Yall think the "1 Bee" Experiment Will Help w/ Experience in 2015?
- Thread starter Indndawg
- Start date
No.
Do you think getting blown out each time you're in is helpful?
Anyone on the "1B" who projects well also played alongside the "1A" at some point or another during rotations.
Market's injury and Eulls graduating hurts us more than anything else sans Dak leaving. Our most fundamentally sound DB and our most consistent player overall. Speculating as to who steps up as a first time starter next season is exactly that.
I'm game for giving players on the depth chart meaningful reps. If we sub all 11 again, all is lost.
Do you think getting blown out each time you're in is helpful?
Anyone on the "1B" who projects well also played alongside the "1A" at some point or another during rotations.
Market's injury and Eulls graduating hurts us more than anything else sans Dak leaving. Our most fundamentally sound DB and our most consistent player overall. Speculating as to who steps up as a first time starter next season is exactly that.
I'm game for giving players on the depth chart meaningful reps. If we sub all 11 again, all is lost.
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All the negative talk about it doesn't make sense. It's a damn good way of developing depth. I know the trendy and popular thing to do on this board is to cut everything down that Mullen does. I guess it's supposed to make everybody cool and anybody who doesn't go for it is a jeanspage guy.
I don't think I undercut everything Mullen does. But it's important to point out how much the "1B"s blew it this season.
I fully expect some of the freshmen and redshirts to get significant PT OVER some of the guys on the "1B", mostly secondary, so I don't see how that experiement helped.
Just out of curiosity, who do yall think specifically benefitted from the PT?
ETA: Cleveland is going to be a "1B" for his career. If the point is to get these guys experience so that they'll turn into Preston Smith's over the off-season, it should be minimized from all-11 to only guys who show promise.
I fully expect some of the freshmen and redshirts to get significant PT OVER some of the guys on the "1B", mostly secondary, so I don't see how that experiement helped.
Just out of curiosity, who do yall think specifically benefitted from the PT?
ETA: Cleveland is going to be a "1B" for his career. If the point is to get these guys experience so that they'll turn into Preston Smith's over the off-season, it should be minimized from all-11 to only guys who show promise.
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Absolutely
It sure can't hurt. No substitute for experience.
We have a large group that has been there and done that, on a 10-3 team,
All will be a year better off.
It sure can't hurt. No substitute for experience.
We have a large group that has been there and done that, on a 10-3 team,
All will be a year better off.
Nick James getting reps was extremely beneficial. Considering hj'd low amount of snaps his freshman season he's basically sat out two years and it did nothing but help his attitude issues. It's going to help out Richie Brown as well. He has arguably the biggest shoes to fill on the entire team and he got some much needed experience in big games. So thinking big game experience isn't going to help is ridiculous. It will help those two tremendously.
Absolutely, experience always helps, as long as the players are good enough to begin with, and in our case, most of them are. Perhaps a few are not bonafide SEC players, but they are few and far between. Experience helps even moreso with the role players on the team.
Experience is what all players need to develop. So do I believe playing two defenses helped us develop players for 2015? You bet! Anyone who believes a true freshman will come into the SEC, especially MSU at any position and take over does not get the fact that we are a developmental program. We wanted a JC safety for 2015. With Market out this position needs someone to step up. We do have a couple of good freshman at this position, but it will be tough for them if asked to play a lot. If Dak comes back the experience from players in the program several years especially line play will lead to another good year.
Respectfully disagree ...
Think that this staff understood that they were going to lose ~ 20 starters THIS year and did everything they could to get 'back-ups' on the field to be ready and able to fill that void in '15.
The ONLY way to gain game experience is to get time in a 'real game.' Yes, there were times when having the 1Bs in the game hurt BUT they now know just how fast the game is and what they need to do to get ready for '15.
Think that this staff understood that they were going to lose ~ 20 starters THIS year and did everything they could to get 'back-ups' on the field to be ready and able to fill that void in '15.
The ONLY way to gain game experience is to get time in a 'real game.' Yes, there were times when having the 1Bs in the game hurt BUT they now know just how fast the game is and what they need to do to get ready for '15.
I think it will absolutely be a plus in 2015. However, I'd prefer if we'd played more for 2014, a year we had a legit chance to win the conference, than 2015 where we will probably not.
Building depth and experience are great but when we have a chance to go to Atlanta you have to play your best and forget about next year. 1B's should not have played much against Bama.
Building depth and experience are great but when we have a chance to go to Atlanta you have to play your best and forget about next year. 1B's should not have played much against Bama.
Guys getting playing time always helps. Anyone who doesn't see this is clueless. We can argue over whether or not the whole 1B scheme was a good idea or not, but the fact that we got a lot of guys reps helps with the future.
I highly doubt that we played the 1Bs simply to build depth for subsequent years. As a matter of fact, I will go ahead and say that is completely untrue just using simple logic. I have no idea honestly why they did it, so I hope there is a good reason, but there again Mullen almost literally threw, rather than punted, away the Auburn game this year due to unfathomable logic so who really does know for sure.
When did I say this about Cleveland? I just don't think he's ever going to amount to a player who gets significant PT for us, so what's the ROI of us putting him in during critical times this season?
And I said the players who benefited from "1B" were already getting PT alongside starters, among them being James and both Browns. So mass subbing, the 1B system vs smartly plugging in depth players, was not beneficial. It hurt us pretty bad this season, actually.
Okay ...
I totally disagree.
THIS year, MSU will lose 8 of 11 starters on Defense. (Eulls, PJ Jones, Love, Preston Smith, Virges, Wells, and BOTH safties ... Hughes and Cox)
Any LOGICAL coach, that planned on being at State in '15, would want to get next year's players some REAL game experience BEFORE next season kicks off. You can 'agree' or 'disagree' with the 1B philosophy, BUT using SIMPLE LOGIC, it got game experience for next year's team.
I totally disagree.
THIS year, MSU will lose 8 of 11 starters on Defense. (Eulls, PJ Jones, Love, Preston Smith, Virges, Wells, and BOTH safties ... Hughes and Cox)
Any LOGICAL coach, that planned on being at State in '15, would want to get next year's players some REAL game experience BEFORE next season kicks off. You can 'agree' or 'disagree' with the 1B philosophy, BUT using SIMPLE LOGIC, it got game experience for next year's team.
Glad you're the expert on who shows promise and who doesn't. Love sucked as a nickel CB his sophomore year. He turned out to be arguably our best cover CB. I don't know how many times last year I read on here "Redmond Sux". He was playing in his first half-season of football. Next year he'll be drafted.
Maturity closes the gap between 3-stars and 5-stars. Maturity comes with getting PT. But Mullen isn't going to play someone if they are not ready (bigger than not showing promise). Christian Holmes comes to mind, Blaine Clausell being the exception. He took away PT from Morrow and Holloway for drops, JRob for his pass protection. He's not running a soup kitchen.
I don't think the experience did a lot to teach them skills, but it certainly improves morale. It's better than most of them riding the bench and only getting garbage time.
We built depth for THIS year. Running tempo on offense means more plays on defense. We knew we needed depth for the second-half of the season. The last 4 or 5 games we dropped the platoon approach and had 1A's playing with 1B's.
The by-product is that we have less drop-off in subsequent years.
Exactly. You ALWAYS play to win THIS year. You try to prepare players for next year as you can, but you NEVER sacrifice a win this year to develop players for next year.
Croom said otherwise. I was sitting in the room when he said it. "Winning is an art, I've studied it. You must have a plan, and the plan may cost you a win here, or a win there.....". I stopped listening at that point. This was before the 2007 season, so I supposed it appeared at the time that he knew what he was talking about, but in hindsight, what a rationalization that was, for his previous 3 seasons.
If he'd said that in 2004 when he was in his first year, it would have been a lot more defensible. Because you might sacrifice a win or two in the transition year to build a solid foundation for your program for the future. But on an ongoing basis, you play to win this year.
No. Depending on the circumstance. You throw away one year to win for three years. Dan set out to win in 2009. If he had played for 2010, State would have beaten AU and competed for the SEC West. Dennis Franchione did that in 2000 @Bama, he threw away a year and hit a home run the next.
Plus, it's never about "a win". It's about a season.
Not saying I disagree with your theory, but what exactly could Dan Mullen have done differently to prepare for 2010, sans getting Cam Newton, which he did everything possible to get? Redshirt Anthony Dixon, Kyle Love or Jamar Chaney? Played Chris Relf more? Relf turned in a pretty damn good season - about the best he was capable of.
State started a midget at QB and a DB named Toast. I doesn't get more obvious than that.
I think it's safe to assume the ones who showed promise we're the ones who played alongside starters at any given point (all the names you've listed so far). Just a guess.
It comes down to what another posted. Why were we building for the future this season? What was the ultimate goal of mass substitutions? We were a game away from being in the playoff mix. Our starters were unbelievable this season, but our backups were not. A lot of the 1B'ers stand to lose their jobs to newcomers, so in my opinion it was largely a huge waste. I don't think we can fairly judge it until 2 or 3 seasons from now though.
ETA: Love was not good. Bless his heart for working hard, staying out of trouble, and sticking in until the end, but he was a liability his entire career. Using him as a fine example of PT is not a good one. Clausell, yes. Love, no.
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Lee was a returning starter, not to mention that Chris Relf played significantly. Did you want Tyler Russell to play or something?
Toast and Damein Anderson were Torbush' doing. Halfway through the season, Mullen yanked Torbush' *** out of the pressbox and down onto the field, and made him start Corey Broomfield and Johnthan Banks (pulling his redshirt in the process). Fletcher Cox and Josh Boyd also played significant minutes in 2009.
I do not think you have a point here.
Toast and Damein Anderson were Torbush' doing. Halfway through the season, Mullen yanked Torbush' *** out of the pressbox and down onto the field, and made him start Corey Broomfield and Johnthan Banks (pulling his redshirt in the process). Fletcher Cox and Josh Boyd also played significant minutes in 2009.
I do not think you have a point here.
Are you serious? Lee was a returning starter from what? A 4-8 team? He was a great guy but no SEC QB. Lee really helped the team in 2009 - he accounted for one more victory than the year before. Lee single handedly lost the LSU game.
I must have missed those games with Relf playing significantly. Or we must have a different definition of significantly. He dominated in the EB but a few plays here and there for the rest of the year.
I don't care who the DC was and when the change happened, it was the wrong move. It didn't get state bowl eligible and took away from what could have been a truly special 2009.
I am not going to change your.mind and I think you just want to have the last word. So I am out. Maybe somebody else will believe that we couldn't have been better in 2010 by playing the 2010 team fulltime in 2009.
I must have missed those games with Relf playing significantly. Or we must have a different definition of significantly. He dominated in the EB but a few plays here and there for the rest of the year.
I don't care who the DC was and when the change happened, it was the wrong move. It didn't get state bowl eligible and took away from what could have been a truly special 2009.
I am not going to change your.mind and I think you just want to have the last word. So I am out. Maybe somebody else will believe that we couldn't have been better in 2010 by playing the 2010 team fulltime in 2009.
Playing Lee was playing for the future. Relf was in no way ready to play at the beginning of the season. When Mullen was pissed in the Houston game, he was going to pull Russell's redshirt. But ultimately he didn't want to spend a year of Russell's eligibility when he wasn't ready and the team wasn't good anyway. In hindsight with the way Relf developed, it might would have been good to get him more experience earlier, but Mullen also had to get players to buy in and learn how to win, and it's hard to do that while throwing games. Playing Banks and Broomfield earlier would have been good, but sometimes true freshmen are simply not ready at the beginning of the season. And trying to redshirt them was an attempt to do the best for the program long term, not just 2009 or 2010.
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