Please tell the rest of us what else you've learned from your "Coaching Eight Year Old Recreational Baseball For Dummies" book.
Because Mike Bianco can't help himself...
- Thread starter MSUDC11
- Start date
Please tell the rest of us what else you've learned from your "Coaching Eight Year Old Recreational Baseball For Dummies" book.
Ole Miss is in must-win territory. That's why they're pitching the guy. And it's not a crazy ask for him to come back on four days rest. The term "days rest" is a misnomer anyway. Most of these guys throw bullpens and side sessions between starts. It's not uncommon for guys to throw 80 pitches in the bullpen during their "days rest".
ETA: Goat, looks like you missed one. Make sure you log into all your alter accounts and downvote this one too.
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They are used to it. But again, just the rest part isn't so bad, it's also the 115-118-112 numbers to go with it. Pitch count guidelines are very clear, you need at least 5 days rest here. It's a risk, and the reason that we are talking about it, is because people understand that risk. But whatever man, Nikhazy has a rubber arm, so maybe it's OK.
But considering they JUST HAD A FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK GO DOWN WITH TOMMY JOHN, you know, you might want to be conservative.
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It hurt a LOT. Hoglund wasn't getting much run support early in the year, but he was still really, really good. If we had a healthy Hoglund and Nikhazy then I would've felt pretty decent about our chances against anyone in a 3 game series. We might have gotten beat, but we would've had a legitimate chance. It also killed our already very minimal bullpen depth. Diamond's "stuff" was playing much better out of the pen and he was a guy that you could go to in the 3rd or 4th if someone like McDaniel was struggling and him bridge the gap to Broadway. Now he's got to start for us, because we don't have any better options. Right now I don't think we can make it out of a regional unless we play it really clean and go 3-0. If we get into the loser's bracket, we aren't making it out. And really our only hope in a Super will be Doug HAS to win, no question. And then we are going to just have to outslug a team in Game 2 or 3, and win a 10-8 type game. Not good odds, considering we will likely be matched up against a team like MSU, Arizona, etc. I hope we get matched up against Notre Dame's Regional. There's no way they're as good as any of the SEC national seeds. I don't think they even have a top 25 win.
My only thoughts is regardless of appropriate rest or not, if Ole Miss does not think they can beat Auburn with their number 2, then how do they think they will beat Vanderbilt or any of the other teams they will face in this tourney without Nikhazy pitching against them all? You may win today, but guaranteed an 0-2 trip through the tourney afterwards.
This is correct. Look, the original post isn't wrong. This is par for the course for Bianco, and no one is surprised. I could've told y'all Saturday night when we realized we were playing on Tuesday that Nikhazy would start that game. And I do agree that Bianco rides is best arms pretty hard. And I also agree that outside looking in this probably looks like a desperate move. And, heck, maybe it is? But it's just what Bianco does. It's why he will throw Nikhazy against the 4 seed in our regional and I'll lose my mind.
But, like Drebin said, this is his normal bullpen day anyways. So, while I would've preferred him to hold Nikhazy until Wednesday, we have to get to Wednesday first. So, if he only throws him 70-80 pitches, it's no big deal. Now, if he throws 115 again, then that's definitely a desperation move and he will rightfully be questioned over it.
These games also have value to Ole Miss. Our national seed dream has likely sailed. We screwed that up on Sunday in Starkville and Saturday (Game 3) in College Station. If we won the SEC Tournament we might, MIGHT squeak in as the 8 seed, due to us having the 2nd most elite wins in the country, and of course we'd have added 3-4 more through the tournament.. but, does anyone, including the most biased Ole Miss fan think there's any chance of us making it from Tuesday to Sunday in this murderer's row with this pitching staff? HELLLLL NO. But, I do get why this is a really important game for us tonight.. if we lose it, we likely find ourselves in the 13-14 seed. If we can win tonight, and scrape another win together and leave on Friday at 2-2, with one more quality win, then we are probably in that 11-12 range. That can absolutely matter. So, I get it, and with it being his normal bullpen today, I can follow the logic. Just don't overuse him, because while winning tonight is important, it's not nearly as important than having a fresh and healthy Doug Nikhazy and Taylor Broadway for our Regional.
We’ll probably lose Wednesday and Thursday (if we even win tonight), you’re right. But we dang sure can’t win them if we don’t get there. And you might get a quality start out of Diamond and/or McDaniel, and that would be huge for their psyche’ going into the postseason, as both are struggling a little. These games are basically meaningless for Arkansas, Vandy, Tennessee and you guys. But they could have a significant impact on what our regional field looks like and the super we are matched up against. Plus, we don’t really want to limp into the postseason on the heels of a 13-2 drubbing by Georgia and a loss to Auburn. At least not if we can help it.
Because this isn't MLB? How is that such an absurd idea to understand? These guys aren't being paid, and pitching abuse is a big deal in college right now whether people want to listen or not. Bianco is at the forefront of that, because I'm sure he's just got a dumb, old school mentality about it. He even said the other day that kids are throwing harder but he just wants to keep treating them like he did 20 years ago. Then they hide behind 'toughness' or something.
But it's all good, a good many people just aren't going to listen. I'm just glad State has a coach that actually gets it.
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Because he wants to justify a sketchy use of a pitcher.
The idea of “he’s going to have to do it in the big leagues” is very dumb. In the big leagues he will be training to do it.
Difference in MLB and college
I don't know much about pitch counts but comparing MLB pitch count/rest standards to college is apples to oranges. MLB teams manage starters through a 162-game season playing 5-6 games every week. College is a 50-55 game schedule playing 3 meaningful games a week and starters pitch once every 7 days. Way more rest and way less total games in college so not unreasonable to have higher pitch counts. That is countered by less physical maturity and natural limitations on the number of pitches an arm can take. Still, the 100-pitch count standard in MLB can be stretched some in college.
I don't know much about pitch counts but comparing MLB pitch count/rest standards to college is apples to oranges. MLB teams manage starters through a 162-game season playing 5-6 games every week. College is a 50-55 game schedule playing 3 meaningful games a week and starters pitch once every 7 days. Way more rest and way less total games in college so not unreasonable to have higher pitch counts. That is countered by less physical maturity and natural limitations on the number of pitches an arm can take. Still, the 100-pitch count standard in MLB can be stretched some in college.
This is why I think he's doing it. If you can be a 11-12 seed and match up against Arizona or Notre Dame, that's a lot better draw to get to Omaha than 15-16 seed matched up in a Super with Arky or Vandy.
He will have to do it in the minors too. It just doesnt seem sketchy to me in this instance. I will agree if he throws another 115 but not if he throws 100 or less. If you want to talk about Mike's use of pitchers in the past I'm sure we would find much to agree on. I am not an expert on training techniques of colleges, minors, and majors, but I will venture the assumption that Doug is 'trained' enough to throw on four days.
I said he would be expected to do it on less rest in the MLB, and my World Series examples were in response to the question if it ever does happen on less rest in the MLB (that was a different post so it was unclear). I am not comparing a college junior to Curt Schilling. I am however comparing him to a AA pitcher in terms of ability and the coaches, trainers, and facilities around him are comparable to the minors too. If one of the better college programs isnt comparable to what you can expect from the minors, what is? I should've made that clearer, however, my apologies. The post I was responding to said MLB pitchers dont pitch on four days rest and that is false but I went a bit overboard with my examples.
I said he would be expected to do it on less rest in the MLB, and my World Series examples were in response to the question if it ever does happen on less rest in the MLB (that was a different post so it was unclear). I am not comparing a college junior to Curt Schilling. I am however comparing him to a AA pitcher in terms of ability and the coaches, trainers, and facilities around him are comparable to the minors too. If one of the better college programs isnt comparable to what you can expect from the minors, what is? I should've made that clearer, however, my apologies. The post I was responding to said MLB pitchers dont pitch on four days rest and that is false but I went a bit overboard with my examples.
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FWIW: Nikhazy has thrown 344 pitches in the last 17 days. And is starting a game tonight. How many other pitchers in the SEC have done that this year? Genuinely curious.
100%
Winning this game gives us, at minimum, two more cracks at quality wins. Depending on how the committee ultimately evaluates things, that could be a HUGE deal for Ole Miss, as they have as many or more quality wins than anyone in the country, sans Arkansas. Our problem is losing to ****** SEC teams. We have held our own against the good ones, especially given our schedule and the injuries.
I was completely against throwing Nikhazy in this game two days ago.. but realizing the situation and the fact that it’s his bullpen day, anyways, has changed my mind. I get it. Just don’t overdo it.
I would guess none, other than possibly Kopps, although I doubt it.
But, and yes I’m very biased and trying to defend something I don’t even really agree with.. once you factor in the fact that he and most other weekend starters would normally throw a 60-80 pitch bullpen session today or tomorrow, that number looks a lot different for everyone. I also imagine if you look at that stat for a lot of pitchers after this tournament, it won’t seem as outrageous. Especially teams like Florida and South Carolina who are in very comparable spots to Ole Miss, postseason wise. Or someone like Alabama who’s fighting for a berth.
Obviously Lemonis isn’t going to do something like that, because he doesn’t have to. MSU’s national seed is signed, sealed and delivered. It’s much easier to manage from that spot, no doubt.
Update - Looks like MLB pitchers rest guidance calls for 5 days rest.
https://www.mlb.com/pitch-smart/pitching-guidelines
https://www.mlb.com/pitch-smart/pitching-guidelines
Kopps has thrown 287 pitches in the last 18 days. And he's not starting a game tonight. But yes, it is different for starters. You could argue the usage of Kopps as a reliever is heavier than the usage of Nikhazy as a starter, despite Kopps throwing fewer pitches: averaging ~75 pitches in 1.8 appearances per weekend.
It's the same garbage you posted the other day and said "was from MLB." Funny since no MLB team follows that.
Of course, if you read that chart, you would see that 19-22 year olds are good for 81-105 pitches at four days rest. That is, if you put stock in that sort of thing. Since it goes against your argument on Nikhazy, I'm surprised at your post. Actually I'm not, because you really are that dumb.
In any case, you need to figure out whether this chart is good or bad. If it's all you say it is, then Nikhazy should be good for 100 pitches today on four days rest, and all the rest of your stupid takes in this thread are just that. While you decide which argument to pick, I'm just over here enjoying your self-own.
But I was wrong by saying MLB pitchers don’t pitch on 4 days rest. The example I got telling me I was wrong was from 2001. 20 years ago. **** has changed
From this same thread:
Give it up dude, it's just boring at this point.
10 pitches when fatigued.
I will meet you in the middle though. Nikhazy isn't a big velocity guy is he? That can buy him some extension I suppose.
Stop moving the goalposts.
Why aren't you counting the five pitches he throws between every inning? Or the 40 he threw in the bullpen to warm up? Or the 80 he threw between starts? And how do you know he was fatigued? Just because he exceeded 100 pitches, he's automatically fatigued? I mean, do you even know the first damn thing about strength and conditioning?
Hopefully at some point you will start to see how silly you are being. Pitch counts are fine for guard rails. But a specific number shouldn't be applied generically to everyone. There are many different variables at play. Mike Bianco knows a helluva lot more about what Nikhazy is capable of than you and your theoretical nonsense.
I believe most work on 5 days rest. I can tell you that is at least what the Cardinals do. There has not been a pitcher make a start on 4 days rest this year. There are more off days sprinkled in the schedule than what used to be. Rarely does a pitcher need to have a 4 day rest.
But all of that is irrelevant to the actual topic. Your pitcher is not a MLB pitcher. It’s not an apples to apples comparison. It reeks of a desperation move by Bianco. And like I said earlier, it’s why Bianco always fizzles out in the postseason. He misses the forest for the trees.
I never said he was an MLB pitcher, never compared him to MLB pitchers, only said that in the majors he would be expected to go on less than four days rest (although that was admittedly under the assumption he would be an MLB ace and that he would pitch in games that matter, which I should have specified). The Cardinals are one of a few teams using a six man rotation. It is not the norm. Even then I'm pretty sure they started Kim on four days rest a couple weeks back albeit on very limited innings. I did respond to someone's question if MLB pitchers ever threw on less than 4 when I responded to your post, that's where the WS examples came from, my apologies.
Because including bullpens doesn’t fit the narrative that Bianco is a demon arm ruiner
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