One thing that probably needs to be emphasized about our two league games thus far is this: how you play is how you practice. So, get used to the short to intermediate passing game being a new staple of our offense this season. You don't throw the ball almost 100 times combined in your first two conference games if the passing game isn't a huge part of your offensive identity. One thing I also noticed tonight is that whenever we ran the ball we did not look crisp at all. The read on the read option took way too long, Shumpert jogged upfield looking for an opportunity to cut up but never did, etc. But one thing is for sure, this was not improvised. It was planned for this team by our staff. This all tells me that we are spending a lot more time in practice on the passing game than the running game. Is this a good thing for us long term? Probably not, but I'm not really sure. But this offense needs an identity. Maybe we have found it.
Run vs. Pass
- Thread starter Go Budaw
- Start date
dak simply isnt the same great runner we saw last season....and honestly, if he continues to pick apart defenses with the game on the line, i dont think it matters. as it turns out, dak did have a big metamorphosis this offseason and after the weight talk that ended up being stupid, it turns out, a dak that weighed roughly what he did last season looked much improved as a passer. so far this season, he has looked spectacular.
I'm convinced we will see Dak running more later in the season...keep him healthy for UAT and TSUN (where last season he was banged up for them)...Dan has learned it is a long season in the SEC West...He has adjusted accordingly.
last season, dak was 14 yards short of a 1000 yard rushing season averaging 76 ypg. he is currently on pace for 363 over a 12 game season at 30 ypg. it seems pretty clear that dak running the ball a significant amount of snaps is not in the gameplan, which may end up being a good move for his health and our success. its not really an effectiveness issue as it is a playcalling issue. hes no scrub trying to run the ball, but its apparently not in the cards as much this season. the lack of a secondary run thread most likely has a lot to do with that.
Dak showed tonight (stiff armed a DL and then steam rolled a DB on the same play) that the ability is still there. I honestly think Mullen is trying to make Dak a viable NFL QB prospect. I think he has seen what happened with Tebow and he wants to avoid that with Dak who has been constantly compared to Tebow. Couple that with that fact that Shumpert couldn't start for Starkville High right now and I think that's why we aren't running Dak as much. Plus, our O-Line seems to be much better at standing in the way of defenders and pass blocking than they are at pushing defenders off the LOS as run blockers. Maybe I'm reading too far into it, but that's why I think we aren't seeing Dak (or anybody else) running the ball as much as last year.
Here's the thing - we've all said this is the most talented bunch of WRs we've ever had, our most important / can't live without player on the team is Dak, and our veteran RBs are not great (I think Mullen doesn't trust Lee or Williams enough yet to give them meaningful snaps).
Given those facts... would you run the ball 60-70% of the time, with Dak getting at least a third of those carries?
Given those facts... would you run the ball 60-70% of the time, with Dak getting at least a third of those carries?
The "Mullen doesn't trust Lee or Williams" argument is dead. Surely you can see that. I'm not saying that Shump can't improve, but he's been unproductive in every game. It's time to make someone else the feature back and move Shump back to a late inning grinder.
Running it 60-70 percent of the time has its advantages. Throwing it 70 percent of the time is not a winning formula.
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Running it 60-70 percent of the time has its advantages. Throwing it 70 percent of the time is not a winning formula.
| Brandon Holloway | 5 | 42 | 8.4 | 0 | 14 |
| Dak Prescott | 6 | 14 | 2.3 | 0 | 8 |
| Ashton Shumpert | 5 | 5 | 1.0 | 0 | 4 |
| Gabe Myles | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 0 | 2 |
| TEAM | 21 | 56 | 2.7 | 0 | 14 |
<tbody>
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Somethings up with Dak`s mobility IMO. Don`t have a clue what it is but he appears to have lost a step (maybe two). We can still have a winning and maybe championship offense but Mullen has got to get his personnel in the right positions for us to mount some sort of running attack without exposing Dak to more beating.
A couple of Auburn fans last night said Dan is being really smart not running Dak as much this year. They said he didn't look like the same guy against Bama that he'd been when he beat Auburn. He took a beating those first six or eight games last year, and I think he's going to be a lot fresher for the back end of the schedule this year.
I guess if we can win without him getting beat up I'm for it. If Shumpert was better at finding the running lanes this offense would be amazing.
I guess if we can win without him getting beat up I'm for it. If Shumpert was better at finding the running lanes this offense would be amazing.
i hope this isnt true. mullen's first priority should be getting wins, not getting dak to the NFL. Dak got attention because we won and he was a top 2/3 round nfl draft prospect going into the season as well as being one of the top qb prospects. altering gameplans to improve draft stock might be one of the dumbest things a HBC could do for our team and his future as a head coach. lets just hope its all dak's decision. 125 + yards rushing vs lsu compared to -19, something is going on, its just a question of what.
Dak and Shump both look like they've gotten alot slower this year...... Oh well just keep winning !!
Yeah, I can see that... but I'm not the one making the inexplicable decision to continue playing Shumpert. I don't know how else to explain it.
And just tell the Patriots & Seahawks that throwing the ball 70% isn't a winning formula. One of those teams threw the ball 70% of the time and while rushing for about 50 yards in the super bowl, while the other ran it more than 50%.
But you said
he isn't the same great runner, alluding to him being incapable, not a game planning issue. What makes you think he's not capable of being an effective runner?
he isn't the same great runner, alluding to him being incapable, not a game planning issue. What makes you think he's not capable of being an effective runner?
You're right
You didn't allude. You straight up said it.
You're clearly are not understanding the question. Let's simplify this; you stated he cannot run the ball anymore. I asked why you thought that, bc he isn't being asked to run the ball by our staff to know this. I'm not sure if you have noticed, but our offense isn't anything like it was last year. We threw the ball 70% of the time, last night. Dak isn't being asked to run it, for whatever reason.
You didn't allude. You straight up said it.
You're clearly are not understanding the question. Let's simplify this; you stated he cannot run the ball anymore. I asked why you thought that, bc he isn't being asked to run the ball by our staff to know this. I'm not sure if you have noticed, but our offense isn't anything like it was last year. We threw the ball 70% of the time, last night. Dak isn't being asked to run it, for whatever reason.
simply not true. others have said that, but i have not. here are my posts in this thread:
i didnt allude to anything. 1/3 the production of last season would back up what i have stated.
dak simply isnt the same great runner we saw last season....and honestly, if he continues to pick apart defenses with the game on the line, i dont think it matters. as it turns out, dak did have a big metamorphosis this offseason and after the weight talk that ended up being stupid, it turns out, a dak that weighed roughly what he did last season looked much improved as a passer. so far this season, he has looked spectacular.
last season, dak was 14 yards short of a 1000 yard rushing season averaging 76 ypg. he is currently on pace for 363 over a 12 game season at 30 ypg. it seems pretty clear that dak running the ball a significant amount of snaps is not in the gameplan, which may end up being a good move for his health and our success. its not really an effectiveness issue as it is a playcalling issue. hes no scrub trying to run the ball, but its apparently not in the cards as much this season. the lack of a secondary run thread most likely has a lot to do with that.
i hope this isnt true. mullen's first priority should be getting wins, not getting dak to the NFL. Dak got attention because we won and he was a top 2/3 round nfl draft prospect going into the season as well as being one of the top qb prospects. altering gameplans to improve draft stock might be one of the dumbest things a HBC could do for our team and his future as a head coach. lets just hope its all dak's decision. 125 + yards rushing vs lsu compared to -19, something is going on, its just a question of what.
i have not said he cannot run the ball anymore. that is patently false. you have established that i did not allude to it, and i am establishing the fact that it wasnt said by providing my posts on the subject.
i didnt allude to anything. 1/3 the production of last season would back up what i have stated.
dak simply isnt the same great runner we saw last season....and honestly, if he continues to pick apart defenses with the game on the line, i dont think it matters. as it turns out, dak did have a big metamorphosis this offseason and after the weight talk that ended up being stupid, it turns out, a dak that weighed roughly what he did last season looked much improved as a passer. so far this season, he has looked spectacular.
last season, dak was 14 yards short of a 1000 yard rushing season averaging 76 ypg. he is currently on pace for 363 over a 12 game season at 30 ypg. it seems pretty clear that dak running the ball a significant amount of snaps is not in the gameplan, which may end up being a good move for his health and our success. its not really an effectiveness issue as it is a playcalling issue. hes no scrub trying to run the ball, but its apparently not in the cards as much this season. the lack of a secondary run thread most likely has a lot to do with that.
i hope this isnt true. mullen's first priority should be getting wins, not getting dak to the NFL. Dak got attention because we won and he was a top 2/3 round nfl draft prospect going into the season as well as being one of the top qb prospects. altering gameplans to improve draft stock might be one of the dumbest things a HBC could do for our team and his future as a head coach. lets just hope its all dak's decision. 125 + yards rushing vs lsu compared to -19, something is going on, its just a question of what.
i have not said he cannot run the ball anymore. that is patently false. you have established that i did not allude to it, and i am establishing the fact that it wasnt said by providing my posts on the subject.
I've been as frustrated as the next guy about Dak not running much this year, but when you stop and think about it, it does make some sense.
1. As exciting as it was to watch Fitz and Staley play well a couple weekends ago, our QB bench consists of two redshirt freshmen that have never played a snap against SEC competition. In other words, keeping Dak healthy is still a top priority
2. When comparing our WR corp against the RB stable, there really is no comparison. Maybe Lee, Williams, or even Holloway will be great one day, but when looking at the committee as a whole, they really don't come close to the talent we have at WR. Therefore, why not get the ball in the hands of where the majority of your talent exists?
3. I wanted to withhold judgment until I got to see Dak throw against a second SEC defense, but I'm now convinced. Dak has most definitely improved as a passer this year. He's #2 in the SEC in completion %, #4 in passing yards, he's one of only two QBs with no picks yet, and I thought that the pass protection was much improved on Saturday. In other words, I think that his numbers are only going to get better as the season progresses.
So once again, if anyone wants to argue that we need to replace Shump or at least get other runners more involved, I'm right there with you. But as far as the overall offensive gameplan goes, it's really weird not seeing us run more, I agree, but I can't claim that it's the wrong call based on what I've seen so far
1. As exciting as it was to watch Fitz and Staley play well a couple weekends ago, our QB bench consists of two redshirt freshmen that have never played a snap against SEC competition. In other words, keeping Dak healthy is still a top priority
2. When comparing our WR corp against the RB stable, there really is no comparison. Maybe Lee, Williams, or even Holloway will be great one day, but when looking at the committee as a whole, they really don't come close to the talent we have at WR. Therefore, why not get the ball in the hands of where the majority of your talent exists?
3. I wanted to withhold judgment until I got to see Dak throw against a second SEC defense, but I'm now convinced. Dak has most definitely improved as a passer this year. He's #2 in the SEC in completion %, #4 in passing yards, he's one of only two QBs with no picks yet, and I thought that the pass protection was much improved on Saturday. In other words, I think that his numbers are only going to get better as the season progresses.
So once again, if anyone wants to argue that we need to replace Shump or at least get other runners more involved, I'm right there with you. But as far as the overall offensive gameplan goes, it's really weird not seeing us run more, I agree, but I can't claim that it's the wrong call based on what I've seen so far
Is this real life?
You said "Dak isn't the same great runner we saw last year" in your very first post.
I questioned how you know this, because we aren't even running the same offense we did last year, to suggest he isn't.
He may very well not be the same, but nothing we've done on offense this year would lead me to believe that. Nothing. Our #1 and #2 RBs ran the ball for a combined total of 10 times Saturday. We threw it nearly 50. That isn't even close to the same offense as last year, so using last years stats to prove your point that he isn't a great runner anymore doesn't really do you any good.
Last year, through 4 games, we avg. nearly 50 rushing attempts a game. This year, 28. So how can you say that the two are comparable?
You said "Dak isn't the same great runner we saw last year" in your very first post.
I questioned how you know this, because we aren't even running the same offense we did last year, to suggest he isn't.
He may very well not be the same, but nothing we've done on offense this year would lead me to believe that. Nothing. Our #1 and #2 RBs ran the ball for a combined total of 10 times Saturday. We threw it nearly 50. That isn't even close to the same offense as last year, so using last years stats to prove your point that he isn't a great runner anymore doesn't really do you any good.
Last year, through 4 games, we avg. nearly 50 rushing attempts a game. This year, 28. So how can you say that the two are comparable?
i showed his "great" running stats vs the stats he has put up this year. they arent comparable. thus my statement is accurate. 1/3 the production is fact. dak is not the same great runner we saw last year because he isnt puting up the same numbers that he did last year. its as simple as that. perhaps you should create an unnecessary argument with someone that actually said he doesnt seem to have the ability.
How can you
compare stats from a season where we rush the ball nearly 50 times a game to a season where we rush it 28 times a game? They're not even close to similar.
compare stats from a season where we rush the ball nearly 50 times a game to a season where we rush it 28 times a game? They're not even close to similar.
Should have been a reply to Kurt: if you are asking me why i think he won't be as effective as last year, then my opinion in answering this three fold: deciding not to run, lack of blocking, coaching or a combination of the three. the WHY seems to be a big question on everyones mind.
No one mentioned JRob as part of the reason for Dak's running success
The read option requires that both options are viable. Right now handing it to the RB is not a concern for the defense so Dak is not being afforded the holes he had last year.
The read option requires that both options are viable. Right now handing it to the RB is not a concern for the defense so Dak is not being afforded the holes he had last year.
I guess I just
misinterpreted "dak simply isn't the same great runner we saw last season"....*****
misinterpreted "dak simply isn't the same great runner we saw last season"....*****
Except ..
It DID work against Auburn. State ran 62 plays, 41 passes (66%) & 21 runs (34%). We gained 56 yards rushing for a 2.7 yards/play, 0 TDs and 270 yards passing for a 6.6 yards/play (9.3 yards/completion) and 2 TDs, 0 INTs.
Auburn, like LSU, had a 'spy' who's sole responsibility was to shadow Dak so that he would not hurt them with his feet like he did last year. Meanwhile, Dak was able to pick apart the Auburn D with short and intermediate range passes at a 71% rate.
It DID work against Auburn. State ran 62 plays, 41 passes (66%) & 21 runs (34%). We gained 56 yards rushing for a 2.7 yards/play, 0 TDs and 270 yards passing for a 6.6 yards/play (9.3 yards/completion) and 2 TDs, 0 INTs.
Auburn, like LSU, had a 'spy' who's sole responsibility was to shadow Dak so that he would not hurt them with his feet like he did last year. Meanwhile, Dak was able to pick apart the Auburn D with short and intermediate range passes at a 71% rate.
I tend to agree with you, but I'm sure a lot of people on this forum don't. It was my opinion before the season started that Dak came back for the express purpose of becoming a viable NFL QB prospect.
I think
awe could still manage to get it to these guys while dialing it back on the 70% throwing...
awe could still manage to get it to these guys while dialing it back on the 70% throwing...
Almost as
perplexing as one watching our offense this season and coming up with the statement "dak simply isn't the same great runner" can be. Absolutes and whatnots, indeed.
perplexing as one watching our offense this season and coming up with the statement "dak simply isn't the same great runner" can be. Absolutes and whatnots, indeed.
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