One other point on the KW page 50 chart. The women's team never had more AFAM enrollments in the fake classes as the men did. I find this interesting as Bradley and UNC try to scapegoat the women's team. Any comments on this?
North Carolina Scandal Etc
- Thread starter Catswin9
- Start date
Really interesting post. By the way, when did Roy express his concern about the AFAM classes? Wasn't it also around the time that the "gradual decline " started? I believe I read that they encouraged other courses, but couldn't force them to take what they thought they should take. These quotes line up with that; existing majors continued with the courses as it was part of the requirements, new players were picking different majors and hence classes.
I think they're saying that the wbb team will take the brunt of the penalties because of Boxil's actions and her association with them. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.
BobbyG still over here trying to debate this stuff? Does he ever give up?
If he ever caught AIDS. AIDS would lose.
If he ever caught AIDS. AIDS would lose.
Posted by wolfchicEE on PackPride:
Roy not being named, lol.
And this is from all the un-redacted data for Men's BB (can't even imagine what's in the redacted crap):
1. 23 enrollments in fake classes by the 2009 champ team in the 24 months leading up to the championship game.
2. 15 enrollments in fake classes by the 2005 champ team in 2005 alone.
3. All players on the 2005 team were AFAM majors (3 players who did not graduate did not report a major: Felton, McCants, Williams).
4. Two fake classes were created for 1 basketball player only. No classes, no assignments, no professor. The only evidence of these "classes" was a grade submitted with a forged signature on it.
With documentation of 12-15 fake classes per year by a mere 12 member team, from what has been released, can you just imagine how many fraudulent classes were taken by basketball players over 18 years?
Roy not being named, lol.
And this is from all the un-redacted data for Men's BB (can't even imagine what's in the redacted crap):
1. 23 enrollments in fake classes by the 2009 champ team in the 24 months leading up to the championship game.
2. 15 enrollments in fake classes by the 2005 champ team in 2005 alone.
3. All players on the 2005 team were AFAM majors (3 players who did not graduate did not report a major: Felton, McCants, Williams).
4. Two fake classes were created for 1 basketball player only. No classes, no assignments, no professor. The only evidence of these "classes" was a grade submitted with a forged signature on it.
With documentation of 12-15 fake classes per year by a mere 12 member team, from what has been released, can you just imagine how many fraudulent classes were taken by basketball players over 18 years?
The UNC*** shills played semantics on the pack pride board trying to discredit the chart. They are pathetic.
Spent a few minutes revisiting the Syracuse penalties and how USA Today stated that Boeheim got off easy. The investigation of 10 years apparently (from 2001 going forward) and very few people were even aware of an investigation.
Seeing what this statement shows, its possible UNC will not lose much from their history if the NCAA uses current penalty measures:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...?hootPostID=43fcd23249dba8ba09efb187531afc2d#
"Given the scope of the violations, however, it's far from overkill. And as Banowsky noted, because most of the violations occurred before the NCAA installed its new penalty structure last year, it didn't have to face a harsher punishment that could have included a full season suspension for Boeheim and a two-year postseason ban."
Boeheim ended up with a 9 game conference suspension, he has to put his 900th win jersey in the archival department like Michigan did to its F4 banners, and his record shows 108 less wins.
Would you be happy with a similar result? I say Roy knew very well what was going on since his right hand man was completely in the mix with Crowder.
But truthfully, does UNC even fit any of these categories? The most extensive is for a 5-10 year range of 'Aggravation' to the highest extent:
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Figure19-1.pdf
Seeing what this statement shows, its possible UNC will not lose much from their history if the NCAA uses current penalty measures:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...?hootPostID=43fcd23249dba8ba09efb187531afc2d#
"Given the scope of the violations, however, it's far from overkill. And as Banowsky noted, because most of the violations occurred before the NCAA installed its new penalty structure last year, it didn't have to face a harsher punishment that could have included a full season suspension for Boeheim and a two-year postseason ban."
Boeheim ended up with a 9 game conference suspension, he has to put his 900th win jersey in the archival department like Michigan did to its F4 banners, and his record shows 108 less wins.
Would you be happy with a similar result? I say Roy knew very well what was going on since his right hand man was completely in the mix with Crowder.
But truthfully, does UNC even fit any of these categories? The most extensive is for a 5-10 year range of 'Aggravation' to the highest extent:
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Figure19-1.pdf
Wow.
Takes a special kind of delusion to keep that up. Sociopathic Psychos is where they are headed.
The reason I posted what I did is if you posted words you'd have no pictures. If you post pictures and have no words you're still wrong. You must define "is" all the time or you're going to be proven wrong by Elmo.....jmuo...The dark color are the fake "organized" classes and the light color is for fake independent study courses that were used to keep fake student athletes who played basketball at UNC*** eligible. Pictured across the top of the chart are the bogus final fours and championships these fake student athletes participated in or won. The bottom are the semesters the fake classes were used for eligibility.
opcorn: Waiting for Brad's reply which I will ignore since his arguments make no sense what so ever.
Willy....I don't talk to vermin but Elmo's name give's me the "willie's" like you never have. His name sicken'd me the first time I saw it posted. Something deviant about it....jmuo
Was in a hurry and at this point Brad should be worrying about getting more sling backs on lady's feet than what is on Cats illustrated.
Did you have a link to this? I looked on the Pack Pride board and didn't see any UNC fans trying to argue this chart. If so, that would be interesting reading.
Look, here's why the Women's basketball team is going to punished the hardest. It's because their Adviser, Jan Boxill was provably steering WBB players to the anamalous independent studies. I believe she asked for grade changes too.
This is basically what the 2nd allegation of the NOA is about. She had the clearest proof of wrongdoing. She was also specifically mentioned in the 5th allegation as well, the LOIC one.
Ultimately for MBB, Football, and Olympic Sports, the punishments will come down to how willing the NCAA is to punish them for having advisers give preferential treatment to registering for the AFAM classes.
This is basically what the 2nd allegation of the NOA is about. She had the clearest proof of wrongdoing. She was also specifically mentioned in the 5th allegation as well, the LOIC one.
Ultimately for MBB, Football, and Olympic Sports, the punishments will come down to how willing the NCAA is to punish them for having advisers give preferential treatment to registering for the AFAM classes.
How many Men's Basketball player over the last 15 years have a degree or a major in African American studies?
You Heels know the answer to that and so does the NCAA. When Rashaad McCants makes the Deans list after admitting he never did the work for the classes, what should the University of North Carolina do to repair their image?
The NCAA is as corrupt and as big of a fraud as the "Carolina Way", so it wouldn't surprise me if the Heels skate. However, I hope that the other institutions that have been penalized over the years would raise such a stink that either the Heels face the stiffest penalties or they demand the NCAA be dissolved!!!
You Heels know the answer to that and so does the NCAA. When Rashaad McCants makes the Deans list after admitting he never did the work for the classes, what should the University of North Carolina do to repair their image?
The NCAA is as corrupt and as big of a fraud as the "Carolina Way", so it wouldn't surprise me if the Heels skate. However, I hope that the other institutions that have been penalized over the years would raise such a stink that either the Heels face the stiffest penalties or they demand the NCAA be dissolved!!!
The argument was several months ago. They were debating the meaning of "irregular" class. You know how a really bad tv lawyer would try when he is losing badly.
The most hilarious thing about this post is that I really think you believe it. Gotta love that preseason optimism. Many fans have it until they throw the ball in the air.
I think you forgot about Alex Poythress and Marcus Lee. There's nothing thin about Poythress and he is stronger and more athletic than anyone on your team.
Put a tall kid of Murray? Really? You're a basketball genius! You should call up all those teams in the Pan Am games who defended Murray with pros and tell them your enlightened viewpoint! Better yet, team USA tried about 4 different guys, perhaps they need you to help them out. Look friend, there are some players that just have a gift and you can't fully explain it. Murray is one of those guys. He makes plays. He finds a way, yes, even when guarded by a tall kid. [Shakes head]
I'm amazed at your other comments as well. Your flippant way if outlining a simple defeat of UK tells me you really don't have much of a clue, so I'm just gonna leave this alone.
You mean those allegations redacted by UNC***. The Martin report and Weinstein report both blow everything you say out of the water. If only the Women's basketball team gets hit hard then the fix was in by the NCAA. Selective enforcement is standard operating procedure for the NCAA. The law suits facing the NCAA are what may put UNC*** in the NCAA cross hairs. No matter you're program has cheated longer than any other program in history. UNC*** has been exposed for what it is, a diploma mill for D1 basketball players.
You can look at the notification of allegations yourself. It's 60 pages, but most of it is simply listing relevant evidence (from the Weinstein Report and Martin Report).
I don't know how the NCAA will rule; this is unbroken ground. But I do know that the WBB program will get hit the worst. It simply has the most evidence against it. Even a cursory reading of the NOA will reveal this.
I can look at the redacted (Swahili: kuhariri) version released by UNC***. Only the NCAA and UNC*** will see the unedited version. You are trying to tell us that 20 years of cheating was put in place to ensure the women's basketball team's success. [roll] You UNC*** guys are real pieces of work.
20 years of fake classes... UNC fans are deliberately obtuse. The NCAA has everything to lose by not roasting your Men's basketball team but they are just corrupt enough not to do anything. I love my Cats but if nothing is done to UNC***s men's basketball team then the college game is an utter sham so I may just switch to the NBA at least we know it is there just to make a buck not a business using the noble façade of amateurism to keep its TV contracts, jersey sales high and their non profit status.
Women's basketball...[pfftt]
There is no doubt that Boxill was a major part of the diploma mill. Keep in mind that she too was offering a ton of independent studies and we know Julius Peppers received an A in Feminist Studies. Imagine if KW had taken a look at her independent studies? I wonder how many men's bball players were taking them and getting A's?
OK thanks. FWIW, I was less interested in the actual debate (as I'm sure there really wasn't one given UNC fan's lack of ability in that department) as much as the novelty of seeing a UNC fan actually thinking they could go onto Pack Pride and not be demolished.
It's really unbelievable to me how obtuse and delusional most of these UNC fans are.
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The Pack pride guys destroyed them. I think the UNC*** fans think this is a TV murder trial where any doubt of the charges will get them off.
UNC fans think the case against them has to be ironclad and airtight to be held responsible , they're not used to dealing with the NCAA .
they must have realized they were already on probation as an athletic dept. which is a fact and maybe the greatest hypocrisy of all. talk about red flags.
Since we are discussing this, why don't you tell us why it isn't correct? You continue to make claims with absolutely no supporting evidence. IF the chart is wrong, explain why it is.
The P5 conferences barely need the NCAA at this point. Many would argue they don't need the NCAA at all. Everyone knows what UNCheat did. Semantics and legal wrangling aren't going to matter much in the end, imo. The NCAA can punish UNCheat appropriately for what they've done or face a fierce backlash that really could end the organization. That is the game that is being played right now. I'm unsure who I want to win, but one side will and either will be enjoyable.
Ok, but we've already gone over this ad nauseam. It's simple, independent study class does not equal irregular class, nor do lecture-style courses. Both were used in the chart.
Some want to say it's just semantics or lawyer talk, but you have to remember that these details will be noticed by the COI. They will look at the facts, not what they wish the NCAA found during their investigation. For example, you and others have said that mbb players were ineligible because of thaking an irregular course. Well that's just not true, and the difference comes down to irregular versus fraudulent (or better stated courses that count and courses that don't count). The COI will see that there's a difference between the two...UNC haters won't.
Now, I know you're in the boat that has told me over and over again that there will be vacated games because of ineligible players, so I know this last example won't sit well with you. At the sake of more time wasted, I'm going to refer you back to those discussions because I've already spelled out the reasons in those threads. If you still don't believe me then you'll have to wait for this spring as I can't spell it out any simpler.
Well, as long as you guys didn't commit too much fraud you should be fine, right?
I mean, when did a little fraud ever hurt anybody?
I'm sure some of the classes you have taken over the past 2 decades have been just fine. And that's all that should matter.
Can the NCAA really expect any school to have all legitimate classes? Seems exorbitant to me.
So...I haven't followed this as closely as some on here but when are we going to hear what the punishment will be? Are they just going to drag it out forever with nothing ever said or what? Can't believe it takes this long.
Thanks, I was wondering if there were a substantive objection to the chart. Okay, it was just an interpretive objection. I am clear on that. Can we agree that the chart only includes classes that were not up to the normal standards of a good university?
For the record, I have never said that there WILL be vacated games. I have said that there SHOULD be vacated games. I agree with JP Scott on this issue. He had said over and over and over that we don't know what the NCAA will do and we don't.
You see, right here is what I cannot understand. Where does it say "fraudulent" courses in the NOA? Where has anyone, other than you and other posters or some in the media with clear agendas, said the classes were fraudulent? UNC didn't call them fraudulent. The NCAA doesn't call them fraudulent. Who that really matters has called them fraudulent?
You're setting yourself up for a lot of crying about how the NCAA doesn't punish their favorites by taking other people's word for what is going on...especially when they couldn't be further from the truth. Are you even curious why those in the media who are known for their unbiased opinions are saying that there's little the NCAA can/should do to UNC? For example, everyone respects Jay Bilas' and his opinions. What has he said?
No. That is also wrong.
Oh no, don't go twisting and snaking about trying to back-track now. You BOTH said games will be vacated and you BOTH said they clearly used ineligible players. You and him argued with me over both of this topics for weeks, if not months. You and him both insisted the classes were fake, then tried to use that to make further implications about eligibility. You can try to snake your way out of it, but everyone here knows where you stood on these arguments and what you said. So, own it. Don't half-step. Don't try to weasel out of what you said.
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