Dead last in the dead period

[Laner2]

As I recall, people WERE calling for TO to be fired. Fans felt he was doomed to always be a "close but not quite there" coach who took a backseat to larger-than-life personalities like Barry Switzer and then Jimmy Johnson.

Then TO make two changes in his philosophy: 1. Speed speed speed, signaled best by switching Ed Stewart from safety to LB. 2. Recruiting the best players instead of the best high character players. In the 80's we were proud of all our Academic All-Americans. In the 90's we brought in guys like Phillips and the Peters brothers.

No, I am not advocating that we follow suit. Every decade sees changes in what works. I also believe that we need to hang on to Frost and see what he can do long term. Yes, I am critical of his performance-- because it deserves criticism. Being a fan doesn't mean loving everything all the time to me.

Hedonistic said that. The balance of your post is spot on.

 

[Laner2]

It’s far more likely he endures a 4th straight losing season than him winning 9 games. The only thing that’s been clear is he’s in over his head.

The rotating staffs stink… Frost is not going to magically turn in to some great HC…the red flags were there in year 1 and it’s only getting worse on and off the field.

It’s far more likely he endures a 4th straight losing season than him winning 9 games. The only thing that’s been clear is he’s in over his head.

>>>>>You have no clue if this is true and this is just your opinion, or your hope.

that’s why it would be great if the athletic department got it right.

>>>>>Every damned hire is a best-guess unless you're a member of the nostradami class. Pretty sure no AD sat in his office and said, "I'm going to hose the State over with this hire. What fun for me!"

Frost is not going to magically turn in to some great HC…

>>>>>Again, your opinion, and you're welcome to it as well as the other singular thing people possess.

the red flags were there in year 1 and it’s only getting worse on and off the field.

>>>>>>Really? The red flags were there in year 1? And they were different from any other new HC hire? This is where it is so easy to dismiss the lack of reasoned discourse you offer.

and it’s only getting worse on and off the field.

>>>>>>This isn't just your uninformed opinion, it's your hope. There's been an infection of Mystery posters on lately. Consider joining them.

 

[EastOregonHusker]

Yes, or rather I'm confident Frost and his staff have learned a bitter lesson about the B1G. The sniping I'm hearing about Frost is the same damned thing I heard about TO from 73 to 78......9-3? Pffft. Still can't beat OU. Remember the old joke that it took TO three hours to drive from Lincoln to Omaha because he wouldn't pass? Well, TO learned some valuable lessons in the late 80s. He revamped his offense and defense, and the rest is history.

Would you have have fired TO in 89? I'm guessing you would have.

For going 10-2? No. While it was disappointing to consistently get bested by a top 5-10 program, it wasn’t quite consistently losing to Northwestern.

 

[Anon1716780950]

5. None of the above

Recruiting Rankings in July are meaningless.

 

[EastOregonHusker]

5. None of the above

Recruiting Rankings in July are meaningless.

I will say that this is true. Also I’m not sure it would be a good thing if we had a bunch of kids committing to Nebraska from out of state without visiting the campus. As critical as I am of this staff at this point, it is unfair to judge this class in July.

 

[TruHusker]

5. None of the above

Recruiting Rankings in July are meaningless.

So, if Nebraska had tOSU's class, that too would be meaningless?

I understand it's not where you are in July but where you end up in December that counts. But to say what goes on in between is meaningless is, well, a meaningless comment.

 

[timnsun]

So, if Nebraska had tOSU's class, that too would be meaningless?

I understand it's not where you are in July but where you end up in December that counts. But to say what goes on in between is meaningless is, well, a meaningless comment.

I think the point is, hand-wringing in July is meaningless. What the coaches do in July is not meaningless. There’s a difference between coaches and fans, wouldn’t you agree?

 

[dinglefritz]

I will say that this is true. Also I’m not sure it would be a good thing if we had a bunch of kids committing to Nebraska from out of state without visiting the campus. As critical as I am of this staff at this point, it is unfair to judge this class in July.

Most intelligent people believe that the best time to evaluate a class is after they've been in the program for 3 years. After their junior year you should know what most of them are capable of. In retrospect we can say with some certainty that Frost's first hasty class was a flop with the exceptions of a couple of guys. That shouldn't have been that big of surprise I guess given how they were scrambling to try to fill needs.

 

[Headcard]

So, if Nebraska had tOSU's class, that too would be meaningless?

I understand it's not where you are in July but where you end up in December that counts. But to say what goes on in between is meaningless is, well, a meaningless comment.

In a sense it would. What matters is where the class ends up, not when they verbal. If we had OSU’s class now and then half of them left, would it matter what the class looked like in July?

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

In a sense it would. What matters is where the class ends up, not when they verbal. If we had OSU’s class now and then half of them left, would it matter what the class looked like in July?

The point being that if Nebraska was sitting number one in July, the same people saying wait till December now wouldn’t be saying wait till December if that were the case. It would be look how great Scott Frost is recruiting.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Most intelligent people believe that the best time to evaluate a class is after they've been in the program for 3 years. After their junior year you should know what most of them are capable of. In retrospect we can say with some certainty that Frost's first hasty class was a flop with the exceptions of a couple of guys. That shouldn't have been that big of surprise I guess given how they were scrambling to try to fill needs.

15 years ago that was the case, any more not so much. Too many true freshman and sophomores are making impacts even at schools like Ohio state and Alabama.

 

[dinglefritz]

15 years ago that was the case, any more not so much. Too many true freshman and sophomores are making impacts even at schools like Ohio state and Alabama.

In individual cases yes you can evaluate guys. Classes as a whole still need to have time to get on the field. Ohio State and Alabama are outliers.

 

[timnsun]

The point being that if Nebraska was sitting number one in July, the same people saying wait till December now wouldn’t be saying wait till December if that were the case. It would be look how great Scott Frost is recruiting.

Totally agree. It is a double standard.

That being said, Frost’s history suggests that judging a class in July is foolish. Maybe this year is different. But historically, come December he has had good classes, at least on paper.

 

[egaRdeR]

The point being that if Nebraska was sitting number one in July, the same people saying wait till December now wouldn’t be saying wait till December if that were the case. It would be look how great Scott Frost is recruiting.

I mean, to the same point, if we were sitting where OSU is right now, the people playing chicken little wouldn't be, right? Of course they would be saying, wait til December because nobody is committed yet.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Totally agree. It is a double standard.

That being said, Frost’s history suggests that judging a class in July is foolish. Maybe this year is different. But historically, come December he has had good classes, at least on paper.

We have never been dead last in recruiting in the Big Ten at any time. It is quite possible this class will not have a 4 star player sign. To point that out is not handwringing it is a legit concern.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

I mean, to the same point, if we were sitting where OSU is right now, the people playing chicken little wouldn't be, right? Of course they would be saying, wait til December because nobody is committed yet.

Read my response to Timsun. Same thing applies.

 

[dinglefritz]

We have never been dead last in recruiting in the Big Ten at any time. It is quite possible this class will not have a 4 star player sign. To point that out is not handwringing it is a legit concern.

No doubt it is concerning. I don't think though given our last 3 years of results on the field anybody should be surprised that we don't have commitments from a bunch of 4 star kids. I've said multiple times that we need to win this year. A fast start on the field would help us land better talent this year still. It's why I don't want us filling up this class early. IF by some wild fantasy we could beat OU or at least make it a close game even, I think we might pick up some kids who aren't interested in us right now. I think with the COVID factor, there is going to be a lot of talent still available this fall.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

In individual cases yes you can evaluate guys. Classes as a whole still need to have time to get on the field. Ohio State and Alabama are outliers.

Agree to disagree. Most schools competing for division and league titles are not waiting 3 years to see if a dude is going to be in the rotation or a significant contributor. In Nebraska’s case we can look at the 2019 class right now and make a pretty decent assumption on who is going to play a Significant role and if they are meeting the level they were expected to.

 

[Laner2]

For going 10-2? No. While it was disappointing to consistently get bested by a top 5-10 program, it wasn’t quite consistently losing to Northwestern.

No one likes losing any game but let's not be disingenuous about Northwestern in 89 and Northwestern now. Again, arguing from the extremes is just intellectually lazy.

 

[dinglefritz]

Agree to disagree. Most schools competing for division and league titles are not waiting 3 years to see if a dude is going to be in the rotation or a significant contributor. In Nebraska’s case we can look at the 2019 class right now and make a pretty decent assumption on who is going to play a Significant role and if they are meeting the level they were expected to.

So were the 4 star guys who don't start for OSU until they were juniors busts? Really if you want to be exact on evaluations of a recruiting class you have to wait until ALL of their careers are done and all of the available information on the whole class is done. You're talking individuals or parts of classes and I'm talking the whole class. In the case of Frost's first class at NU the results are obvious because the few guys who are left can't compensate for all of the guys who are gonzo. Obviously you can evaluate a class at any stage of their college career but the most accurate would be done after the class is done.

 

[John_J_Rambo_rivals315142]

who cares? we are a basketball school and just signed our best class ever!

 

[TruHusker]

I think the point is, hand-wringing in July is meaningless. What the coaches do in July is not meaningless. There’s a difference between coaches and fans, wouldn’t you agree?

Well, there is obviously a difference between the two you describe - one is personal choice (worry) and the other is outcome based (coaches).

It's a bottom line, total sum game in the end no matter how you slice it up. To me that means every part of it and every step along the way has some significance leading up to the final outcome.

And no I don't worry about such things but any air breathing fan should be concerned about the current trend.

As an analogy, the process of preparing for a game goes on for weeks in the weight room, spring.and fall practices and weekly preparation - the game is the final culmination but all are equally as important.

 

[DoyleKenady]

I hope every remaining spot goes to a blue chip. But at present, that isn't the main problem. The players that control Frost's fate as NU HC are already on the roster. On paper, both Riley and Frost outcompeted Pelini, but Pelini won 9-10 games/year.

I see this statement a lot and I was a huge Pelini fan...

But the biggest difference I see is that the B1G in general is MUCH better than it was during Pelini's time. The gap from the bottom dwellers to the mid level, middle of the pack teams has closed. And the strength of the middle of the pack has equalized a bit.

You still have the top tier on both divisions. They were just as good back then with OSU and Wisconsin but we were good enough to give Wiscy a run initially.

We have had some regression, but the B1G has definitely gotten better. It made our problem much worse. Michigan before HB was a dumpster fire, Minnesota before Kill ramp made them decent (then they row boats), Purdue before Brohm was god awful, Indiana was a joke and Illinois was still Illinois but even worse.

 

[TFrazier_rivals269992]

who cares? we are a basketball school and just signed our best class ever!

Nebraska Basketball is taking it up a notch but they are not quite at the recruiting level of the volleyball program. Winking

Nebraska Fall 2020 Volleyball Recruiting Class

 

[Headcard]

The point being that if Nebraska was sitting number one in July, the same people saying wait till December now wouldn’t be saying wait till December if that were the case. It would be look how great Scott Frost is recruiting.

So you are worried that Frost isn’t getting enough criticism? Seems like that should not be a concern right now.

It just seems silly to me to judge a partially finished class as if it is finished. It seems pretty clear that this class won’t end up being ranked as high as the last couple, but it’s also not going to end up #55 or whatever either and looking through that lense in July doesn’t make much sense.

 

[John_J_Rambo_rivals315142]

Nebraska Basketball is taking it up a notch but they are not quite at the recruiting level of the volleyball program. Winking

Nebraska Fall 2020 Volleyball Recruiting Class

I know this is sacrilege, but I do not care at all about volleyball

 

[timnsun]

We have never been dead last in recruiting in the Big Ten at any time. It is quite possible this class will not have a 4 star player sign. To point that out is not handwringing it is a legit concern.

Good points, as always… and as most on this board know, as an optimist, I just don’t get worked up about it. It’s absolutely a double standard for me. I freely admit it.

I would be posting a lot more if we were top 5 right now, because I would be that much more excited. I guess my sense is if we are still dead last with no 4 stars in October (after hosting recruits on game days) then I’ll start the hand-wringing.

 

[timnsun]

Let me also add, and this is no surprise to the board, I give more time in general to the coaches. I gave more time to Riley than most, and I may be doing the exact same thing with Frost.

The biggest difference is the connection to the hometown school. If Frost can figure out how to turn things around, we are set for a long time to come. As a result, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Frost in the hopes that he figures it out. Maybe that blinds me to things that are happening in Lincoln that should be a concern.

Rational thoughts and emotional thoughts are at war within me. Right now, the heart is still winning. If things don’t change this year, maybe the rational thoughts take over.

 

[dinglefritz]

Let me also add, and this is no surprise to the board, I give more time in general to the coaches. I gave more time to Riley than most, and I may be doing the exact same thing with Frost.

The biggest difference is the connection to the hometown school. If Frost can figure out how to turn things around, we are set for a long time to come. As a result, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Frost in the hopes that he figures it out. Maybe that blinds me to things that are happening in Lincoln that should be a concern.

Rational thoughts and emotional thoughts are at war within me. Right now, the heart is still winning. If things don’t change this year, maybe the rational thoughts take over.

I think your thoughts from the heart are rational as well. As you said, IF Frost gets this going we'll be set for a long long time. Rationally I don't think anybody thinks the odds are great of that being the case if Frost were canned and we started over...again.

 

[TruHusker]

Let me also add, and this is no surprise to the board, I give more time in general to the coaches. I gave more time to Riley than most, and I may be doing the exact same thing with Frost.

The biggest difference is the connection to the hometown school. If Frost can figure out how to turn things around, we are set for a long time to come. As a result, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Frost in the hopes that he figures it out. Maybe that blinds me to things that are happening in Lincoln that should be a concern.

Rational thoughts and emotional thoughts are at war within me. Right now, the heart is still winning. If things don’t change this year, maybe the rational thoughts take over.

I understand where you are coming from. It makes perfectly good sense to wait it out with a known commodity that has personal connections versus someone up and coming who is mostly loyal to a paycheck.

The problem is, I keep hearing the phrase in various forms - when Frost gets this figured out or when he does, etc. The question is why hasn't he? There isn't what I would consider a high degree of optimism going into this season even given the shear number of returning players. In short, there is a major negative confidence factor towards success.

You have to wonder if Frost really has what it takes and that super special football mind. Few have it, it is indeed rare. Tom was the best of all time and Frost has him to consult which would be where I would be much of the time. Here is my take. Some have been brutally honest with Frost and he knows things haven't improved albeit on paper they appear to have. He is stuck with either falling on the sword himself or starting to bring in a more experienced and talented assistant coaching staff.

If the frustration of this year mirrors the last three, things will get ugly as well they should. The sunshine pumpers eventually have to face reality where some of us have been living the last couple of years to a chorus of boos.

Even if Frost had the most brilliant FB mind which I do not thing he has, he cannot overcome the lack of assistant coaching skills this young group desperately needs.

Somehow and someway the most optimistic fan has to wonder what is going on and why things don't improve. Riley leaving a bare cupboard is not a good answer anymore.

 

[timnsun]

I understand where are coming from. It makes perfectly good sense to wait it out with a known commodity that has personal connections versus someone up and coming who is mostly loyal to a paycheck.

The problem is, I keep hearing the phrase in various forms - when Frost gets this figured out or when he does, etc. The question is why hasn't he? There isn't what I would consider a high degree of optimism going into this season even given the shear number if returning players. In short, there is a major confidence factor towards success.

You have to wonder if Frost really has what it takes with that super special football mind works. Few have it, it is indeed rare. Tom was the best of all time and Frost has him to consult which would be where I would be much of the time. Here is my take. Some have been brutally honest with Frost and he knows things haven't improved albeit on paper. He is stuck with either falling on the sword himself or starting to bring in a more experienced and talented assistant coaching staff.

If the frustration of this year mirrors the last three, things will get ugly as well they should. The sunshine pumpers eventually have to face reality where some of us have been living the last couple of years to a chorus of boos.

Even if Frost had the most brilliant FB mind which I do not thing he has, he cannot overcome the lack of assistant coaching skills this young group desperately needs.

Somehow and someway the most optimistic fan has to wonder what is going on and why things don't improve. Riley leaving a bare cupboard is not a good answer anymore.

I actually agree with a lot of this… which is why I am saying if this year is more of the same, I am not sure he ever figured it out. I believe some of the reasons (or excuses, take your pick) are believable to date; lack of talent, lack of experience, an OLine that hasn’t been up to snuff… but he hasn’t done himself any favors withers with his play calling and his development as well.

My tolerance is more than yours, probably because I want him to succeed so badly. That’s not a good reason all by itself, but the other reason is I don’t think the revolving door has been good either. Change some assistants if you must, but Frost should stay (IMO) if there is any pulse shown this year.

 

[artguy68]

To the "worrying about the recruiting class in July is meaningless" folk: this is a comment board on a site that specifically covers football recruiting. Aren't we SUPPOSED to be talking about recruiting in July? And August? And September? And October? And...? I'm certainly not here to discuss politics (although I wouldn't mind more discussion on yoga pants).

FWIW-- RSS is "worrying" about it far more than this board.

 

[BHoppy]

Last four years you have been 21st, 15th, 17th and 18th ranked. I would wait until Dec. to get too excited.

 

[TruHusker]

Last four years you have been 21st, 15th, 17th and 18th ranked. I would wait until Dec. to get too excited.

If that is the "standard" you wish to compare, then where were we at this same time of year in each of the years you stated above. I realize it isn't where you are its where you end up but there can be a steep hill to climb.

 

[Laner2]

To the "worrying about the recruiting class in July is meaningless" folk: this is a comment board on a site that specifically covers football recruiting. Aren't we SUPPOSED to be talking about recruiting in July? And August? And September? And October? And...? I'm certainly not here to discuss politics (although I wouldn't mind more discussion on yoga pants).

FWIW-- RSS is "worrying" about it far more than this board.

He didn't say recruiting can't be discussed, he said he wasn't going to worry about it yet.

 

[BHoppy]

If that is the "standard" you wish to compare, then where were we at this same time of year in each of the years you stated above. I realize it isn't where you are its where you end up but there can be a steep hill to climb.

Understand, but a lot of factors affecting recruiting this year, such as Covid and not getting players to visit as soon as before. Just a thought, could be wrong, we will all just have to wait and see.

 

[TruHusker]

Understand, but a lot of factors affecting recruiting this year, such as Covid and not getting players to visit as soon as before. Just a thought, could be wrong, we will all just have to wait and see.

Didn't the NCAA put the same restrictions on every school? Well, expect for Arizona State, they could host recruits.

 

[dinglefritz]

I understand where you are coming from. It makes perfectly good sense to wait it out with a known commodity that has personal connections versus someone up and coming who is mostly loyal to a paycheck.

The problem is, I keep hearing the phrase in various forms - when Frost gets this figured out or when he does, etc. The question is why hasn't he? There isn't what I would consider a high degree of optimism going into this season even given the shear number of returning players. In short, there is a major negative confidence factor towards success.

You have to wonder if Frost really has what it takes and that super special football mind. Few have it, it is indeed rare. Tom was the best of all time and Frost has him to consult which would be where I would be much of the time. Here is my take. Some have been brutally honest with Frost and he knows things haven't improved albeit on paper they appear to have. He is stuck with either falling on the sword himself or starting to bring in a more experienced and talented assistant coaching staff.

If the frustration of this year mirrors the last three, things will get ugly as well they should. The sunshine pumpers eventually have to face reality where some of us have been living the last couple of years to a chorus of boos.

Even if Frost had the most brilliant FB mind which I do not thing he has, he cannot overcome the lack of assistant coaching skills this young group desperately needs.

Somehow and someway the most optimistic fan has to wonder what is going on and why things don't improve. Riley leaving a bare cupboard is not a good answer anymore.

THIS year Riley leaving a crappy roster is not a good answer anymore. If Frost doesn't get to 7 wins or more, then we really have to asks some tough questions. As I'm sure anybody would admit, IF AMart goes down for the year with an injury 7 all bets are off. Gebbia leaving and recruiting Luke put us behind the curve. I think we have a better roster now everywhere except QB. Riley left us Gebbia and that was it at QB. Frost probably should have taken 2 QBs that next year. Taking one that he knew could complete a forward pass would have been a good idea.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

THIS year Riley leaving a crappy roster is not a good answer anymore. If Frost doesn't get to 7 wins or more, then we really have to asks some tough questions. As I'm sure anybody would admit, IF AMart goes down for the year with an injury 7 all bets are off. Gebbia leaving and recruiting Luke put us behind the curve. I think we have a better roster now everywhere except QB. Riley left us Gebbia and that was it at QB. Frost probably should have taken 2 QBs that next year. Taking one that he knew could complete a forward pass would have been a good idea.

O’Brien went through the spring with Frost as well before transferring.

 

[jimmyjoseph]

I see this statement a lot and I was a huge Pelini fan...

But the biggest difference I see is that the B1G in general is MUCH better than it was during Pelini's time. The gap from the bottom dwellers to the mid level, middle of the pack teams has closed. And the strength of the middle of the pack has equalized a bit.

You still have the top tier on both divisions. They were just as good back then with OSU and Wisconsin but we were good enough to give Wiscy a run initially.

We have had some regression, but the B1G has definitely gotten better. It made our problem much worse. Michigan before HB was a dumpster fire, Minnesota before Kill ramp made them decent (then they row boats), Purdue before Brohm was god awful, Indiana was a joke and Illinois was still Illinois but even worse.

most of those programs still aren't very good. and wisconsin is not as good as they used to be.
the B10 west is all mediocrity other than the intermittent years when wisconsin has a complete team.
when you throw below .500 programs like rutgers and nebraska into the league it just gives mediocre teams a couple teams they might actually beat a chance for another win or two. it doesn't mean programs are getting better. it just means there is MORE mediocrity.
Indiana is better but michigan is much worse.