OT: Spring Warmth, 3/5-3/12+? Winter 2025-26 - Patterns and Potential Winter Storms

RU848789

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Jul 27, 2001
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1/19/26 Edit: Go to the last page for discussion of the potential 1/25 snowstorm

Well, I've certainly been less interested in RU sports this year, so my posting here is way down. Not even sure how interested I am in doing weather threads if my sports interest is down, but let's see how this one goes. Anyway, most of the global models are showing shots of Canadian warming over the next 2 weeks "stretching" the Polar Vortex, which typically circulates tightly from west to east above 60N latitude near the North Pole and these stretching events can lead a sudden stratospheric warming (SSW) event for the stratospheric (above about 50,000 feet) portion of this polar vortex, leading to an actual reversal of the wind from westerly to easterly at 60N and 10 hPa (about 150,000 feet up).

SSW's occur every few years, but there has never been one in November during the satellite era. SSW's often lead to displacements in the tropospheric part (from 50,000 feet down to the surface) of the polar vortex (TPV), causing cold polar air to spill down fairly far south into parts of Eurasia and North America, often including the eastern US, potentially creating wintry conditions if the cold air intrusion of the polar vortex trough lines up well with the jet stream around the periphery of that trough, allowing it to drive storm systems into the eastern US, sometimes including wintry nor'easters. The first graphic shows the "normal" stratospheric polar vortex and tropospheric polar vortex, while the 2nd graphic shows what can happen when an SSW occurs and lobes of the TPV rotate down into more temperate latitudes like ours.

So what does this mean for us? Well, the models are showing our area being warmer than normal through about Thanksgiving, but then turning colder than normal (and possibly much colder than normal at times) for at least the subsequent 2-3 weeks into mid-December, likely due to the SSW event, as per the 3rd graphic below. It's still not a given that the SSW materializes and leads to polar vortex cold air intrusions into our area - and even if those two things do occur, if the storm tracks don't align well with when we have cold air in place, we might not see appreciable snow - but probabilistically, setups like these are more likely to have above normal snowfall for that period than not. Regardless, it should be an interesting time to track the weather.

The first link, below, is to Judah Cohen's blog on the polar vortex - he's one of the foremost experts on the polar vortex and SSW's and I'd call him skeptical, but quietly excited for the prospects of a SSW and possible wintry weather. The 2nd link is to a simple FB search on SSW's, which has a host of interesting posts from the past day or two by a number of meteorologists on all of this (a few are clickbait - rule of thumb is to ignore the posts by non-mets).

https://published.aer.com/aoblog/aoblog.html

https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=stratospheric%20warming

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Section124

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Dec 21, 2002
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Bring it on. Killington opened last Wednesday. Other ski resorts in Vt are opening or close to being so. Even Hunter has a pretty good base and if they can get past the slightly warmer weather this upcoming weekend, should be good to open before Thanksgiving.
 
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RU848789

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Jul 27, 2001
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Definitely not worth a thread, IMO, but could be some minor accumulating snowfall overnight N of 78 and W of 287 in PA/NJ (and N of 287 in NY), especially above ~700 feet, where up to 1" or so might fall (and there could even be dustings below 500' in these areas); and 2-3" is possible above 1000' in the Poconos and Sussex County. Could even see a few flakes in the wee hours along 95, but with temps in the mid/upper 30s, accumulations are not expected. Note that the NWS, right now, is not predicting more than 0.5" anywhere (even in the Poconos), but several (not all) of the afternoon models are showing what I discussed above. Whatever falls will be gone by late morning.
 

RU848789

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Jul 27, 2001
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A colder than normal and possibly wintry pattern is now in place for the next few weeks and we have a few potential winter storms to track; see the CPC graphics below. First up is this coming Tuesday, which is still nearly 5 days out, so uncertainty is quite high with outcomes ranging from a little snow to mostly rain for 95/coastal areas and mostly snow well inland (with several inches possible) to a weaker system with maybe some snow to rain for most (a complete miss is looking unlikely). There is also still some chance that even the 95 corridor gets a moderate snowfall. Way too early for snow/rain predictions though; the NWS discussion on the possible storm is linked below, as is the general discussion on AmericanWx (they'll have a storm thread up soon, I'm sure). After that, there's the potential for a winter storm next weekend.

https://forecast.weather.gov/produc...&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=off
https://www.americanwx.com/bb/topic/62392-december-2025-obs-and-discussion/page/7/

This potential pattern shift back was all discussed in the post above and was based on movement towards a sudden stratospheric polar vortex warming event or at least a perturbed/stretched polar vortex and we're now in the process of seeing one or the other (they're similar) and the end result is often a displaced tropospheric polar vortex leading to lobes of cold, arctic air and if these coincide with some moisture we can see some snow in this area; see the link below for Judah Cohen's blog on all of this (he's one of the foremost experts on this).

https://published.aer.com/aoblog/aoblog.html

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Aug 11, 2025
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Wow a winter storm on Dec 2…what is this world coming to. 😎 For those of you who like snow (puzzling to me) how you get a foot! Frankly I hope Army Navy is a whiteout!
 

WhiteBus

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Oct 4, 2011
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What we need is rain! And a lot of it otherwise there will be no Washington Crossing reenactment on Christmas Day! The dock where they get into the Durham boats is sitting on a dry river bed!
As for snow Tuesday, right now there won't be any in Philadelphia.
 
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WhiteBus

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Oct 4, 2011
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Wow a winter storm on Dec 2…what is this world coming to. 😎 For those of you who like snow (puzzling to me) how you get a foot! Frankly I hope Army Navy is a whiteout!
Army Navy in Baltimore this year. Game is Saturday, Dec 13th. Too far out to even talk about the weather.
 

Retired711

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Nov 20, 2001
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What we need is rain! And a lot of it otherwise there will be no Washington Crossing reenactment on Christmas Day! The dock where they get into the Durham boats is sitting on a dry river bed!
As for snow Tuesday, right now there won't be any in Philadelphia.
I knew that the whole of New Jersey is in a drought watch, and that the western counties like Mercer and Camden are considered severely dry, but I didn't know that the dock is on a dry river bed. Yes, we need rain -- lots of it!
 

newell138

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Aug 1, 2001
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What we need is rain! And a lot of it otherwise there will be no Washington Crossing reenactment on Christmas Day! The dock where they get into the Durham boats is sitting on a dry river bed!
As for snow Tuesday, right now there won't be any in Philadelphia.
I heard the lake in Smithville NJ dried up too
 

e5fdny

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Nov 11, 2002
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There will be no storms as I prepared my snowblower for the season…and it started on ONE pull. Didn’t even need the electric assist.

BUT….if there is a storm, it won’t be talked about in this thread. 😑
 

RU848789

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Jul 27, 2001
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Most of the models are showing the expected coastal low to bring little to no snow along and SE of 95 on Tuesday (i.e., all rain, up to about 1") with a few inches (and then rain) NW of 287 between 78 and Mahwah and N of 78 in NY and several inches (with little rain) in far NW NJ/Poconos Hudson Valley, especially along/near 84. However, the Euro and the Euro AIFS (the AI version of the Euro, which has probably been the best performing model this year) are showing 1-2" along 95 before the rain with less towards the coast, but several inches just 10-20 miles NW of 95 in PA/NJ/NY.

That's why the NWS and others are hedging a bit and showing compromise solutions between those two camps, as per the initial NWS snowfall map below. The earlier the precip arrives, the more likely there will be cold air in place and at least some snow to start along 95 and even towards the coast. Even in the snowier scenarios the snow would likely change to rain by the afternoon along 95 and even inland somewhat. Stay tuned, as I've seen a wide variety of forecasts on this one and we're still 48+ hours from the event, so things can change.

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RUkhoury

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Oct 17, 2010
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Up in Roxbury, serious snowflakes for the past hour. Nothing sticking but nice to see it this early
 

RU848789

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Jul 27, 2001
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Most of the models are showing the expected coastal low to bring little to no snow along and SE of 95 on Tuesday (i.e., all rain, up to about 1") with a few inches (and then rain) NW of 287 between 78 and Mahwah and N of 78 in NY and several inches (with little rain) in far NW NJ/Poconos Hudson Valley, especially along/near 84. However, the Euro and the Euro AIFS (the AI version of the Euro, which has probably been the best performing model this year) are showing 1-2" along 95 before the rain with less towards the coast, but several inches just 10-20 miles NW of 95 in PA/NJ/NY.

That's why the NWS and others are hedging a bit and showing compromise solutions between those two camps, as per the initial NWS snowfall map below. The earlier the precip arrives, the more likely there will be cold air in place and at least some snow to start along 95 and even towards the coast. Even in the snowier scenarios the snow would likely change to rain by the afternoon along 95 and even inland somewhat. Stay tuned, as I've seen a wide variety of forecasts on this one and we're still 48+ hours from the event, so things can change.

View attachment 1039427
Still looking like this will be a moderate snowfall with some rain, too, for areas NW of 95, and a significant snowfall for areas well NW of 95 and N and W of 287/80 (with mostly/all snow) with mostly/all rain along and SE of 95, as the Euro Op and the Euro AI models mostly caved to the other guidance, moving the rain/snow line and accumulating snow a bit NW more in line with the other models, although a few of the further NW models moved back SE, so we have pretty good consensus on the snowfall amounts in the NWS graphic below, I think. But we're still about 36 hours out and modest changes are still possible, especially with that rain/snow line.

Briefly, the 1" line moved from about 95 to about 10-15 miles NW of 95 (and most of that early in the morning when temps are still around 32F, so there could be slick spots even along 95 for a bit) with little to no snow at all SE of 95 and towards the coast, where up to 1" of rain looks likely. On the other hand snowfall amounts NW of 287 between 78 and Mahwah were increased appreciably, especially for Sussex/Warren, the Poconos and the Hudson Valley west of the Hudson, which is why there are winter storm watches (for 4-7") up for Sussex and the Poconos. We'll likely see some advisories go up tomorrow for 2-4/3-5" amounts just SE of the watch counties.

https://www.weather.gov/phi



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RU848789

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Jul 27, 2001
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Pertaining to Purdue game on Tuesday night - is it about 1 inch of snow driving to game ?
Not at all. Maybe 1/2-3/4" before 8 am (maybe just a dusting) changing to rain and washing away as temps rise to about 40F in the afternoon and the rain will be winding down in the early evening with temps in the upper 30s. Just some cold light rain for the game.
 
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JL23

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Oct 4, 2005
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Flying up to Boston tomorrow morning, then heading up to Augusta, ME on Wednesday late afternoon / early evening
How much snow is Boston scheduled to get? And Augusta? also timing ??
 

DJ Spanky

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Jul 25, 2001
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You might have problems heading up to Maine:

 

RU848789

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Jul 27, 2001
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Still looking like this will be a moderate snowfall with some rain, too, for areas NW of 95, and a significant snowfall for areas well NW of 95 and N and W of 287/80 (with mostly/all snow) with mostly/all rain along and SE of 95, as the Euro Op and the Euro AI models mostly caved to the other guidance, moving the rain/snow line and accumulating snow a bit NW more in line with the other models, although a few of the further NW models moved back SE, so we have pretty good consensus on the snowfall amounts in the NWS graphic below, I think. But we're still about 36 hours out and modest changes are still possible, especially with that rain/snow line.

Briefly, the 1" line moved from about 95 to about 10-15 miles NW of 95 (and most of that early in the morning when temps are still around 32F, so there could be slick spots even along 95 for a bit) with little to no snow at all SE of 95 and towards the coast, where up to 1" of rain looks likely. On the other hand snowfall amounts NW of 287 between 78 and Mahwah were increased appreciably, especially for Sussex/Warren, the Poconos and the Hudson Valley west of the Hudson, which is why there are winter storm watches (for 4-7") up for Sussex and the Poconos. We'll likely see some advisories go up tomorrow for 2-4/3-5" amounts just SE of the watch counties.

https://www.weather.gov/phi



View attachment 1041810
The NWS is a bit more bullish on snow than most of the models with them having ~2" along an Allentown-Mahwah-Danbury line and 3-6" for Sussex/Warren/W Passaic, the Poconos and Orange/Putnam (with 5-8" possible above 1500 feet in those areas), so they have advisories for 2"+ (and some light ice accumulations) for the counties in blue on the map. The NWS has <1" of snow even for the 95 corridor before 8-9 am, but any snow will quickly change to rain and be washed away by about 1" of rain falling after that for most. Even the interior areas under advisories will see a changeover to rain for awhile, except for far NWNJ/Poconos, NW Hudson Valley, where they might see a mix for awhile, but should be mostly snow. Regardless, all of the advisory counties will likely see all snow for the morning rush hour through at least 9-10 am, so driving conditions could be quite difficult before any changeover to rain.

However, most of the models have continued the trend towards a wetter/less snowy storm with most showing nada along/SE of 95 tomorrow (just ~1" of rain) and not showing 1" or more of snow until one gets to about an Allentown to Mahwah to Danbury line with 3"+ amounts confined to far NWNJ, the Poconos and the 84 corridor in NY, where even there most models have mixing to rain. Will have to see how this plays out, but it's quite possible the SE-most counties under advisories, like NW Montco/Bucks, Hunterdon and most of Morris will see 1" or less of snow with mostly rain if the models are correct and maybe only 1-2" of snow for the next tier of counties NW of there, with perhaps onlyfar NWNJ/Poconos/NW Hudson Valley getting 3" or more. At this point, I'd be happy with 1/2" of snow in Metuchen, just to see a little snow for the first time this winter. Unfortunately, for snow lovers, the cold air from our high pressure will be retreating NE of us (with a progressive pattern with no "blocking" to hold the cold air in) as the precip moves in and the storm will be bringing southerly and easterly flow off the still warm ocean so even though the storm track would normally be good for snow for 95, the rest of the variables just don't line up for a 95 snowstorm.

https://www.weather.gov/phi
https://www.americanwx.com/bb/topic...-sleet-to-coastal-areas-including-nyc/page/7/

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RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
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Still looking like this will be a moderate snowfall with some rain, too, for areas NW of 95, and a significant snowfall for areas well NW of 95 and N and W of 287/80 (with mostly/all snow) with mostly/all rain along and SE of 95, as the Euro Op and the Euro AI models mostly caved to the other guidance, moving the rain/snow line and accumulating snow a bit NW more in line with the other models, although a few of the further NW models moved back SE, so we have pretty good consensus on the snowfall amounts in the NWS graphic below, I think. But we're still about 36 hours out and modest changes are still possible, especially with that rain/snow line.

Briefly, the 1" line moved from about 95 to about 10-15 miles NW of 95 (and most of that early in the morning when temps are still around 32F, so there could be slick spots even along 95 for a bit) with little to no snow at all SE of 95 and towards the coast, where up to 1" of rain looks likely. On the other hand snowfall amounts NW of 287 between 78 and Mahwah were increased appreciably, especially for Sussex/Warren, the Poconos and the Hudson Valley west of the Hudson, which is why there are winter storm watches (for 4-7") up for Sussex and the Poconos. We'll likely see some advisories go up tomorrow for 2-4/3-5" amounts just SE of the watch counties.

https://www.weather.gov/phi



View attachment 1041810
Looks like the NWS finally looked at the models, lol. Snowfall amounts decreased across the board on the map below vs what they posted 3 hours ago. The new map is more consistent with the amounts discussed in the various advisories, which are still in place for areas N/W of 95 as per the map in the quoted post above. Might not get more than a dusting along most of 95 now. Oh well.


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RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
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So are we getting anything this weekend?
Little to no snow/precip this weekend - storm looks to be too weak and too far south, which sucks as it'll be plenty cold for snow. Still some time for the storm evolution to change, but not looking good for snow this weekend.
 

RUPete90

Senior
Jul 3, 2025
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Little to no snow/precip this weekend - storm looks to be too weak and too far south, which sucks as it'll be plenty cold for snow. Still some time for the storm evolution to change, but not looking good for snow this weekend.
Forgive my very limited knowledge in this area, but is it possible that the system tomorrow needs to clear out before the models can get a better handle on what will happen on Fri-Sat?
 

RUPete90

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Jul 3, 2025
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Youre acting like a 🌭
Not so. I have a long and proud history of hating snow on this board. But as someone who works in a hospital, I always want to be prepared and be able to prepare my colleagues. If that’s being a weenie, then so be it. Why are you so pissed off about everything nowadays? That wasn’t always the case with you.
 
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bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
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Not so. I have a long and proud history of hating snow on this board. But as someone who works in a hospital, I always want to be prepared and be able to prepare my colleagues. If that’s being a weenie, then so be it. Why are you so pissed off about everything nowadays? That wasn’t always the case with you.

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