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Toppin and Attitude

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sluggercatfan

Heisman
Aug 17, 2004
35,953
29,631
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TheJuddDome said:
Just read the story about Toppin admitting he pouted after getting scolded.
If that’s the mental fortitude of these guys, that explains so much. No wonder this team is such crap. And you’ve got a coach that let’s them get away with it. This is dysfunction to the max. WTLF🤯🤯🤯
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All kids are like that today. You can't hurt their little feelings. May scar them for life.
 
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RalphDaltonFan

Heisman
Apr 3, 2002
60,267
41,763
113
shaudyshaud said:
A player pouring after being scolded is probably normal on every team especially when the team has been disappointing
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Well said. Most fans would be surprised how players/coaches interact. Older you are, you'd be very surprised by the tone/what is said. Several things can be correct but one thing I'll say is when Calipari keeps saying he's "tired", don't doubt this crap is a big reason as to why.

That said, one of Cal's weaknesses lately is he doesn't read the team he's coaching. This group isn't one you can assume they can handle success. Proven they can't over course of season. So anything that is/could be labeled a distraction, eliminate. Instead of talking up Vanderbilt leading into the game, you get a love letter to Sahvir Wheeler and everything was about Wheeler going into the damn game and that guy doesn't give 2 ***** about this program. Since he left the team, the fight returned. Was it great/perfect basketball? No. But it was a group that fought and salvaged a likely NCAA bid. But everything was "Sahvir" and personally I'm to the point, rather lose next 3 games then ever see that bloated hobbit play another game at Kentucky. Want to talk about his procedure? Timing of when he chose to do it was a sign of what he thinks of the program and Cal but there's Cal talking him up.

Read the room or leave it.
 
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SemperFiCat

Heisman
Mar 2, 2009
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The talk of mental health concerns and taking away cell phones told me the mental toughness of this bunch (and you could argue the generation in general). I want dudes that use it as fuel, not self affirmation. Give me dawgs. Fighting hole kinda guys. You can def see differences in the mentalities of certain teams, and it reflects in games.
 
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Cowtown Cat

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
24,286
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ralphdaltonfan said:
Well said. Most fans would be surprised how players/coaches interact. Older you are, you'd be very surprised by the tone/what is said. Several things can be correct but one thing I'll say is when Calipari keeps saying he's "tired", don't doubt this crap is a big reason as to why.

That said, one of Cal's weaknesses lately is he doesn't read the team he's coaching. This group isn't one you can assume they can handle success. Proven they can't over course of season. So anything that is/could be labeled a distraction, eliminate. Instead of talking up Vanderbilt leading into the game, you get a love letter to Sahvir Wheeler and everything was about Wheeler going into the damn game and that guy doesn't give 2 ***** about this program. Since he left the team, the fight returned. Was it great/perfect basketball? No. But it was a group that fought and salvaged a likely NCAA bid. But everything was "Sahvir" and personally I'm to the point, rather lose next 3 games then ever see that bloated hobbit play another game at Kentucky. Want to talk about his procedure? Timing of when he chose to do it was a sign of what he thinks of the program and Cal but there's Cal talking him up.

Read the room or leave it.
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Damn right! Just read earlier he had a procedure done on his tailbone. Lmao! He will “be out” two or three weeks. How convenient. Dude’s a little ***** how he’s acted this season IMHO. **** whoever doesn’t like it. No doubt in my mind he was a locker room cancer. Wheeler doesn’t give a flying **** about the Kentucky program, so it’s whatever.
 
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Rockford

Rockford

Heisman
Jun 28, 2001
23,904
51,808
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If Toppin has this type of attitude at this point of his career…….. well, his basketball future does not look bright.

It’s gonna be a lot tougher where he’s going.
 
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RalphDaltonFan

Heisman
Apr 3, 2002
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Cowtown Cat said:
Damn right! Just read earlier he had a procedure done on his tailbone. Lmao! He will “be out” two or three weeks. How convenient. Dude’s a little ***** how he’s acted this season IMHO. **** whoever doesn’t like it. Wheeler doesn’t give a flying **** about the Kentucky program, so it’s whatever.
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Said it a few weeks ago and stand by it. Don't care what Wheeler does/doesn't do. Is he needed? Sure, team could use a backup PG. The fact someone this limited as a player views his role as more than that is laughable but also why the program has been in a downward trend for some time now. Wouldn't want him to reinjure his tailbone sitting on the bench in Nashville and wherever they are sent for NCAA's. Let him relax in the comfort of wherever he chooses; be it Lexington or back in Houston.
 
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WeWant9

Heisman
Dec 18, 2013
6,966
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ralphdaltonfan said:
Well said. Most fans would be surprised how players/coaches interact. Older you are, you'd be very surprised by the tone/what is said. Several things can be correct but one thing I'll say is when Calipari keeps saying he's "tired", don't doubt this crap is a big reason as to why.

That said, one of Cal's weaknesses lately is he doesn't read the team he's coaching. This group isn't one you can assume they can handle success. Proven they can't over course of season. So anything that is/could be labeled a distraction, eliminate. Instead of talking up Vanderbilt leading into the game, you get a love letter to Sahvir Wheeler and everything was about Wheeler going into the damn game and that guy doesn't give 2 ***** about this program. Since he left the team, the fight returned. Was it great/perfect basketball? No. But it was a group that fought and salvaged a likely NCAA bid. But everything was "Sahvir" and personally I'm to the point, rather lose next 3 games then ever see that bloated hobbit play another game at Kentucky. Want to talk about his procedure? Timing of when he chose to do it was a sign of what he thinks of the program and Cal but there's Cal talking him up.

Read the room or leave it.
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One of the things that has confused me about Cal, in the recent years, is his inability to read the room. When he first came to UK, the man had his pulse on BBN and knew the right things to say/do to get us all fired up. He also knew the buttons to push for the players to get them ready for March.

I don’t know, maybe it was Covid, but he has been off his game by miles. Laughing stuff off, talking about wanting to play with his dogs, skipping media because he is tired, or belittling the fans.

I’ve said it before, but the Cal who came here over 10 years ago would absolutely laugh in the face of this current Cal.

Part of me thinks Cal was always considered the bad guy and an outcast in the college bball world; and maybe he thinks trying to push this good guy/carefree image will help repair it. In reality, it’s just ruining his own legacy.
 
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track42

Heisman
Feb 18, 2017
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LineSkiCat14 said:
I guess it depends on what he did after. It's perfectly normal for a 20 year old to get pissed after an incident like this. It's how you grow from it that matters, and if it becomes a trend.
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He's a 22 year old senior who plans on being in the NBA next season.
 
LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

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track42 said:
He's a 22 year old senior who plans on being in the NBA next season.
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The future star of the NBA just beat up a 17-year old and flashed his gun at him.

22 is still 22. I don't expect every one of them to just take on hardships and letdowns with perfect demeanor.
 
R

RalphDaltonFan

Heisman
Apr 3, 2002
60,267
41,763
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WeWant9 said:
One of the things that has confused me about Cal, in the recent years, is his inability to read the room. When he first came to UK, the man had his pulse on BBN and knew the right things to say/do to get us all fired up. He also knew the buttons to push for the players to get them ready for March.

I don’t know, maybe it was Covid, but he has been off his game by miles. Laughing stuff off, talking about wanting to play with his dogs, skipping media because a he is tired, or belittling the fans.

I’ve said it before, but the Cal who came here over 10 years ago would absolutely laugh in the face of this current Cal.

Part of me thinks Cal was always considered the bad guy and an outcast in the college bball world; and maybe he thinks trying to push this good guy/carefree image will help repair it. In reality, it’s just ruining his own legacy.
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He was hungry to get that validation to get into the HOF--a National Title. One thing I'm leery of with coaches as they age is the want to fight/compete. It's an industry where you better always have that desire to be the best. It's a lot easier to climb to the top then it is to stay there, kick everyone's *** coming to knock you off. You better embrace and enjoy it and we've seen the guy who lusted for this job turn into a guy who has literally said these things at some point since the '15 season ended with a team who had no business losing:

"It's okay. I told them to pretend they won. We'll be fine. It's not a loss, it's learning and we'll treat it like we won".

"We're fine....I've been doing this for (insert years) and it's all about March, so we'll be good".

"Give full credit to (insert team). I was down some guys but we had enough, but we're fine...just need to build off this and treat it like a win".

"You fans need to......" what follows is a lecture to the fans how they are stupid and he's smarter than everyone and it's after a win where they won big a margin more for what opponent was going through and not his team playing high level, and then media buys in with Swaggy Cal and they go into a tailspin.

The one I get more upset about than most is "This guy is way better than I expected" about a player that was recruited/signed to play for him. How do you not know what you are getting? I'd argue this is the biggest reason the program has been downwardly trending. If you don't care to be involved in recruiting and details of the players you recruit, then it's time to hang it up.
 
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track42

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LineSkiCat14 said:
The future star of the NBA just beat up a 17-year old and flashed his gun at him.

22 is still 22. I don't expect every one of them to just take on hardships and letdowns with perfect demeanor.
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You are following the right team then.One guy in Wheeler quit and basically gave Cal a big FU on senior night,Toppin plays when he's in the mood,Wallace let us know in preseason he's ready to get the hell out of here.Cal really built himself some team.
 
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LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

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track42 said:
You are following the right team then.One guy in Wheeler quit and basically gave Cal a big FU on senior night,Toppin plays when he's in the mood,Wallace let us know in preseason he's ready to get the hell out of here.Cal really built himself some team.
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You guys said Wheeler quit when he got benched.. yet he didn't quit, he played a reserve role, cheered on the team.. and everyone just pretended they didn't say it.

Can we at least wait until Wheeler ACTUALLY quits for non-medical reasons?
 
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SemperFiCat

Heisman
Mar 2, 2009
14,566
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LineSkiCat14 said:
The future star of the NBA just beat up a 17-year old and flashed his gun at him.

22 is still 22. I don't expect every one of them to just take on hardships and letdowns with perfect demeanor.
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Hate to be the grumpy old vet, but at 22, I was married, with a kid, and deployed to an active war zone. With guys younger than Toppin. The difference? We didn't act like itches by pouting and talking about internet meanies and mental health. I'm sorry, but at 22, you can either sack up or you don't. Sick of the age argument.
 
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track42

Heisman
Feb 18, 2017
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LineSkiCat14 said:
You guys said Wheeler quit when he got benched.. yet he didn't quit, he played a reserve role, cheered on the team.. and everyone just pretended they didn't say it.

Can we at least wait until Wheeler ACTUALLY quits for non-medical reasons?
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Cheered on the team?Did I imagine him laugh it up when we were getting beatdown and pouting.
 
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M

megablue

Heisman
Oct 2, 2012
16,263
16,775
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shaudyshaud said:
A player pouting after being scolded is probably normal on every team especially when the team has been disappointing
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Generally-speaking, when a player pouts ... that is in indication he cares more about himself than the team. Furthermore, being able to handle sharp criticism toughens you up mentally for the close games ... or, at least, it should.
 
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RalphDaltonFan

Heisman
Apr 3, 2002
60,267
41,763
113
calismyhero said:
Done with that dude. Should have never been allowed to come here. Lacks the intangibles, thinks only of himself. We don’t need guys like that.
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There are so many layers to this (Wheeler) thing that all suck:

1. If we're going to be told he's injured to the level he decided to an elective "minor" procedure due to knowing he'll not return, then it's on the program to protect him and just say "Sahvir won't be playing the rest of this season" to which he'd be able to walk out, participate on Senior Day and get applauded and thanked for his time by those who want to do so. That's on the program if that's the case.

2. If you believe that he was going to return and mouthpieces of the program floated out different takes on this, then why the hell would this elective procedure not take place when he knew he would be missing games so he'd be mending to play as they approach end of the season/Postseason?

3. Mixed messages are worthless and only add to frustration for all parties involved. If you want to lecture fanbase in how to behave/treat someone, then you need to protect the player. Nobody needs to know about specific details but you can protect your player by saying "He's injured, doubtful he will return this year" or "It's very unlikely he plays again this year but he's trying" rather than "We need fans to be like this--not that other stuff"

4. As an adult you have to be respectful of the team/program as much as an individual. If you respect the program/team, focus on them. Injured players get your attention but when talking about upcoming games, the game in front of you and the lead in is about a guy who hasn't done a damn thing on the court as the guys who did salvaged your season and put team in position to earn a bid to NCAA's after looking as if they were done....talk about THEM. Talk about how they are dealing with being beaten up, sore, and are fighting/toughing it out. When you embrace a guy who is not contributing at all in the midst of a winning streak that saved the season that is an absolute waste of time and slap in the face of the guys who are fighting through their own issues. Nobody feels great right about this time of year. Some people are just tougher and deal with things better than others.

Want fans to embrace the things you want? Not how life works. Fans are here for the uniform and program. They were fans before/during/will be long after you are part of it. So it's up to you to entertain/produce for them, not them to lower their standards and expectations to accommodate your ego. Calipari going after fans is asinine. Him lecturing people who pay to have him get $9M a year to win basketball games and aren't happy the program is trending downward for yearS as in plural, not a season here or there.....I mean at some point it's just time to wake the **** up and admit you aren't doing a good job or are incapable of being the guy to do the job.
 
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richbrookstomato

Heisman
Sep 13, 2003
23,905
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What happened to the days when a kid was scolded by his coach and he took it as an INSULT then worked his butt off to PROVE THE COACH WRONG???!!!!

What MOTIVATES these kids now days????

If it’s money, you can make MUCH MORE by improving your game!!
If it’s fame, you can receive MUCH MORE by working HARDER!!!
if it’s vindication, playing BETTER gives you MUCH MORE of it!!!

Pouting gives you NOTHING!!! Why does Cal bring kids in that aren’t DOGS????!!!!!
 
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LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

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track42 said:
Cheered on the team?Did I imagine him laugh it up when we were getting beatdown and pouting.
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Who knows what reason he was laughing. What we do know is that he did not, in fact, quit when he got benched for Cason, and he was, cheering on the team in every game.

It honestly feels like he might be done for the season, but damn, can we at least wait until it happens? We have no idea yet if he will be back or not.
 
LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

Heisman
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39,478
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113
SemperFiCat said:
Hate to be the grumpy old vet, but at 22, I was married, with a kid, and deployed to an active war zone. With guys younger than Toppin. The difference? We didn't act like itches by pouting and talking about internet meanies and mental health. I'm sorry, but at 22, you can either sack up or you don't. Sick of the age argument.
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That's just not this generation, though. Honestly that's not even recent generations.
 
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CatsnRoses

All-Conference
May 13, 2007
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He missed a couple of open 3s yesterday and immediately became afraid to shoot again. Just another example of the fragility of a lot of these guys.
 
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Rick Honcho

Rick Honcho

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Apr 19, 2011
1,503
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ralphdaltonfan said:
That said, one of Cal's weaknesses lately is he doesn't read the team he's coaching. This group isn't one you can assume they can handle success. Proven they can't over course of season. So anything that is/could be labeled a distraction, eliminate. Instead of talking up Vanderbilt leading into the game, you get a love letter to Sahvir Wheeler and everything was about Wheeler going into the damn game and that guy doesn't give 2 ***** about this program. Since he left the team, the fight returned. Was it great/perfect basketball? No. But it was a group that fought and salvaged a likely NCAA bid. But everything was "Sahvir" and personally I'm to the point, rather lose next 3 games then ever see that bloated hobbit play another game at Kentucky. Want to talk about his procedure? Timing of when he chose to do it was a sign of what he thinks of the program and Cal but there's Cal talking him up.

Read the room or leave it.
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I always wanted a head coach who could lead the room. Reading the room is for the assistants. I don't know anyone who has accused Calipari of being a leader.

Reasonable minds can differ.
 
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