Option attack/Spread

[Jhollenbeck41]

Have a question for the X's and O's people here and maybe if I'm lucky some people that might have good connections to the program and willing to share. I've done research since Frost was hired about the spread offense just to understand better what makes it so good. From what I've read, it sounds like the spread and under center offenses are very similar, just one under center and obviously the other one not. I love the option attack. I'm 26 so I'm old enough to remember the Crouch days but not old enough to fully remember the "glory days". I've obviously seen every video there is on those days though. I loved that drive against Ohio State where we went under center and threw it back to the classic option attack.

My question is this, at any point in the next few years once the personnel is better and developed and all that, is it possible to move back, or would Frost even want to, transition back to like say a 60/40 option/spread attack. Basically use the basic principles of the option offense then branch that off using the spread when it's needed/called for? Would Frost even want to do that?

I only ask that because it seems the longer that he's in the Big 10, it seems the pattern is becoming more apparent that they are slowly showing more I-Formation and option attack. We didn't see it at all last year, saw it against South Alabama, saw it on the third drive against Ohio State, and then one other time in like 4th quarter or whatever.

Final question, hypothetical of course, would something like this even work long term? Using historical evidence, and modern evidence since everyone runs the spread, I believe it would. Plus, not a lot of people have tape on the option anymore I wouldn't think, so it could be hard to defend. But, always goes back to the original concept of Husker Power and Nebraska Football. Be bigger, stronger, faster, and more disciplined than the other team. And even when they know it's coming, still can't stop it because we're better at it.

Thoughts?

 

[otismotis08]

IMHO, the option is something you either fully embrace or not. Timing is everything. A bad pitch is the same as a fumble. Mixing it in periodically is just too risky. That said, a shift back to a predominantly option offense would certainly establish our identity. And I do think it could succeed.

 

[bshirt73]

Haha.....oh boy, you're on the money partner. It sounds like it might be coming around a lot sooner than we thought. You just really don't want to miss the NW game.

 

[bshirt73]

IMHO, the option is something you either fully embrace or not. Timing is everything. A bad pitch is the same as a fumble. Mixing it in periodically is just too risky. That said, a shift back to a predominantly option offense would certainly establish our identity. And I do think it could succeed.

Yes, it certainly would sir! I'm hoping & praying it does come......it's just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Pennsyhusker_rivals246774]

IMHO, the option is something you either fully embrace or not. Timing is everything. A bad pitch is the same as a fumble. Mixing it in periodically is just too risky. That said, a shift back to a predominantly option offense would certainly establish our identity. And I do think it could succeed.

Not even Osborne’s offense was “predominantly” an option offense. The option was an integral part of what was a much larger offensive package.
And our current offense already has “option” elements.
If your worry is with pitchouts on pure options, that is just something that comes with practice.

 

[bshirt73]

Not even Osborne’s offense was “predominantly” an option offense. The option was an integral part of what was a much larger offensive package.
And our current offense already has “option” elements.
If your worry is with pitchouts on pure options, that is just something that comes with practice.

Well, SF was a master of option pitches imo. Beautiful pitches from him every time that I recall.....

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

IMHO, the option is something you either fully embrace or not. Timing is everything. A bad pitch is the same as a fumble. Mixing it in periodically is just too risky. That said, a shift back to a predominantly option offense would certainly establish our identity. And I do think it could succeed.

Ya know I guess I never really thought of it while I was growing up through the Callahan and Pelini years, but now that I'm older, with what Frost said in his introductory presser, Osborne that "formula" figured out, and that every school has that one formula that works. Is coming full circle again back to the option offense Nebraska's identity? Sure seems like it was for a long, long time. Everything takes reps in practice, but it looked so natural on Saturday even though we haven't really seen that kind of offense in a long time, atleast I haven't. For the record, I think Nebraska is the only place that kind of offense could succeed at a high level again.

 

[cubsker_rivals142943]

we're not going to be an option team. run it a few times a game, sure, but no, we're not running TO's offense.

 

[redfanusa]

College coaches only get so much practice time with the players. I think they have to choose between doing a few things very well, or doing a lot of things poorly. Whenever coaches try to out-scheme their opponents with eight pound playbooks, it only seems to result in a mistake-prone product on the field.

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

we're not going to be an option team. run it a few times a game, sure, but no, we're not running TO's offense.

So like, 70/30 spread then?

 

[otismotis08]

The power option game would restore our identity. As a fan, I'm sick and tired of looking like any other mediocre football program. That said, HCSF knows the option game as well as anyone. I'm sure he'll use it if he sees advantages.

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

Also want to point something else out, for the record,I'm 100% behind whatever Frost wants to do offensively. I believe this thing will be humming once he gets all his pieces here. Just loved seeing the option and I-Formation broken out again and so just spit ballin here and seeing if anyone knew future plans or X's and O's or whatever.

 

[cubsker_rivals142943]

So like, 70/30 spread then?

30 probably about the highest number possible.

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

30 probably about the highest number possible.

Respectable. Is that based on opponent, how the game is going, or how the defense is lined up?

 

[DudznSudz]

Guys, you know, why did we ever move away from that style of football in the first place back in 2003 or whatever? I've heard from older fans it was all about how "We couldn't keep running it, we had to update to change with defenses," etc, but I mean...what was happening back then that made us think that, and why would it work now?

 

[SRURock24]

Yes, it certainly would sir! I'm hoping & praying it does come......it's just what the doctor ordered.

It would IMO be harder to run that offense in today’s game simply because you don’t see it used in HS that much anymore. The Tommie Frazier, Jamel Holieway type quarterbacks aren’t as prevalent anymore.

 

[GeorgeFlippin]

Not even Osborne’s offense was “predominantly” an option offense. The option was an integral part of what was a much larger offensive package.
And our current offense already has “option” elements.
If your worry is with pitchouts on pure options, that is just something that comes with practice.

I remember Terry Donahue during the 1998 Orange Bowl broadcast talking about all the different formations that Osborne had and the variety of plays within those formations, pretty much said it gets to a point where it stresses the defense to the breaking point.

That type of offense would so work against today’s mostly watered down defenses. And maybe someday, Nebraska will have a ferocious defense again, hopefully before I die!

 

[Ewooc]

Have a question for the X's and O's people here and maybe if I'm lucky some people that might have good connections to the program and willing to share. I've done research since Frost was hired about the spread offense just to understand better what makes it so good. From what I've read, it sounds like the spread and under center offenses are very similar, just one under center and obviously the other one not. I love the option attack. I'm 26 so I'm old enough to remember the Crouch days but not old enough to fully remember the "glory days". I've obviously seen every video there is on those days though. I loved that drive against Ohio State where we went under center and threw it back to the classic option attack.

My question is this, at any point in the next few years once the personnel is better and developed and all that, is it possible to move back, or would Frost even want to, transition back to like say a 60/40 option/spread attack. Basically use the basic principles of the option offense then branch that off using the spread when it's needed/called for? Would Frost even want to do that?

I only ask that because it seems the longer that he's in the Big 10, it seems the pattern is becoming more apparent that they are slowly showing more I-Formation and option attack. We didn't see it at all last year, saw it against South Alabama, saw it on the third drive against Ohio State, and then one other time in like 4th quarter or whatever.

Final question, hypothetical of course, would something like this even work long term? Using historical evidence, and modern evidence since everyone runs the spread, I believe it would. Plus, not a lot of people have tape on the option anymore I wouldn't think, so it could be hard to defend. But, always goes back to the original concept of Husker Power and Nebraska Football. Be bigger, stronger, faster, and more disciplined than the other team. And even when they know it's coming, still can't stop it because we're better at it.

Thoughts?

He has always said he wanted to combine the speed and spread of Oregon and the Husker Power of Nebraska. I don't see him going away from spread. I think that is going to be his bread and butter. Another poster brought up a good point as well. Since very few schools are using the option, if we did decide to transition to it more full time we would have the pick of the best recruits in the country who run it.

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

Guys, you know, why did we ever move away from that style of football in the first place back in 2003 or whatever? I've heard from older fans it was all about how "We couldn't keep running it, we had to update to change with defenses," etc, but I mean...what was happening back then that made us think that, and why would it work now?

2 answers to that, 1. Bill Callahan wasn't an option guy, so that wasn't going to happen. 2. Why would it work now? The same reason it worked back then. Not many are going to like my answer I don't think, but I also don't think it's complicated. Bigger, stronger, faster, and execute better than anyone else does. I believe it's as simple as that. Oh, and have the right personnel to run what you want.

 

[cubsker_rivals142943]

Respectable. Is that based on opponent, how the game is going, or how the defense is lined up?

All of the above, I would imagine. Would think we are less likely to run it against Wisconsin than we are against purdue.

 

[oldjar07]

You can run the option out of spread sets. The opposite of the spread is condensed formations which have their advantages as well. In condensed formations it's easier to cause confusion for the defense on run and pass assignments. Using a condensed formation can create a numbers advantage in the run game with more blockers at the point of attack and also can be very effective in the play action game. The spread's main advantage is it usually causes the defense to spread out and cover more of the field. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

[HuskerLLM]

Guys, you know, why did we ever move away from that style of football in the first place back in 2003 or whatever? I've heard from older fans it was all about how "We couldn't keep running it, we had to update to change with defenses," etc, but I mean...what was happening back then that made us think that, and why would it work now?

It was a Stevie P thing, HE wanted to change the program and "update" to a "modern" offense...the change can be laid at his feet

On a secondary note, Frank didn't call plays as an OC, TO did, and the offense was his entire creation that has lead to The Pistol and Urbs offense today---Frank tried to call plays as a HC but never had the feel that Dr Tom had and couldn't set the table like TO did

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

All of the above, I would imagine. Would think we are less likely to run it against Wisconsin than we are against purdue.

Do you think it'd get to a point where we try to show our pride a little bit and run it against Wisconsin? That could be some great football here in a few years down the line.

 

[dand84]

My question is this, at any point in the next few years once the personnel is better and developed and all that, is it possible to move back, or would Frost even want to, transition back to like say a 60/40 option/spread attack. Basically use the basic principles of the option offense then branch that off using the spread when it's needed/called for? Would Frost even want to do that?

Depends on what you mean by option I guess. In some ways, at the end of the day, T.O. and his philosophy of option attacks have won for the last 25 years. Most successful teams run option-based attacks now with dual threat QBs. They simply incorporate the RPO much more.

The formations and blocking schemes have changed as well as the type of players you have running them. I'd argue, however, that few people actually miss the option, they miss the Husker power running game characterized more by our inside traps and ISO plays.

T.O.'s offenses evolved a lot over his career. He was always trying new schemes and formations including shotgun, double wing, etc.

 

[TheBeav815]

If the option alone is the answer, ask yourself why Georgia Tech hasn't won anything of significance after all these years running it.

 

[barney44]

Not even Osborne’s offense was “predominantly” an option offense. The option was an integral part of what was a much larger offensive package.
And our current offense already has “option” elements.
If your worry is with pitchouts on pure options, that is just something that comes with practice.

Yeah there various ways to run the option out of spread sets. Speed option is probably the most common while some of those strange triple options arent quite as popular but you do see them from time to time. We’re not really going to see a healthy dose of that stuff for the simple fack that we don’t have the basics down. If we can’t run inside/outside zone plays, counters, etc. with any success then we’re not going to survive on option plays (excluding zone read option plays).

Osborne was no different in his offense. Obviously we would throw quite a bit of the option at opponets under TO but dives, ISO’s, counters (the world can thank Osborne for the birth of this beauty), power was pretty much the core of his offense. Three yards and a cloud of dust they say but Osborne spruced it up with a running QB and an option game.

We need bread and butter to work or nothing will work for the long haul. Unfortunately I think we have a little waiting to do while they get things rolling in Lincoln.

 

[otismotis08]

Welp, if it's not the option then what is our identity? Blue collar, lunch pail totting corn-fed, good ole boys with bigger hearts than anyone else? I'm serious. SAY IT!!!!

 

[jlb321_rivals110621]

???????

 

[Crazyhole]

The only issue with blending the two offenses will be finding receivers and a running back who can do both. Mills is that kind of back and it looks like wandale could be the kind of guy who could go back and forth between wingback and deep back, but other than those 2 we just don't have the personnel. It could only be effective if we can keep the same guys on the field so the defense couldn't sub-in. It wouldn't be hard for DCs to just pay attention to when we sent in our power package and respond.

Think of it this way: frost doesn't use a fullback because typically a guy who plays fullback can't shift into a deep back or slot position. The same thing would apply to our receivers if we want to go back and forth between his style of spread and Osborne's power-option.

 

[bshirt73]

The only issue with blending the two offenses will be finding receivers and a running back who can do both. Mills is that kind of back and it looks like wandale could be the kind of guy who could go back and forth between wingback and deep back, but other than those 2 we just don't have the personnel. It could only be effective if we can keep the same guys on the field so the defense couldn't sub-in. It wouldn't be hard for DCs to just pay attention to when we sent in our power package and respond.

Think of it this way: frost doesn't use a fullback because typically a guy who plays fullback can't shift into a deep back or slot position. The same thing would apply to our receivers if we want to go back and forth between his style of spread and Osborne's power-option.

Howdy Crazy! Good to see you partner.....I hope things are going your way.

I see your point and it's a valid one. But as Penny and others here have mentioned there's a damn good chance HCSF is bringing us to a more smashmouth running game. Full tilt boogie for the OLine & TEs. It'll be interesting to see how he merges the current offense with that.

Sure, it won't be unstoppable for a good while "but" when it does come around (especially our OLine).....we're both going to love it! We'll then slam down 30 beers and re-watch our games about 480 times each week.

Nothing is too good for us!!

 

[redwine65]

the key about the option is that there is an option.
when buck and dan fumbled a lot, it turned into crouch left crouch right..it got crouch the heismen...but left us one dimensional for the buffs and miami...and later under lord, penn state, etc..so solich's option was not dr. toms option...solich's option was a optionless option.

 

[bshirt73]

the key about the option is that there is an option.
when buck and dan fumbled a lot, it turned into crouch left crouch right..it got crouch the heismen...but left us one dimensional for the buffs and miami...and later under lord, penn state, etc..so solich's option was not dr. toms option...solich's option was a optionless option.

Yeah, Frank sucked so badly winning a conference championship & playing in the NC game. So glad we fired him to bring in winning machines Clownahan & Smiling Mike!

 

[huskerbaseball13]

Yeah, Frank sucked so badly winning a conference championship & playing in the NC game. So glad we fired him to bring in winning machines Clownahan & Smiling Mike!

The guy took over a program that won 3 National titles in 4 years and ended up winning the North division once in six years.

Recruiting took a turn for the worse. The hires after him were not good...but that doesn’t mean Solich didn’t start the downturn.

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

H

The only issue with blending the two offenses will be finding receivers and a running back who can do both. Mills is that kind of back and it looks like wandale could be the kind of guy who could go back and forth between wingback and deep back, but other than those 2 we just don't have the personnel. It could only be effective if we can keep the same guys on the field so the defense couldn't sub-in. It wouldn't be hard for DCs to just pay attention to when we sent in our power package and respond.

Think of it this way: frost doesn't use a fullback because typically a guy who plays fullback can't shift into a deep back or slot position. The same thing would apply to our receivers if we want to go back and forth between his style of spread and Osborne's power-option.

Honestly that does make sense, personnel wise, but I'm going to play devil's advocate just for a minute. Back in the day, 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, whatever, we line up in the I, defense knows what's coming. Pound the rock. 1st down, they're not stopping us. So I guess that's my devil's advocate. I understand 2 packages is probably not the most efficient thing in the world, but if the opponent can't stop us because we're that good at executing it, and we're developed enough, then does it really matter? Food for thought.

 

[Crazyhole]

Howdy Crazy! Good to see you partner.....I hope things are going your way.

I see your point and it's a valid one. But as Penny and others here have mentioned there's a damn good chance HCSF is bringing us to a more smashmouth running game. Full tilt boogie for the OLine & TEs. It'll be interesting to see how he merges the current offense with that.

Sure, it won't be unstoppable for a good while "but" when it does come around (especially our OLine).....we're both going to love it! We'll then slam down 30 beers and re-watch our games about 480 times each week.

Nothing is too good for us!!

Are you using a different username? Sorry but I can't seem to place who you are right now.

 

[Crazyhole]

H

Honestly that does make sense, personnel wise, but I'm going to play devil's advocate just for a minute. Back in the day, 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, whatever, we line up in the I, defense knows what's coming. Pound the rock. 1st down, they're not stopping us. So I guess that's my devil's advocate. I understand 2 packages is probably not the most efficient thing in the world, but if the opponent can't stop us because we're that good at executing it, and we're developed enough, then does it really matter? Food for thought.

I have a feeling that Hickman playing this week might give us a clue on what this is going to look like in the future. Wandale goes back and forth on positions, mills all of a sudden lined up at fullback, Washington goes between deep-back and split....if Hickman lines up both at TE and split then that will say a lot on whether frost was serious about blending Osborne and Kelly's offenses.

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

I have a feeling that Hickman playing this week might give us a clue on what this is going to look like in the future. Wandale goes back and forth on positions, mills all of a sudden lined up at fullback, Washington goes between deep-back and split....if Hickman lines up both at TE and split then that will say a lot on whether frost was serious about blending Osborne and Kelly's offenses.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they say Hickman was only playing special teams this week to get his feet wet?

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

I have a feeling that Hickman playing this week might give us a clue on what this is going to look like in the future. Wandale goes back and forth on positions, mills all of a sudden lined up at fullback, Washington goes between deep-back and split....if Hickman lines up both at TE and split then that will say a lot on whether frost was serious about blending Osborne and Kelly's offenses.

I need to watch some X's and O's to brush up on my position knowledge. I know and understand basic offensive position names but not really spread position terminology.

 

[bshirt73]

The guy took over a program that won 3 National titles in 4 years and ended up winning the North division once in six years.

Recruiting took a turn for the worse. The hires after him were not good...but that doesn’t mean Solich didn’t start the downturn.

Well, TO took over the NU program that got two NCs in the previous three years and it then took TO 22 years to get another NC. So, by your standards TO sucked soooo badly.

So, pray tell.....how many NC games did Clownahan & Smiling Mike get us? How many conference championships did they get us???

Oh yeah, thank God we fired Frank to bring in the superb Callahan. He gave us our 1st losing season in over 40 years. And even better, he gave us "two" losing seasons in just four years. Awesome......

 

[bshirt73]

Are you using a different username? Sorry but I can't seem to place who you are right now.

Heh, maybe it's my mistake. There's a crazy on BHF (I'm bshirt there) that I assumed was you. Sorry to bother you sir if I'm wrong!