What did we learn this season!?!?!?!
- Thread starter LakeCtyNewt
- Start date
Yes!!!! And again a 3-6 regular season St Ignatius team(5-6) disemboweled a #1 seed Whitney Young 47-8 in the Prep Bowl. Many teams mostly private schools who finished 4-5,3-6 even 2-7 would have beaten some playoff teams or been more competitive than the ones who got in with 6 or 7 wins in some cases 8 or 9.
Reavis finished 4-5 should have beaten TF South & got in the playoffs. Same team who finished the year losing 57-0 to Shepard & 76-0 to Richards but easily beat playoff team King. This has been going on for years. I remember Argo would go 1-8 & easily beat playoff teams 8-1 Taft & it wouldn’t even be close.
3 win Niles Notre Dame beat playoff team Sterling 17-0 & Providence Catholic missed the playoffs but beat Lincoln Way who made the semifinals by 9.
Just indicates that they were in the wrong class
How do you figure when 4 of the 5 losses were teams in their class or lower.Just indicates that they were in the wrong class
As in they played above their class all season? I wholeheartedly agree and that’s the reason why they can roll through whatever class they qualify for in the post season as they’ve done 8 times in the last 10 seasons.Just indicates that they were in the wrong class
When ESL stops hiding behind some made up conference rule and petitions up to play the big boys maybe Naz will join them. But those who live in glass houses….
ESL was the first to petition and have petitioned for over 16 years! News flash, 6a is a petition as ESL enrollment is 5A. How about yall quit ducking and answer the call to play!!!
Never mind, you responded when we mentioned Naz playing Cahokia.
I have a real sneaking suspicion that now that MC is gone and JCA and Naz are moving up ESL’s conference will magically have a rule change and they can play in a class (by your arguments against Naz) that they belong in and petition to 7a
It is really a matter of safety in my opinion. Some of these 0-9 teams don't belong anywhere near a football field.
Coward response. Don’t talk about ESL when it comes to petitioning or playing up. There is no fear. That’s the point. Same for LA and St Rita.
You, on the other hand have a ton of fear but want to bully LT!
It’s gonna be a No from the conference on going to 7A or 8A . Was talking to an AD at a conference school will not mention name. So ESL will be 6A. So Naz will get their wish.
Coaches routinely do a piss poor job of seeding their sectionals. Some don't even bother to submit seeds.
But Naz IS playing up as I have stated they are a 4a school playing in 5a for the playoffs and against higher classes in the regular season. I don’t think they are afraid of anyone. When they were punished for being successful and playing 3 classes above their true enrollment they took home a first place and second place trophy in back to back years and may have even added a 3rd of not for Covid. They also have a 6a first and second place trophy from when they were punished for being successful earlier and forced to play 2 classes above their true enrollment and they have 4 first place trophies in the class that they are being punished and forced to play in above their enrollment.
So a conference full of 8a schools won’t let a member team petition up to 7 or 8a? Seems crazy but hey if ESL wants a chance to play 2 smaller schools that will be playing significantly above their enrollment in JCA and Naz next year in an attempt to add another trophy Im here for it
Just because they won State doesn’t mean they deserved to get in to the playoff. I agree with Corey that 4-5 teams shouldn’t be in the playoffs, but it seems like with football numbers where they are, and no chance at 6 classes, we may get some in moving forward. Naz won the title and had a great playoff run. Hats off to that team as well as this years Naz team.
Here's a compromise solution. We expand field to 384 teams (48 per class). Each class split into 4 regions of 12 teams. Each region seeds 1-12 (similar process to basketball) and teams 1-4 get byes. More kids get playoff experience, teams don't miss playoffs because they played a difficult schedule, create some regional rivalries, and a likely more competitive final 4. Here is a hypothetical 8A bracket for this year (and yes, I like it because Evanston gets in
). Definitely still some mismatches in there, but I don't think any worse than current system . Regional seeds based on Massey rating.| Chicago | |||
8 | Taft (7-2) | 1 | Marist (8-1) |
9 | Stagg (3-6) | ||
5 | St Ignatius (3-6) | ||
12 | Curie (5-4) | 4 | Glenbard West (4-5) |
7 | Downers Grove-S (7-2) | ||
10 | Lane (3-6) | 2 | Lyons (9-0) |
6 | Hinsdale (4-5) | ||
11 | East Leyden (4-5) | 3 | York (7-2) |
| North | |||
8 | Glenbrook South (5-4) | 1 | Loyola Acad (7-2) |
9 | Stevenson (8-1) | ||
5 | Warren Twp (5-4) | ||
12 | Niles West (5-4) | 4 | Palatine (8-1) |
7 | Huntley (5-4) | ||
10 | Evanston (3-6) | 2 | Maine South (6-3) |
6 | Fremd (8-1) | ||
11 | New Trier (2-7) | 3 | Barrington (7-2) |
| South | |||
8 | Joliet West (5-4) | 1 | Lincoln-Way East (9-0) |
9 | Plainfield South (7-2) | ||
5 | Sandburg (5-4) | ||
12 | Bloom (3-5) | 4 | Lockport Twp (4-5) |
7 | Belleville-East (6-3) | ||
10 | O'Fallon (2-7) | 2 | Edwardsville (6-3) |
6 | Minooka (7-2) | ||
11 | Rich Cent (4-5) | 3 | Homewood-Flossmoor (4-5) |
| West | |||
8 | Bolingbrook (3-6) | 1 | Naperville Cent (8-1) |
9 | Waubonsie Val (5-4) | ||
5 | Neuqua Val (2-7) | ||
12 | Bartlett (4-5) | 4 | Plainfield North (4-5) |
7 | Aurora-West (9-0) | ||
10 | South Elgin (6-3) | 2 | Oswego (9-0) |
6 | Oswego (East) (4-5) | ||
11 | Lake Park (4-5) | 3 | Naperville-North (7-2) |
I can only assume from that post you are saying ESL is making up that the conference is holding them back from playing up higher than 6But Naz IS playing up as I have stated they are a 4a school playing in 5a for the playoffs and against higher classes in the regular season. I don’t think they are afraid of anyone. When they were punished for being successful and playing 3 classes above their true enrollment they took home a first place and second place trophy in back to back years and may have even added a 3rd of not for Covid. They also have a 6a first and second place trophy from when they were punished for being successful earlier and forced to play 2 classes above their true enrollment and they have 4 first place trophies in the class that they are being punished and forced to play in above their enrollment.
So a conference full of 8a schools won’t let a member team petition up to 7 or 8a? Seems crazy but hey if ESL wants a chance to play 2 smaller schools that will be playing significantly above their enrollment in JCA and Naz next year in an attempt to add another trophy Im here for it
A?
It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, in the current system it happens.
If they are good enough to win a state title, I'm not sure what "deserve" means in this situation. Essentially you are saying the kids shouldn't be in the playoffs because their AD created an extremely difficult schedule. Winning state certainly would seem to prove they were one of the best teams in their class, and isn't getting the best teams in the playoffs the goal (imperfectly implemented, obviously)?
This! And the fact that teams go 9-0 and get clocked in the first round on their home field is the counter to the argument that just because a 4-5 team dominated every playoff opponent and won state doesn’t mean they deserve to be in the playoffs because I feel just because the CPS schools win a couple forfeits and beat up each other to go 9-0 shouldn’t mean they should be #1 seed playoff teams robbing the 5-4 teams that will dominate from an extra home game
Let's start with facts. The original conference was all 7a with BE being the only exception of 8A. In recent years E'ville and O'fallon have gone between 7 and 8a. Heck in 2010 BE was 7A. So the conference put the rule in simply because the didn't want ESL to petition up in all sports. Basketball is 3A and the rest of the conference is 4A. Now that we got that out the way, as stated before. ESL has NO FEAR!But Naz IS playing up as I have stated they are a 4a school playing in 5a for the playoffs and against higher classes in the regular season. I don’t think they are afraid of anyone. When they were punished for being successful and playing 3 classes above their true enrollment they took home a first place and second place trophy in back to back years and may have even added a 3rd of not for Covid. They also have a 6a first and second place trophy from when they were punished for being successful earlier and forced to play 2 classes above their true enrollment and they have 4 first place trophies in the class that they are being punished and forced to play in above their enrollment.
So a conference full of 8a schools won’t let a member team petition up to 7 or 8a? Seems crazy but hey if ESL wants a chance to play 2 smaller schools that will be playing significantly above their enrollment in JCA and Naz next year in an attempt to add another trophy Im here for it
Naz enrollment is 300 kids less than ESL. The enrollment numbers for ESL is 65% girls which mean there are roughly 400 boys in the school. No matter what the numbers are, ESL is not going below 6A. See the difference.
Now to answer your statement, ESL asked to come up an play Naz for your week 2 opening that a you seemingly have every year. ESL even considered canceling the classic to do so. No response from Naz. This year the same email was sent but reference playing cahokia, Naz responded right away. Then after agreeing to play the game, the AD tried to backdoor and contact Cahokia to come up there. Again, a COWARD move.
In conclusion, I suggest you just enjoy your championship and keep ESL out of your little typing spree. The state knows ESL operates without fear of competition. Please don't compare Naz to ESL. The fact that you think 7A is a punishment says it all to me.
I shall be encouraging Rita to petition up to 7A again for another two years, especially if 6A stays at the southern/northern boundary format. Currently, she is 6A enrollment. Congrats to ESL on their awesome season this year!
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Maybe “deserve” isn’t the right word. Maybe I would say that I don’t believe a 4-5 teams shouldn’t has “earned” their way into the playoffs? Not sure that’s any better. In any case, I just think that it should be a minimum record of 5-4 to qualify; but it doesn’t matter what I think, the system is in place and no one’s changing it because no one is putting proposals in front of the ihsa.
Which brings us to another point. Do schools really see it as a problem other than the vocal minority? If this is such an injustice against public schools, they have the numbers to ram something through.
I would like it if the AP top 10 sets the top 10 seeds for every bracket. The remaining 22 are chosen at large based on records.
So when Naz went 4-5 last year I’m pretty sure they were in the top 5 definitely the top 10. PR was the number 1 and got knocked out by them at home in the first round. A game that should have and could have been a quarterfinal game if we took the AP top 10 into consideration. For the most part unless you’re a sandbagging Tuccs or a meatball that doesn’t know about hs football the AP 10 is pretty accurate.
So when Naz went 4-5 last year I’m pretty sure they were in the top 5 definitely the top 10. PR was the number 1 and got knocked out by them at home in the first round. A game that should have and could have been a quarterfinal game if we took the AP top 10 into consideration. For the most part unless you’re a sandbagging Tuccs or a meatball that doesn’t know about hs football the AP 10 is pretty accurate.
Hard pass on the AP having anything to do with seeding, my god that would be awful.
They barely cobbled an AP top 10 together this year, not sure if they even polled through week 9.
Maybe on to something but "who is on the committee" would be the big question.
Why not use a computer-based system?
Here is the issue I have with regional seeding...we don't get the best teams in the finals. It's the IHSA theory that regional represntation is the best solution. Plus. you want more playoff teams. The reality is less is better.Here's a compromise solution. We expand field to 384 teams (48 per class). Each class split into 4 regions of 12 teams. Each region seeds 1-12 (similar process to basketball) and teams 1-4 get byes. More kids get playoff experience, teams don't miss playoffs because they played a difficult schedule, create some regional rivalries, and a likely more competitive final 4. Here is a hypothetical 8A bracket for this year (and yes, I like it because Evanston gets in
Chicago Taft (7-2) Marist (8-1) Stagg (3-6) St Ignatius (3-6) Curie (5-4) Glenbard West (4-5) Downers Grove-S (7-2) Lane (3-6) Lyons (9-0) Hinsdale (4-5) East Leyden (4-5) York (7-2) North Glenbrook South (5-4) Loyola Acad (7-2) Stevenson (8-1) Warren Twp (5-4) Niles West (5-4) Palatine (8-1) Huntley (5-4) Evanston (3-6) Maine South (6-3) Fremd (8-1) New Trier (2-7) Barrington (7-2) South Joliet West (5-4) Lincoln-Way East (9-0) Plainfield South (7-2) Sandburg (5-4) Bloom (3-5) Lockport Twp (4-5) Belleville-East (6-3) O'Fallon (2-7) Edwardsville (6-3) Minooka (7-2) Rich Cent (4-5) Homewood-Flossmoor (4-5) West Bolingbrook (3-6) Naperville Cent (8-1) Waubonsie Val (5-4) Neuqua Val (2-7) Bartlett (4-5) Plainfield North (4-5) Aurora-West (9-0) South Elgin (6-3) Oswego (9-0) Oswego (East) (4-5) Lake Park (4-5) Naperville-North (7-2)
Yeah I quickly changed my mind and followed up with a committee idea
I find the debate between public and private schools enjoyable, but this raises a concern for me. Although I know it's not feasible, I wish we could implement a tiered system like European soccer. The "Championship Class" would be exciting, featuring schools like LWE, MC, ESTL, Maine South, and others. Meanwhile, other programs could compete for something meaningful instead of facing losses like 56-0 in the state playoffs.
Yeah computer is great but how would a computer have ranked that 4-5 team because I feel it was the human aspect that knew they had more than a punchers chance
My very simple proposal that I think results in something like this (can't keep track of which thread its in, maybe this one?) is that classes are divided by how many kids are in the program. I think you would find pretty quickly that the teams at the very top have 200+ kids in their program. All the kids in a school not playing football don't really help you win games, so enrollment seems a less accurate way to try to balance competition vs. # of kids playing at your school. Fair to assume many of the privates will play in a higher division than their enrollment would indicate because I'm guessing a higher % of boys in the school play football.