shots, 20 minutes to play 15 seconds, and now refs looking at the monitor for every call. Yes NCAA BB is really starting to suck.

I couldn’t agree more.
You’re 100% spot on.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

3) One and done is about to become none and done. If you remove the ultra premium players in this already devastating climate, where does the sport go?

I was discussing this with co-workers today, specifically on what will happen to the sport if the draft and G-league were to take the top40 college players (A worst case scenario), effectively watering down college ball a great deal.

It would sting a bit, especially being a Kentucky fan. But I see it going the "Jimmer" route: We'll have a plethora of players who have barely any shot for the NBA unless they use their 4 years to become prolific college players. A guy like Jimmer Fredette was such a college talent to watch, even though he just can't hack the NBA.

That's what you'll have: players that you probably won't notice the difference. There will always be some guys who just kill the game, and they will be great to watch. There just won't be much of a basketball future after.

Watching college will be like watching some oif these highlight videos where the kid more or less destroys the competition (but he really isn't made for the higher leagues). Is that so bad? If the game is still fun to watch, even though these guys can't make it to the league, does it matter?

 

[FrankUnderwood]

“Plummeted” seems a tad hyperbolic/ dramatic.

Attendance etc is down for sure but “plummeted?”

 

[carolinacat]

1. Nobody cares about the scandals...it's happened before.
2. Too many games...season starts too early. Shouldn't start till Thanksgiving. Product is over saturated.
3. Too many BAD matchups. Too many NEUTRAL site games. Why cheat the home fans out of great home/home series? Then expect them to show up for Illinois-Chicago. UK still hasn't played a single road game and won't till 2018.
4. Games take too long...too many time outs, too much time spent reviewing plays.
5. The OAD has hurt the game....part of the fun was watching guys develop over at least a 2-3 year career.
6. Today's younger fans aren't as interested in spectator sports.
7. I don't think the officiating is any worse overall than it was years ago. The 50" hi def TV and constant replays make it seem that way. There do seem to be some golden children and coaches who get a favorable whistle....but it's always been that way. I go back to the 1975 final in Wooden's last game.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

You are rIght via current contracts, but attendance to tourney games has been TERRIBLE and even final four viewership is down. If it continues on that trend the money is gonna go, and then...

No

 

[FrankUnderwood]

The attendance and ratings for March madness suggest different.

Honest question lol .., did you properly research tourney attendance / viewership from last year ? Highest it’s been in a long long time

 

[jc2010]

I watch all UK games but more out of habit than anything. There are very few good OOC games and even the conference games don't mean that much. Too damned many teams going from each conference, you can go less than 500 in your conference and still go to the dance. When you had to win the conference to go, all of the games were exciting

 

[bluejesus]

You are rIght via current contracts, but attendance to tourney games has been TERRIBLE and even final four viewership is down. If it continues on that trend the money is gonna go, and then...

In final nationals from Nielsen, Monday night’s North Carolina-Gonzaga championship game averaged 23 million total viewers, up 30% from last year’s championship game. The game peaked with 26.1 million viewers from 11:15-11:30 p.m. Additionally, NCAA March Madness Live recorded 98 million live video streams during the NCAA Tournament, up 33% over last year. The National Championship game garnered 4.4 million live video streams, an all-time record for the title game.

In addition, the NCAA Tournament is averaging a 6.0/13 rating/share, up +9% from 2016 (5.5/12). This weekend's Regional Finals on TBS (Saturday) and CBS (Sunday) averaged 10.2 million viewers and a 6.0/13 rating/share, both up +11% respectively from last year (9.2 million viewers and 5.4/11rating/share).Mar 27, 2017

 

[FrankUnderwood]

In final nationals from Nielsen, Monday night’s North Carolina-Gonzaga championship game averaged 23 million total viewers, up 30% from last year’s championship game. The game peaked with 26.1 million viewers from 11:15-11:30 p.m. Additionally, NCAA March Madness Live recorded 98 million live video streams during the NCAA Tournament, up 33% over last year. The National Championship game garnered 4.4 million live video streams, an all-time record for the title game.

In addition, the NCAA Tournament is averaging a 6.0/13 rating/share, up +9% from 2016 (5.5/12). This weekend's Regional Finals on TBS (Saturday) and CBS (Sunday) averaged 10.2 million viewers and a 6.0/13 rating/share, both up +11% respectively from last year (9.2 million viewers and 5.4/11rating/share).Mar 27, 2017

@mbc82584 .... what say you?

 

[bigbluelou]

1. Nobody cares about the scandals...it's happened before.
2. Too many games...season starts too early. Shouldn't start till Thanksgiving. Product is over saturated.
3. Too many BAD matchups. Too many NEUTRAL site games. Why cheat the home fans out of great home/home series? Then expect them to show up for Illinois-Chicago. UK still hasn't played a single road game and won't till 2018.
4. Games take too long...too many time outs, too much time spent reviewing plays.
5. The OAD has hurt the game....part of the fun was watching guys develop over at least a 2-3 year career.
6. Today's younger fans aren't as interested in spectator sports.
7. I don't think the officiating is any worse overall than it was years ago. The 50" hi def TV and constant replays make it seem that way. There do seem to be some golden children and coaches who get a favorable whistle....but it's always been that way. I go back to the 1975 final in Wooden's last game.

Agreed. You make many of the exact same points I made in my bullet list a few posts earlier.

 

[mbc82584]

@mbc82584 .... what say you?

Here’s what I say:

1) I said “ratings and attendance”, which are two things.

2) attendance is down, period, at NCAA games and especially early tourney games. I don’t need phony attendance figures to know that, because I watch the games. Anyone who has watched the games has 100% seen the empty seats in even premium lowers. Lots of ways to report a “sold out Arena” without asses in the seats.

3) Nielsen Ratings are garbage, especially when they are adding in streams. Stream calculating is an iffy science and many of those streams are hijacked and watched for free. Streams didn’t exist years ago and the tv Ratings were more accurate. Even with that last years game still was a spike on a down graph for viewership, and I expect that had something to do with the matchup (nba powered fan fueled unc vs perineal underdog Gonzaga). Take away the nba power for 3-4 years and see if that game exists.

And let’s not even mention regular season attendance and ratings, even for a megaevent like the PK80 flop...