The Juzang fallacy

[Wunky]

I was listening to KSR today and they kept saying “who would you have sat so Juzang could play more? Quickley and Maxey? Nobody would have done that!”

Problem with that argument is Juzang didn’t have an issue with playing behind those guys as a freshman and waiting his turn. What he took issue with was being blatantly recruited over for the likes of Boston and Clarke. He saw the writing on the wall and didn’t want to be treated like Dante was this year. Who could blame him?

Ironically, wasn’t Mick Cronin the guy Cal publicly humiliated a few years back, saying something to the effect of “if I want your recruit, I’m going to take him”? I think he said “just understand, we eat first.” Now the kid turns out better than Boston and Clark combined. Cal ate first alright... problem was, he ate hemlock.

 

[wccat]

I agree. No player has a problem playing behind someone if they are better. But if they are not and are playing just because they were a 5-star then there is a problem. The other players in the team know whose better. They see it everyday at practice.

 

[Louis_Skunt]

Boston and Clarke were supposed to be much better, Juzang wouldve played significant minutes had he stayed.

Kids are told theyre the next Durant or LeBron every 10 mins all through high school, then they sit the bench 1 year and believe the coach is screwing them.

Juzang leaving sucks, but its nobody fault but his own. You going to sit Quickley to keep him happy? hell no.

 

[Yardeth]

Juzang could have stayed and competed, and would have played and hopefully played well. He might not have started but made his mark and be in the rotation. He just decided he wanted it else where. I liked him and wish him well.

 

[UK90]

I was listening to KSR today and they kept saying “who would you have sat so Juzang could play more? Quickley and Maxey? Nobody would have done that!”

Except Cal also played Khalil Whitney ahead of Juzang. I’d like to hear the KSR boys try to justify that one.

 

[ScottGreene22]

If CAL would play 4 guards this would not have been a problem.

 

[HagginHall1999]

I was listening to KSR today and they kept saying “who would you have sat so Juzang could play more? Quickley and Maxey? Nobody would have done that!”

Problem with that argument is Juzang didn’t have an issue with playing behind those guys as a freshman and waiting his turn. What he took issue with was being blatantly recruited over for the likes of Boston and Clarke. He saw the writing on the wall and didn’t want to be treated like Dante was this year. Who could blame him?

Ironically, wasn’t Mick Cronin the guy Cal publicly humiliated a few years back, saying something to the effect of “if I want your recruit, I’m going to take him”? I think he said “just understand, we eat first.” Now the kid turns out better than Boston and Clark combined. Cal ate first alright... problem was, he ate hemlock.

Cal wanted Juzang back. He left to be closer to family, simple as that.

What transfer has Cal lost that wasn't from the West Coast? I think it is only Quade....unless I am forgetting someone.

Baker, Juzang, Wiltjer, Lee, all West Coast guys who went back to West Coast to play.

 

[MakinMusic_rivals]

I’m sure there was a little of “I want to be closer to momma” with Juzang as well. Maybe Calipari screamed too loud at him. Who knows.

 

[catswin]

These posts make no sense. Juzang played 13 minutes or one third of every game last season on the number 6 team in the country. He had plenty of game time to prove himself and every second of practice to beat the other guys out.

Now people want our coach to not continue to recruit the best players so the reserves get a better chance to play the next season. That is how middle school sports work but not big time sports nor life either. It just happened this year that the main players were flops for the first time in Calipari’s UK career.

I’d definitely rather go to war with the studs that hurt the reserves’ feelings than the reserves.

 

[seccats04]

Except Cal also played Khalil Whitney ahead of Juzang. I’d like to hear the KSR boys try to justify that one.

Boom goes the dynamite! Best post of the day.

 

[seccats04]

These posts make no sense. Juzang played 13 minutes or one third of every game last season on the number 6 team in the country. He had plenty of game time to prove himself and every second of practice to beat the other guys out.

Now people want our coach to not continue to recruit the best players so the reserves get a better chance to play the next season. That is how middle school sports work but not big time sports nor life either. It just happened this year that the main players were flops for the first time in Calipari’s UK career.

I’d definitely rather go to war with the studs that hurt the reserves’ feelings than the reserves.

These players know Cal plays favorites, usually to the ones with more stars next to their name. You think Juzang wasn't pissed about Whitney playing over him when Whitney literally couldn't do anything well? Juzang was at least a threat to score. This is just one of many reasons these developmental guys don't stick around.

 

[K_TIME]

Except Cal also played Khalil Whitney ahead of Juzang. I’d like to hear the KSR boys try to justify that one.

Bingo...not in their DNA to get to heart of Cal baloney.

Plus...he did move closer back to home but seriously considered Nova....so it was about an opportunity to play that he didn't see at UK vs. other schools.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Complete nonsense. Look how many minutes allen played. Juzang was a much scrappier version. Had major minutes if he stayed.

 

[Yardeth]

These players know Cal plays favorites, usually to the ones with more stars next to their name. You think Juzang wasn't pissed about Whitney playing over him when Whitney literally couldn't do anything well? Juzang was at least a threat to score. This is just one of many reasons these developmental guys don't stick around.

But you didn’t see them in practice like Cal does daily? That is a quote from Cal not me, I think that is garbage.

 

[gwjenning]

Cal wanted Juzang back. He left to be closer to family, simple as that.

What transfer has Cal lost that wasn't from the West Coast? I think it is only Quade....unless I am forgetting someone.

Baker, Juzang, Wiltjer, Lee, all West Coast guys who went back to West Coast to play.

Charles Matthews, SKJ, and WAY TOO MANY just said screw it and basically transferred to the G League

 

[king of cali]

Boy did the tone of this board change...

When Juzang first said he was transferring many on this board labeled him a quitter, said he was afraid to compete, he wouldn’t be missed because Allen was next in line and he knew he wasn’t better than Allen. Now all of a sudden its because Calipari screwed him over. You guys need to make up your minds.

 

[kb22stang]

I was listening to KSR today and they kept saying “who would you have sat so Juzang could play more? Quickley and Maxey? Nobody would have done that!”

Problem with that argument is Juzang didn’t have an issue with playing behind those guys as a freshman and waiting his turn. What he took issue with was being blatantly recruited over for the likes of Boston and Clarke. He saw the writing on the wall and didn’t want to be treated like Dante was this year. Who could blame him?

Ironically, wasn’t Mick Cronin the guy Cal publicly humiliated a few years back, saying something to the effect of “if I want your recruit, I’m going to take him”? I think he said “just understand, we eat first.” Now the kid turns out better than Boston and Clark combined. Cal ate first alright... problem was, he ate hemlock.

How exactly do you know why he transferred? Stop stating your opinion as if its fact

 

[KyFaninNC]

How exactly do you know why he transferred? Stop stating your opinion as if its fact

Hello bass.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Charles Matthews, SKJ, and WAY TOO MANY just said screw it and basically transferred to the G League

G league doesn't count when we are talking about transfers.

Yeah forgot about them (SKJ and Matthews).

Matthews did go home to Michigan though.

 

[MakinMusic_rivals]

These posts make no sense. Juzang played 13 minutes or one third of every game last season on the number 6 team in the country. He had plenty of game time to prove himself and every second of practice to beat the other guys out.

Now people want our coach to not continue to recruit the best players so the reserves get a better chance to play the next season. That is how middle school sports work but not big time sports nor life either. It just happened this year that the main players were flops for the first time in Calipari’s UK career.

I’d definitely rather go to war with the studs that hurt the reserves’ feelings than the reserves.

Well said. Excellent post.

 

[UK90]

Cal wanted Juzang back. He left to be closer to family, simple as that.

What transfer has Cal lost that wasn't from the West Coast? I think it is only Quade....unless I am forgetting someone.

Baker, Juzang, Wiltjer, Lee, all West Coast guys who went back to West Coast to play.

Charles Matthews was from Chicago and Quade Green from Philly.

 

[HagginHall1999]

These posts make no sense. Juzang played 13 minutes or one third of every game last season on the number 6 team in the country. He had plenty of game time to prove himself and every second of practice to beat the other guys out.

Now people want our coach to not continue to recruit the best players so the reserves get a better chance to play the next season. That is how middle school sports work but not big time sports nor life either. It just happened this year that the main players were flops for the first time in Calipari’s UK career.

I’d definitely rather go to war with the studs that hurt the reserves’ feelings than the reserves.

You have to keep guys around but they have to want to be here too. Juzang didn't exactly light the world on fire last year. He's had a great tournament and he is pretty much a Junior in college at this point....so he progressed nicely as he probably would have done here.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Charles Matthews was from Chicago and Quade Green from Philly.

I knew where Quade was from, for some reason I though Matthews was from Michigan...maybe he was recruited by them out of HS?

Either way, the majority have been WC guys.

 

[MakinMusic_rivals]

Boy did the tone of this board change...

When Juzang first said he was transferring many on this board labeled him a quitter, said he was afraid to compete, he wouldn’t be missed because Allen was next in line and he knew he wasn’t better than Allen. Now all of a sudden its because Calipari screwed him over. You guys need to make up your minds.

So common among Kentucky fans. It really is child like in many ways.

 

[Wildcats1st]

I was listening to KSR today and they kept saying “who would you have sat so Juzang could play more? Quickley and Maxey? Nobody would have done that!”

Problem with that argument is Juzang didn’t have an issue with playing behind those guys as a freshman and waiting his turn. What he took issue with was being blatantly recruited over for the likes of Boston and Clarke. He saw the writing on the wall and didn’t want to be treated like Dante was this year. Who could blame him?

Ironically, wasn’t Mick Cronin the guy Cal publicly humiliated a few years back, saying something to the effect of “if I want your recruit, I’m going to take him”? I think he said “just understand, we eat first.” Now the kid turns out better than Boston and Clark combined. Cal ate first alright... problem was, he ate hemlock.

cal did with hagans what he did with Boston. Easily juzang could have eaten into hagans minutes. Another net negative who cal hitched his wagon to

 

[mebeblue2]

it was reported that JJ was so homesick that his grandfather would come and stay with him
i think the reports said that his grandfather lived in Virginia
the culture change from southern California to Lexington is huge

it sure sounds like he was very homesick

 

[FtWorthCat]

No one like shooters more than I do, but here are Juzang's stats last year: 12.4 mpg 37.7% fg 32.6% 3pt 83.3% ft 2.9 ppg 1.9 rpg 9/15 ast/to ratio. He had the worst stats in terms of production/efficiency of anyone that played regularly.

But maybe that was the problem, he didn't play "regular" minutes. Cal did him last year like he did Allen this year, put him in and yank him if he misses a shot. At least that's what it seemed like. Pitino's teams regularly went 10/11 deep and everyone basically knew how many minutes they were going to play for the most part. Pitino was a master at roster management. Hell we had a JV team, and even had Sheppard redshirt a year. It's a different ball game now though.

 

[fatguy87]

Juzang's transfer frustrated the board, just like every single premature departure of a non-star contributor.

Certainly, Juzang may prefer being on the west coast. It's a legitimate vector pulling him away. However, based on who we had coming in, Juzang transferring was not inconceivable. Freshman who aren't from Kentucky and don't get much playing time during their first season see a group of NBA prospects coming in playing their position. There will probably be another group coming in the following season. They can do the math and reasonably speculate that they may not get significant playing time until their senior season, if at all. Going back home and playing for a team that you can get immediate playing time is enticing.

 

[UK90]

I knew where Quade was from, for some reason I though Matthews was from Michigan...maybe he was recruited by them out of HS?

Either way, the majority have been WC guys.

No, from Chicago, but he did transfer to Michigan. He did really well there too, developed into a real nice player on that UM team that reached the national championship game a few years ago.

 

[FtWorthCat]

It will be interesting to see if Juzang stays at UCLA. His stock will likely never be higher than it is right now.

 

[HagginHall1999]

No, from Chicago, but he did transfer to Michigan. He did really well there too, developed into a real nice player on that UM team that reached the national championship game a few years ago.

Yep, I recall. Talented player.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Cal wanted Juzang back. He left to be closer to family, simple as that.

What transfer has Cal lost that wasn't from the West Coast? I think it is only Quade....unless I am forgetting someone.

Baker, Juzang, Wiltjer, Lee, all West Coast guys who went back to West Coast to play.

Edit:
@HagginHall1999 , I can't find it but I remember it being discussed. That said, until I find the link I concede the point that Juzang's homesickness was his primary reason to transfer. Thank you for sharing your link.

 

[tls]

It’s not clear how much PT JJ would have gotten this year if he stayed.

He certainly wouldn’t have been given any of Boston’s minutes. I’d guess if Clarke had stayed healthy he would not have played much at all. In fact DA or him definitely would not have played and maybe they’d both be transferring this year in that case.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Complete nonsense. Look how many minutes allen played. Juzang was a much scrappier version. Had major minutes if he stayed.

Allen should’ve gotten even more minutes than he did. Maybe he would’ve if Cal didn’t wanna take some player’s hearts away or some ****. What a joke.

 

[loublue22_rivals308424]

Cal recruits with zero concern towards the player on the roster. I'm not saying you have to turn down talent, but it has to be some part of your thinking, and for Cal it's just not.

 

[HagginHall1999]

No. It's not as simple as that. Did you even read what his dad said when he transferred? He said Johnny didn't want to "be looking over his shoulder" in reference to playing behind Boston and Clarke.

Why wouldn't you mention this part?

Please share, never saw those comments but I do recall reading both of these....all about homesickness and how Juzang choked up talking to Cal...how his family respected Cal and how Johnny was young.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.as...ohnny-juzang-transfer-according-to-his-father.

https://kentuckysportsradio.com/bas...out-sons-transfer-decision-with-the-athletic/

 

[HagginHall1999]

@Son_Of_Saul

One of the key reasons for the transfer? Homesickness.

Despite Juzang’s spike in minutes and production to close out the season, the Kentucky freshman couldn’t overcome his desire to return closer to home.

“When you think about being homesick, I’m not sure how he played at the end was much of a factor,” Juzang told Tucker of The Athletic. “Johnny was young, so it took him a little longer to adjust mentally and maturity-wise, and the fact that me and my wife both work and didn’t get out there near as much as we thought we might really made it tough.


“Still, it was a tough decision to leave, because Johnny loved the coaches, loved the teammates, loved the stage. I think he choked up a little bit having to tell Cal. It was emotional for him.”

Apparently for UK head coach John Calipari, it wasn’t an easy decision for him, either.

At the time of Juzang’s announcement, Calipari released a statement saying that the “option [to return to Kentucky] is always open to him,” a significant change of pace from most farewell messages he publishes regarding transfer decisions.

“I talked to Johnny last night along with his family and let him know if he wants to come back here that this option is always open to him,” Calipari said Friday afternoon. “Johnny had a great year and really got better as the season went on. I always enjoyed coaching him, and if there’s an opportunity to continue to do so, I would welcome it with open arms because Johnny is a great kid and a skilled basketball player with a bright future.”

At the end of the day, though, there are no hard feelings toward Calipari or the Kentucky basketball program. Juzang told Tucker that they will “always be thankful and appreciative” for their time in Lexington.

“We don’t have any hard feelings about anything,” Maxie Juzang told The Athletic. “Cal is a great coach. … I think Cal loves him and wants the best for him, regardless of what he does. That’s a relationship that is going to be great for years to come. … We’ll always be thankful and appreciative of him and that staff.”

 

[Crawfords Corner]

@Son_Of_Saul

One of the key reasons for the transfer? Homesickness.

Despite Juzang’s spike in minutes and production to close out the season, the Kentucky freshman couldn’t overcome his desire to return closer to home.

“When you think about being homesick, I’m not sure how he played at the end was much of a factor,” Juzang told Tucker of The Athletic. “Johnny was young, so it took him a little longer to adjust mentally and maturity-wise, and the fact that me and my wife both work and didn’t get out there near as much as we thought we might really made it tough.


“Still, it was a tough decision to leave, because Johnny loved the coaches, loved the teammates, loved the stage. I think he choked up a little bit having to tell Cal. It was emotional for him.”

Apparently for UK head coach John Calipari, it wasn’t an easy decision for him, either.

At the time of Juzang’s announcement, Calipari released a statement saying that the “option [to return to Kentucky] is always open to him,” a significant change of pace from most farewell messages he publishes regarding transfer decisions.

“I talked to Johnny last night along with his family and let him know if he wants to come back here that this option is always open to him,” Calipari said Friday afternoon. “Johnny had a great year and really got better as the season went on. I always enjoyed coaching him, and if there’s an opportunity to continue to do so, I would welcome it with open arms because Johnny is a great kid and a skilled basketball player with a bright future.”

At the end of the day, though, there are no hard feelings toward Calipari or the Kentucky basketball program. Juzang told Tucker that they will “always be thankful and appreciative” for their time in Lexington.

“We don’t have any hard feelings about anything,” Maxie Juzang told The Athletic. “Cal is a great coach. … I think Cal loves him and wants the best for him, regardless of what he does. That’s a relationship that is going to be great for years to come. … We’ll always be thankful and appreciative of him and that staff.”

UK fans know Johnny better than his own parents don't ya know.

 

[gwjenning]

G league doesn't count when we are talking about transfers.

Yeah forgot about them (SKJ and Matthews).

Matthews did go home to Michigan though.

G League is our biggest issue. We have too many guys leaving way too early and that’s the way Cal likes it.

After more bad years under Cal a few of you may finally catch on but doubtful.

You preached about being done with Cal if we have another mass exodus.
We already have 4 that bailed after a 9-16 season with June 3 months away.

Yet here you are!

 

[Lempface]

If Juzang stayed and played like he is at UCLA he would have played ample minutes this year. Kid either didn’t like coach, didn’t like the area, or saw that he could be the man somewhere else. I don’t fault him for doing what he thought was best for himself. You can’t make a player stay.