Yes this loss hurts. But I cant wait to see what the future holds. Cant wait to see Cliff's improvement after a full off season of working out and developing. I think he will be drastically improved. Cant wait to see Jones and Miller. I still think Mag would have contributed a lot this year if he hadnt gotten hurt. And then theres the transfer portal. Rutgers is now a much more attractive destination. And this should also help recruiting get to another level. The future is bright.
Try to be optimistic about the future
- Thread starter knight82
- Start date
Here is my assessment of our future.
Myles - returns and is a double double guy next year
Cliff - makes the jump and becomes a force on the defensive end. Offense still raw but we saw glimpes here and there. Need to work on the hands first
Mathis- gets more consistent performances but frustrates us from time to time.
McConnell - stays the same but gets healthier and can maybe not airball so much.
Paul - has his moments but cuts down on the turnovers.
Ron - finds a groove with his shot but plays closer to what he didn't in the last 5 games. 15ppg
Palmquist - transfers or doesn't do much.
Reiber - grows into a bench role and plays some meaningful minutes.
Jones - could start next year but will be an important rotation peice next season.
Mag - idk he's athletic but doesn't seem to have much offensive skill.
Douc - gone
Depending on spots hoping for a transfer.
Prediction - 19-11 bubble to 10 seed range
Myles - returns and is a double double guy next year
Cliff - makes the jump and becomes a force on the defensive end. Offense still raw but we saw glimpes here and there. Need to work on the hands first
Mathis- gets more consistent performances but frustrates us from time to time.
McConnell - stays the same but gets healthier and can maybe not airball so much.
Paul - has his moments but cuts down on the turnovers.
Ron - finds a groove with his shot but plays closer to what he didn't in the last 5 games. 15ppg
Palmquist - transfers or doesn't do much.
Reiber - grows into a bench role and plays some meaningful minutes.
Jones - could start next year but will be an important rotation peice next season.
Mag - idk he's athletic but doesn't seem to have much offensive skill.
Douc - gone
Depending on spots hoping for a transfer.
Prediction - 19-11 bubble to 10 seed range
the future is shaky until we know who is back, there is a very good chance this program has deep holes to fill next year and will need a strong transfer portal haul to return to the NCAAs
Im thinking it all depends on who stays and who we get in the transfer portal. Worst case scenario - NIT next year and back to the NCAA the following year.
If Myles, Geo and JY leave, it’s going to take 2 high level transfers at minimum for this to contend for a tourney spot next year. Would also rely on our incoming freshman proving themselves as serious contributors, barring drastic growth from the Mag/Palm/Reiber crop (of which I think Mag has the most potential to help out)
I would be willing to bet you anything it wont be another 30 years. Of course I wont be alive in thirty years for you to collect if Im wrong.
With all the transfer movement, I can’t imagine we don’t lose a player or two also. With only one impact recruit last year and one or two this year, we’ll need at least a couple of impact transfers to return to the tournament
im actually okay with not making the ncaa next year, I just want a bridge season and we will need a couple players to do that. We can free fall to 10-20...have to get to 15-15 and keep some momentum and hope to get land some recruits for the following year
That’s fair. More than content with that happening so long as the future appears to keep shaping up well. 2022 class is big — Pike needs to make a splash or two to keep a good thing going
All about the transfer market. I expect JY Geo Mathis to leave. Maybe Myles too but don’t think that’ll hurt much.
Get the best guards/wings you can and plug next to Cliff and Ron.
Honestly, and hold your scream for when you disagree and discuss instead, I think we can upgrade from Geo fairly easy at guard (but we’ll see how Pike does). JY will be a tough replace and losing Mathis will hurt our flexibility but can also replace.
We can offer two transfers the keys at guard/wing and have the Paul McConnell Jones and I think Mag all fill in to support.
Get the best guards/wings you can and plug next to Cliff and Ron.
Honestly, and hold your scream for when you disagree and discuss instead, I think we can upgrade from Geo fairly easy at guard (but we’ll see how Pike does). JY will be a tough replace and losing Mathis will hurt our flexibility but can also replace.
We can offer two transfers the keys at guard/wing and have the Paul McConnell Jones and I think Mag all fill in to support.
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I think you way underestimate Myles' defensive impact.
Yea so I am with you on this one. I think Cliff is going to develop into one of the nation's top NBA big-man recruits. I know he didn't dominate the position this year, but this kid has the body of a stallion and and far and leagues, leagues more athletic ability than a Iowa Garza or Ohio State Young. Or even a Illinois Cockburn. None of those kids have the pure athleticism combined with God given basketball ability that Cliff has.
Rutgers is looking damn good for a long, long time.
agree, Myles has a massive impact on our defense. Huge drop off when he comes off the floor
Myles is a great interior defender. Doesn’t help the offense at all. Think doing the above we can be a net positive. Teams that put him in high ball screens often really neutralized him. Cliff has great potential on both ends he’ll be a year better with more flexibility each way.
I posted this on another thread but I'll repeat it here. The more I think about it, the more I think this is not the way Geo and Myles wanted to go out at Rutgers. They might feel there is unfinished business to take care of
It’s all about Myles. If he stays we are fine. If he leaves we are in trouble.
Absolutely, if Johnson leaves, it will hurt big time. We might be a last place team without him or a suitable replacement. We can just go into the B1G with Omoruyi our only big man. That would be a disaster.
I have a feeling too that Myles and Geo being roommates for 4 years may both return. I am sure things will be known probably over the next month or so. It would be wonderful if both returned plus Jacob as well.
I never expected Jacob to return next year (he's a grad student that can get paid good money to play basketball). Geo, wouldn't be shocked if he left as he wouldn't be back anyway next year if it wasn't for this free year. Myles- who knows. As I always say, those that graduate earn the opportunity to look at other opportunities as he more than exceeded expectations for a student athlete. RHJ - if he declares for the draft without an agent, it wouldn't shock me but he can make himself more money by taking in that feedback and working on his weaknesses. Doucere- I wouldn't be shocked if he transferred down to a lower-level D-1 program where he can play more and attempt to get an opportunity to play professionally somewhere. Any of the other potential transfer candidates- who knows in this day of college sports. Regardless, they got to the Tourney this year, won a game and almost won a second, and now it's a lot easier to see the vision to recruits going forward!
Really not buying this just yet. Cliff is going to get better and has big upside both ends of the floor that Myles didnt have.
Three reasons: 1) Myles is only a solid interior defender; gets exposed in high ball screen 2) Kofi gone Garza gone; two teams return bigs that will give freshman cliff a hard time, Williams and Dickinson 3) If Myles is gone I’m of the belief that means returning ships accounted for are cliff ron Caleb Paul Jones mag reiber Palmquist miller leaving four to add another big body to compliment
I know there aren't fans of Baker for obvious reasons but the fact remains that RU as a program does not value the basketball....and ironically the fans believe replacing Jacob Young will be difficult.....it's really not an issue, unless you are valuing individual play.
Jacob Young led the entire B1G in TOs per game (until today's game where Ayo Dousumu, somehow passed him with his hideous 6 TOs vs Loyola Chicago)....and I know if you reduce your turning it over, you get another shot or 2 per game.
Dousumu........3.2
Jacob Young.....3.0
Aaron Henry (MSU) 2.9
Curbelo........2.5 (Illinois)
Teddy Allen (Nebraska) 2.5
Banton (Nebraska) 2.5
Williams (Purdue) 2.4
McGowan (Nebraska 2.3
Audige.....(NWestern) 2.3
Franklin (Indiana) 2.2
Jackson-Davis.....(Indiana) 2.2
Washington (Ohio State) 2.2
Dickinson (Michigan) 2.2
Mike Smith (Michigan) 2.1
Morsell (Maryland) 2.1
There are things that are missed opportunities that pile up over the course of a season. It is almost impossible if you look at it objectively and see Ayo and 3.2 and Curbelo at 2.5 and start a game with essentially 6 turnovers from your 2 best players, and beat an efficient, well coached team most nights....Illinois was dead on arrival, 5 minutes into today's game vs Loyola.....
Any guard RU replaces with Young, if that is an average player has a TO range at 2 to 1.5 per game. Mulcahy and Baker are at 1.6, Mathis at 1.1, but probably cut down on his minutes being reduced down the stretch.
These are correctable items as RU retools this roster in the backcourt, but watching now 4 straight games of NCAAs and 4 months of games, lesser talented and skilled players who value possessions at the guard position, wins games more often than not. RU wasn't beating Cuse or Loyola Chicago turning the ball over at this consistently high a rate.
Pike, Knight and Hobbs need to clamp down on this to keep RU on the right path, but Youngs loss will not be an issue IMO.
JYs usage rate was high as a necessity - this team had limited offense without him being the catalyst (Ayo usage rate same deal for that matter - love that your accidentally comparing him to the best guard in the conference).
Even with a usage rate more than double Paul he only averaged 2.4 more turnovers per 100 possessions than Paul.
All the while, he was by far our best perimeter defender and the only one who could consistently stop ball (Mathis close second - also possibly on his way out).
Paul is below average perimeter defender on his best day and Geo below average to average. A transfer guard will likely be a defensive upgrade over Geo.
Of course, it would still be nice to take care of the ball more but that problem isn’t fixed because JY leaves.
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Usage rate is not a indicator of turning it over....it comes down to common sense. I can equate probably half to 65% of Mulcahys turning it over by overpassing.....his numbers improved (other than a reckless outlet pass that went for a cheap layup).
Young and his talent level, speed and quickness is why his usage level was higher. Other players like Trice, Bohannon and countless others have usage rates and are still way lower across the board.
Young had more turnovers this year in less games played, vs last year....at 30 minutes a game, 3.0 is very high.....and I can almost assure anyone who watched Illinois, no one dominated the ball more than Ayo and Curbelo.....both are dribbling machines and it's why they're home early from the NCAAs.
But, better days for RU guards are coming in the future, so I am grateful for Young and his infusion of energy and never say die attitude....but the numbers are the numbers....
2020 turnovers per 100 possessions: 5.8
2021 turnovers per 100 possessions: 5.8
Im sorry but you’ve got it wrong in this subject.
Also, Trice might be close to JY usage (doubt it) but Bohannon surely is no where near Young . Although I’m not clear on why you brought them up anyway.
Mulchay has not improved his turnovers - have gone up year over year.
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I'm going to be optimistic heading into next year that a core of Harper / Jones / Cliff / Montez / Mulcahy / Caleb / Mag / Oskar / Miler and hopefully Harrar etc will be enough to challenge for a NCAA bid again.
Most importantly, we need to see development from Mag / Oskar / Cliff / Jones and Miller to succeed and hopefully the kids learned from the seniors how to win.
Most importantly, we need to see development from Mag / Oskar / Cliff / Jones and Miller to succeed and hopefully the kids learned from the seniors how to win.
You're supporting my argument....LOL
He played less minutes per game last year but still led team in TOs.....
Please find another path....You're not going to find a way to defend 3.0 TOs per game.
Ayo Dousumu at 3.2 is somewhat explained based on him being a likely mid 1st round NBA player....he was asked to play point because Illinois wanted to bring Curbelo along, but decided to give him the ball, to reduce Ayo and his workload.
The difference between what Illinois does and how RU plays is drastically different. I would be shocked if anyone ever averaged 3.0 TOs per game in any major conference. And the fact remains that it took Pike revamping the lineup with Young and Mathis going out of the starting lineup after the long losing streak, to right things and salvage the season.
RU needs better guard play....we didn't get it with any consistency across the board and the TO numbers support that.
This could not be more backwards.
Also, you just make things up now. Just to name guys in major conference guys who turn it over 4 TIMES a game just this season:
Cade Cunningham
Sahvid Wheeler
Sharife Cooper
with the portal
and the free year
and the ATC
we better find a couple "hired guns" (and I mean that in a totally NCAA compliant way) during the off-season - enjoy your 2 weeks off coach -- and then get to it......
and the free year
and the ATC
we better find a couple "hired guns" (and I mean that in a totally NCAA compliant way) during the off-season - enjoy your 2 weeks off coach -- and then get to it......
just look at cliff senior year and look at him now. He is a beast physically. He is going to be an absolute freak to deal with.
The future is very bright. Let's assume that the seniors leave and everyone else stays. That leaves us with Paul, Ron, Caleb, Cliff, and montez as a starting five. Caleb won the game for us against Clemson, Montez was great other than one possession against Houston, Cliff showed some life, Paul played well.... This is a good core.
Most importantly, we need everyone to get better. Can't take this summer off reading the headlines..... Need to get better.
Most importantly, we need everyone to get better. Can't take this summer off reading the headlines..... Need to get better.
Should have read this before typing.... thie is perfect. How could you not be optomistic with guys who started and perfromed well for us are coming back with key reserves.....
We all bitched about Geo, JY and Myles at times now when they are gone all of a sudden they are irreplaceable. Funny how that works.
IU fan here.....I feel really bad for you guys. You had a team that was really easy to root for. Best of luck in the future.
If all of our guys leave as expected what about other B1G teams who's guys stay. We may be in trouble.
already mass exodus at Penn State, Minnestota...Garza graduating, Livers graduating. Illinois, anyone expecting Ayo to stay? Wisconsin will be a young team. I don't see any runaway freight trains next season.
Just remember that 3 of the top teams in the league in Iowa, Wisconsin and Illinois will be losing a ton. Purdue loses their big man. Indiana, Minny and Penn St are losing a lot to transfer.
it's all going to come down to who gets who in the transfer portal. That's the state of college athletics these days. And Rutgers is a more attractive destination now
Hurt turns into Hunger. I fully expect everyone in the APC around the clock this summer. This team is going to feel sorry for themselves for a few days and then they're going to get back to work. With another summer of conditioning, I think RHJ makes the leap we all thought he'd make this year. We'll get December RHJ for a full season in 21-22. If Myles stays, he and Cliff will really be a killer duo and make life hell for our opponents for 40 minutes. Myles gets 25 at the 5. Cliff gets 15 at the 5 and 5-10 at the 4. Another offseason for Mulcahy, Caleb, Montez, and the freshman to work and get stronger/better. Who knows what's coming in the transfer portal.
Last night was gutting. Tomorrow is VERY exciting.
2 of the 3 players you mentioned are 1st round NBA draft picks.....those players are given the ball and asked to carry their respective teams.....Cooper and Cunningham are Top 15 to 25 national recruits.....Cunningham is the consensus Top pick in the 2021 draft.....to even mention turnovers out of context on what talent level the player is, good luck....LOL
Cunningham is the TOP OVERALL recruit for 2020.....do you watch the games???
Geo’s interview gives me a ton of hope that I didn’t have before. Stating he hasn’t made a decision yet but the one thing he knows is he wants to go out a winner after a gut wrenching loss tells me if he thinks we’re going to be good next year he may have one more ride in him. If he already knew he was moving on, he’d have done what JY did. No - his tone sounds different. He loves Pike and Pike has been loyal to his “boys”. NIL not withstanding. It’s not out of the cards for Pike to take Geo and MJ aside and say - if you come back, let’s consult together on who to try to get from the portal to build on your legacy.